12 réponses à ce sujet

[EverlastingFantasy]

I`m wondering what the dialogue is like with a dwarf noble siding with bhelen. Does he ever admit what he did to you? Does he try to make things right and give you your name back in the family? Because if the dialogue isn`t interesting between him and my PC I`m just gonna go ahead and make harrrowmont king. I don`t care if harrowmont will make a sucky king I just don`t like Bhelen and would onley side with him if he appologizes somehow or gives me some kind of goodies n riches.

[GM23]

Well, he doesn't exactly apologize to you, but he does give you your name and rank back, thus making your possible son (if you bedded with the hookers during the origin story) from casteless to a noble cast Aeducan.

[bloodtallow]

I found the "sisterly" (dwarven noble female) dialogue with Bhelen most interesting, and if you want to play up the sibling rivalry bit again, you can be quite snarky to him as you're helping him out. It also gave me an interesting insight into just how paranoid Bhelen was/is, and to how murky are the waters of Orzammar politics. But does he truly make things right between the two of you? Not really. He is Bhelen, after all...

[ejoslin]

I actually sided with Bhelen on my dwarf noble. I respected him for out playing me. But more than that -- Harrowmont was very upset over my character being railroaded. But he could not get the Assembly to side with him, even though tradition and laws were on my DNF's side. My DNF wanted a strong king for Orzammar, and Harrowmont showed her exactly how weak a leader he was.



if the man couldn't sway the assembly to follow the laws and traditions of Orzammar, what kind of king could he make? It was a bitter pill, though. But my DNF wanted what was best for Orzammar and for fighting the blight, and not throw away the future of her race for her revenge. She agreed that if things kept going the way they were, Orzammar would fall.

[Majere613]

Hmph. My Dwarflar smacked lil' brother into the floor so hard his teeth will be dug up two centuries later and mistaken for diamonds and shoved her boot so far up his back passage that he was tasting insole. And her only regret was that the snivelling little git didn't get back up so she could do it again.



Most of my other toons side with him since he probably is what Orzammar needs- and for that matter, deserves. But no way in hell was a character who knew his true colours going to do that- I'd be expecting Loghain MkII at any moment.

[Eumerin]

CommandoShepard wrote...

So, does siding with Bhelen fix the bug where no matter if your son is supposed to be noble, the quest log still says that he remains casteless?

I had a dwarf who did sleep with Mardy and later sided with Harrowmont, who then said that my dwarf's son will be accepted into his house, yet the quest log says the son is doomed to be casteless.

Is that what that quest is all about?  I have an *elf* that has a "completed" (that I don't remember working on) quest in his quest log informing him that his son won't be noble.  I think it's fair to say that there's a definite bug with that quest.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

Bhelen is hands down the better leader in my opinion, he's like the Julius Caesar of the dwarf world.

[CcDohl2]

I was annoyed that I couldn't crown myself king. A third dialogue option when you have the crown and then choosing one of the two as a reagent and then some slightly different ending text and BAM, your noble is king again.

[Bartlebyfinch]

I've done both the Dwarf Noble and Dwarf Commoner playthrough. I obviously sided with Bhelen on my casteless (no reason whatsoever not to). On my Noble, though, I played through once as a Harrowmont supporter, and then went back to a save point and played through as a Bhelen supporter. After having done both, I can actually see a reason why a Dwarf Noble might side with Bhelen (from a character point of view). You would have to have envisioned your Dwarf Noble as a somewhat jaded political player who was enough of an idealist that he/she really did want what was best for Orzamar. I think that a true "paragon" Dwarf Noble (who was shocked at the suggestion of preemptively assassinating his/her older brother during the prologue) would be too angry and disgusted with Bhelen to ever side with him, while a truly nasty character would be petty enough to want revenge on Bhelen more than what was best for Orzammar.



In my opinion, the Dwarf storylines are the two best in the game. This is largely because Orzammar is such a deep, well-constructed area. More than that, though, it is because the two Dwarf origin stories combine in so many wonderfully ambiguous ways. At the end of the game, you discover that Bhelen is the best choice for the good of Orzammar. He leads (or drags) the Dwarves towards a new era while Harrowmont is just more of the same old same old. Other than this one piece of definitive information, though, a LOT of what is going on in Orzammar is up to player interpretation and/or character point of view.



Out of all of the different ways of looking at the Orzammar situation, here is my favorite:



The Dwarf Noble character is a walking embodiment of everything that is wrong with Orzammar. If you play one, you know all too well that you can choose dialogue choices during your origin that set you up to be little more than a pompous, pampered prima donna with an enormous sense of entitlement. You think everyone lower in rank than you exists only to serve you, and you are completely on board with the idea of killing your older brother so you can become king. But... you forgot to look out for little brother Bhelen... weak Bhelen, stupid Bhelen, the Bhelen you never dreamed would get the better of you. Bhelen is a scumbag, but he isn't nearly as bad as you. He plays the game because he has to, and he enjoys it as well. However, he is also much more intelligent than most people realize, and he truly is something of a visionary. He is a complete and utter bastard, but he is a bastard whose convictions (unlike the PC's) extend to more than his own personal welfare.



This particular way of looking at the Dwarf Noble background fits perfectly with the Dwarf Commoner story, and makes siding with Bhelen a much more appealing choice. Truth be told, I like the commoner origin better than the Noble origin. Both were very good, but I am a "rags to riches" fan, and I always like it when I'm playing a character who is able to rise up from nothing to greatness. I enjoyed the grittiness of the casteless orign as well.

[Patriciachr34]

CommandoShepard wrote...

Also, Bhelen is engaged to your sister if you are a dwarf commoner, so why wouldn't you side with him.

Well, from a character (dwarf commoner) perspective, after finding out more about Behlen's nature I couldn't be sure that he would actually honor the treaty.  I found myself siding with Harrowmont (despite my sister's predicament) simply because I knew he would give the grey wardens the armies they requested.  It was a pivotal decision point for my character and when she truly became a grey warden.