70 réponses à ce sujet

[Wintermist]

There's no honest reason to limit you this way when you think about it. Why does there have to be a universal cooldown at all?

All it does is limit the way YOU can play the game, and isn't the whole point of a RPG to let you play it as freely as possible? Do you want to cast Pull then Warp in close succession, by all means.

I just can't see why they need to limit the way you play. Pretty soon we can perhaps play the whole game by just using 1 button.

On top of that I also dislike the removal of all the skills from Mass Effect 1, I really really enjoyed having many skills, it gave me multiple ways to solve a situation.

Modifié par Wintermist, 08 février 2010 - 01:59 .

[Odd Hermit]

Wintermist wrote...

There's no honest reason to limit you this way when you think about it. Why does there have to be a universal cooldown at all?

All it does is limit the way YOU can play the game, and isn't the whole point of a RPG to let you play it as freely as possible? Do you want to cast Pull then Warp in close succession, by all means.

I just can't see why they need to limit the way you play. Pretty soon we can perhaps play the whole game by just using 1 button.

On top of that I also dislike the removal of all the skills from Mass Effect 1, I really really enjoyed having many skills, it gavbe me multiple ways to solve a situation.

Combat needs to be somewhat challenging to be fun for any extended period of time, so some limits are needed. But I certainly can agree that the universal CD simplifies combat and limits the player in a negative way.

[Aratham Darksight]

Wintermist wrote...

There's no honest reason to limit you this way when you think about it. Why does there have to be a universal cooldown at all?

All it does is limit the way YOU can play the game, and isn't the whole point of a RPG to let you play it as freely as possible? Do you want to cast Pull then Warp in close succession, by all means.

Why do there need to be limited hit points? Why aren't you free to take as many shots as you feel appropriate before dying?
Why does there need to be money? Why aren't you free to have any equipment and upgrade you want from the beginning?

Without some rules, an RPG ceases to be a game. The old system also restricted you, it just did so in a different way. You were not free to throw two different targets in relatively quick succession. Now you can do that, but you can't do two moves instantly after each other.

On top of that I also dislike the removal of all the skills from Mass Effect 1, I really really enjoyed having many skills, it gave me multiple ways to solve a situation.

Such as?

[termokanden]

I think they also made Warp too universal. It kills anything. It goes through barriers, shields, armor and health. The only place you really need other crowd control is for husks (and then you can just spam Singularity over and over again).

[Akimb0]

Odd Hermit wrote...

I personally hate it, just wondering if anyone feels differently and why.
Seems like all it does is take potential for tactical use of abilities out of the picture.

Slows combat down while improving nothing.

[Wintermist]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

There's no honest reason to limit you this way when you think about it. Why does there have to be a universal cooldown at all?

All it does is limit the way YOU can play the game, and isn't the whole point of a RPG to let you play it as freely as possible? Do you want to cast Pull then Warp in close succession, by all means.

Why do there need to be limited hit points? Why aren't you free to take as many shots as you feel appropriate before dying?
Why does there need to be money? Why aren't you free to have any equipment and upgrade you want from the beginning?

Without some rules, an RPG ceases to be a game. The old system also restricted you, it just did so in a different way. You were not free to throw two different targets in relatively quick succession. Now you can do that, but you can't do two moves instantly after each other.

On top of that I also dislike the removal of all the skills from Mass Effect 1, I really really enjoyed having many skills, it gave me multiple ways to solve a situation.

Such as?

Wow, are you really serious saying that?

[Aratham Darksight]

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, are you really serious saying that?

No, my cat fell on the keyboard and it accidentally resulted in that string of characters.

Are you planning to respond or at least explain what about my cat's post has you so baffled?

[Wintermist]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Wow, are you really serious saying that?

No, my cat fell on the keyboard and it accidentally resulted in that string of characters.

Are you planning to respond or at least explain what about my cat's post has you so baffled?

You post was so ridiculous I wasn't sure.

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Why do there need to be limited hit points? Why aren't you free to take as many shots as you feel appropriate before dying?
Why does there need to be money? Why aren't you free to have any equipment and upgrade you want from the beginning?

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

[termokanden]

Hmm. Perhaps your cat can teach my cat how to spell.



Some abilities are missing (like the weapon specials), but then new ones have been added. I don't have any problem with that, and I even think some of the new ones are pretty cool.



The problem I have is that you don't need a billion different disables when Singularity does everything you need already. With the short universal cooldown, I'd rather use Singularity two times than use Singularity and Pull Field (due to the fact that Singularity works on more target types).

[Funkenstein23]

I didnt mind it. I feel like it would have been a bit too easy to spam powers if it weren't in the game.

[Warlokki]

Personally i find ME2 to be better in almost all gameplay related ways. In ME 1 i spammed the powers... waited for a longish time... spammed the powers again...
Now one needs to think more what to use. Overlapping powers and some other things do however cause a bit... dunno, some things feel a bit unnecessary. Overall the system is better than ME1's.
And yes, i mean i like the system.

Modifié par Warlokki, 08 février 2010 - 02:21 .

[termokanden]

Funkenstein23: I didn't say I want it removed. I just want something else instead that encourages tactics rather than using the same thing over and over again. You just shouldn't get away with killing everything with Warp.



Warlokki: I think you needed a better amp in ME1 then. You couldn't spam the same power over and over, but you'd always have something to cast, no waiting involved.

[Wintermist]

There would still be the cooldown for the ability you just used, so you couldn't spam it anymore than you can now. The difference would be that you could throw a Singularity, and then continue to trow another ability as well.

[Mister Mage]

Wintermist wrote...

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

Your slobbering moron point was that a universal cooldown restricts the way you play.  Baby wants his bottle, I know, cry a bit and try to listen.  RPGs have rules.  Games as a whole have rules.  Rules restrict the player and the way they play the game.  Shepard can't fly.  Why can't he fly?  That restricts the way I play.  Why is there health?  it restricts the way you play.  Why have shields, why have different classes have different abilities?

You're going to have to do better than "The new rule restricts me" if you're going to make any sense.  OF COURSE it restricts you.  It's a RULE.

[Wintermist]

Mister Mage wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

Your slobbering moron point was that a universal cooldown restricts the way you play.  Baby wants his bottle, I know, cry a bit and try to listen.  RPGs have rules.  Games as a whole have rules.  Rules restrict the player and the way they play the game.  Shepard can't fly.  Why can't he fly?  That restricts the way I play.  Why is there health?  it restricts the way you play.  Why have shields, why have different classes have different abilities?

You're going to have to do better than "The new rule restricts me" if you're going to make any sense.  OF COURSE it restricts you.  It's a RULE.

It's a rule I don't like, and apparantly others do not like either. So, when we voice how we feel it limits your gameplay that's somehow offensive to you? Just say you prefer to have it the way it is, and we who preferred it the way ti was in ME1 can say so.

[termokanden]

I think the point is getting lost in the personal attacks now. I have yet to see a reply to my claim that the universal cooldown makes combat less tactical, but rather boring and simple.

[kusvuari]

I have no problem with the cool down to be honest, I think it would be better if the cool down was less for the other skills though



i.e I use warp, the cool down is 6 seconds or what ever. I think it would be better if the cool down for other abilities was shorter (maybe 3 or 4)

[Aratham Darksight]

Wintermist wrote...

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Why do there need to be limited hit points? Why aren't you free to take as many shots as you feel appropriate before dying?
Why does there need to be money? Why aren't you free to have any equipment and upgrade you want from the beginning?

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

You asked why a game mechanic prevented you from doing whatever you liked. As long as whatever you're playing has any claim to be called a "game", you'll be limited in some way. So appealing to FREEDOM! as an argument against some game mechanic makes about as much sense as my cat's examples. It's not like the old system was any more logical or less arbitrary. Why is every biotic skill you know on a separate cooldown? Does your amp come with spam filters?

[EternalWolfe]

I liked being able to combine powers in the first game, but I can see why they added the universal(truthfully, most of my skills recharge so fast later in the game, it almost makes no difference, my infiltrator got of 3 incinerates before my squad could fire again).



On another thread(can't remember what it was called) somebody suggested a system for bioitcs/tech that worked something like the overheat system from teh first game. Each ability would push up the 'heat' by a certain amount, and if it was too low, you'd have to wait for the bar to dissapate before firing again. This would let you quick fire multiple abilities when you had to, but wouldn't let you spam them all day. I rather like the sound of that system.

[Akimb0]

Warlokki wrote...

Personally i find ME2 to be better in almost all gameplay related ways. In ME 1 i spammed the powers... waited for a longish time... spammed the powers again...
Now one needs to think more what to use.

Really? I only have two powers to use on my Infiltrator. Incinerate and my bonus talent. (Currently Slam.) So now I use one power, wait for a longish time, use another power. Remembering of course that for most of the fight, most of my powers don't even work due to shields or armour.

[Wintermist]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Why do there need to be limited hit points? Why aren't you free to take as many shots as you feel appropriate before dying?
Why does there need to be money? Why aren't you free to have any equipment and upgrade you want from the beginning?

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

You asked why a game mechanic prevented you from doing whatever you liked. As long as whatever you're playing has any claim to be called a "game", you'll be limited in some way. So appealing to FREEDOM! as an argument against some game mechanic makes about as much sense as my cat's examples. It's not like the old system was any more logical or less arbitrary. Why is every biotic skill you know on a separate cooldown? Does your amp come with spam filters?

But the old system did in fact give you more FREEDOM. No?

[termokanden]

EternalWolfe:

Yeah that makes it mana, more or less, but with a quick regen. That would be quite good I think.

The thing is, I would prefer to fire off multiple biotics and spend a little while shooting rather than having 3-4 seconds to do nothing or shoot between biotics. I think that would already make adepts a lot more fun to play.

Modifié par termokanden, 08 février 2010 - 02:34 .

[Wintermist]

EternalWolfe wrote...

I liked being able to combine powers in the first game, but I can see why they added the universal(truthfully, most of my skills recharge so fast later in the game, it almost makes no difference, my infiltrator got of 3 incinerates before my squad could fire again).

On another thread(can't remember what it was called) somebody suggested a system for bioitcs/tech that worked something like the overheat system from teh first game. Each ability would push up the 'heat' by a certain amount, and if it was too low, you'd have to wait for the bar to dissapate before firing again. This would let you quick fire multiple abilities when you had to, but wouldn't let you spam them all day. I rather like the sound of that system.

Yeah it's close to something I've been thinking about as well. Basically it's a mana bar for biotics. Then you'd decide for yourself how you'd want to spend your power.

Do you cast everything you have and be left empty until you regain strength, or do you use a constant stream of abilities to preserve power.

But in the end I figured most people would rather complain about it "BIOTICS ARE NO FRIGGING MAGES" so I kept quiet about it.

[Mister Mage]

Wintermist wrote...

Mister Mage wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

If this is by any means comparable to removing the global cooldown, then hell, you're a frakking idiot.

Your slobbering moron point was that a universal cooldown restricts the way you play.  Baby wants his bottle, I know, cry a bit and try to listen.  RPGs have rules.  Games as a whole have rules.  Rules restrict the player and the way they play the game.  Shepard can't fly.  Why can't he fly?  That restricts the way I play.  Why is there health?  it restricts the way you play.  Why have shields, why have different classes have different abilities?

You're going to have to do better than "The new rule restricts me" if you're going to make any sense.  OF COURSE it restricts you.  It's a RULE.

It's a rule I don't like, and apparantly others do not like either. So, when we voice how we feel it limits your gameplay that's somehow offensive to you? Just say you prefer to have it the way it is, and we who preferred it the way ti was in ME1 can say so.

Except you didn't say "It's a change, I don't like it."  You said it's restrictive.  That statement is stupid, considering a game(and ESPECIALLY an RPG) is built on a ruleset of restrictions.

ME1 was an easy game.  If you were level 60, you could walk through Insanity without any problems.  The only difficulty was made by the player, if they intentionally gimped themselves, and if they took on Mako enemies on foot.  Even then, hardly a worthy challenge.

The new rules aren't quite perfect.  Rather than removing universal cooldown, though, I'd gimp some powers and empower others.  Balance them out so that there is a REASON and a NEED to use different powers(on ALL difficulty settings).  Split Warp into 2-3 different powers, or weaken it.

[termokanden]

Mister Mage wrote...

The new rules aren't quite perfect.  Rather than removing universal cooldown, though, I'd gimp some powers and empower others.  Balance them out so that there is a REASON and a NEED to use different powers(on ALL difficulty settings).  Split Warp into 2-3 different powers, or weaken it.

I don't entirely disagree, but if you nerf Warp for example and leave the universal cooldown where it is, you'd have the same situation with an even slower and more boring gameplay for adepts.

I think the universal cooldown makes sense for classes that do not only focus on using powers. Adepts focus on powers, therefore they are too restricted by the universal cooldown.