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[Arde5643]

Any words on the viability of shockwave for adepts, Roxlimn?



That seems to be overall the most useless skill for an adept.

[Roxlimn]

Arde5643:



I'm afraid not. I have no experience with Shockwave other than using it from Jack. Hardcore is my fave difficulty level, but I do testing on Insanity on save points (I usually save at two points in most missions for testing purposes).



From my use on Jack, it seems to be pretty effective, but only if you have a way to strip defenses en masse. Dual Area Reave, Dual Area Overload, or liberal use of Warp Explosions are needed to set up Shockwave abuse. It's also harder to leverage correctly. I don't have any problem sending Jack to risky portions of the battlefield since I can revive her easily, but I'm not so good at sizing up the battlefield from up close. You might have a better time if you have a better tactical sense.



I'm trying out Shockwave on my Vanguard right now (on Hardcore, natch), but I'm finding the Charge-Shogun play to be a little boring. Either you wipe the enemy completely, or you're dead. Not my style.

[Deflagratio]

Shockwave is your best friend against Husks. One shot with the Carnifax (Upgrades willing and inferno ammo) will strip armor. If there's a husk group coming at you, shoot each one once, then Throw a shockwave. Biotic power instantly kills them. Great way to save ammo.



If you're using Charge exclusively for Charge-Rush on Vanguard, you're DOING IT WRONG. Charge is better for outflanking the enemy than even TacCloak. You just have to be smart. There is also no better tactical withdraw. Proper Charging means selecting your charge patsy. Particularly when taking on Primes or Ymir's. A specific point comes to mind, on Haestrom where the prime falls from the sky in an ambush. This is a particularly nasty firefight for the vanguard class. However if you can save a rear low-threat geth, when the Prime closes in on you, you can instantly charge out of danger, take out the lower-threat geth behind, and find plenty more cover.

[Roxlimn]

Deflagratio:



I didn't say I was having all that difficult a time with it, or that it wasn't effective. I said that I didn't find the play all that fun. I'm just not a Vanguard type of guy, apparently.

[Arde5643]

What's your favorite play build, Roxlimn?



I find the adept shotgun style to be one of the most fun build I've played so far - it's not as optimal as the usual AR adept, and definitely not as aggressive as the vanguard.

But I like that it can play both the usual bunker down game with singularity/pull - warp detonation/throw or CQC to clean up with lots of throw and some singularities thrown in.



Engineers are also very fun, although I probably should've tried sniper engineer instead of AR engineer for a bit more variety.

[Roxlimn]

Arde5643:



I like AR Adepts the best because I don't have to keep reloading and resaving from the Collector Ambush mission. If I want snipery action, I load up Vindicator. If I want close up SMG-ish action, Avenger (or Geth Pulse Rifle once I get that). It gives me options.



That said, I've also tried Sniper Adept, and that was pretty fun combo'd with Heavy Warp+Heavy Throw. It plays like a Power Sniper. Took out Wasea before she even had a chance to relocate through to her secondary area.



For powers I tend to fool around a bit so I don't have a single favorite play build. Sometimes, I evolve Warp, and I tend to like different evolutions based on location. For large locations with spread out enemies, I like Unstable. For closed area with lots of walls for bouncing the enemies around, I like Heavy. Sometimes, I don't even evolve it. Rank 2 Warp does 140 damage - only 60 damage less than Heavy, which costs 7 points more (whereas Rank 2 Warp only costs 3 points!).



For Throw, I like Throw Field for areas where I have enemies in closed areas, bunched up, or insta-killed enemies. For the Suicide Mission and similar kinds of areas, I like Heavy Throw. Pull I generally leave at 1 point, but when I'm feeling like seeing a lot of floating enemies, I max it to Pull Field.



I generally don't like leveling Singularity since I don't use it much. It's primarily for locking down Elites while I go have fun with the mooks. Pull-Warp, Pull-Throw, or WE-Throw spam are my most common MOs. Sing's really a power I use because I feel obliged to have to use it, not because I like to. Of course, it makes encounters much easier, but it's not as flashy as I would have liked.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

I found the Adept playing different from ME1 play as well, but that was obvious enough from the videos demo-ing Adept play. Moreover, it's more interesting to use tactics than it is to just shut down encounters from the get-go. (And you can always turn down difficulty if you don't want to use tactics).

I dunno. It just seems to me that too many players just don't like experimentation and observation but rely purely on hype and popular opinion.

Nah, most players know very well what strips protection. Most adept players just don't want to be shooting their guns while playing the "biotic master."  Oh, and warp does do a pretty decent job stripping shields when you have a little upgrade behind it. Problem is it is a bit too slow in casting to do the job since most of the adept's biotics don't really work until defenses are stripped.

But keep on putting out your hype and putting down those of differing opinions.

I like AR Adepts the best because I don't have to keep reloading and resaving from the Collector Ambush mission.

That says it all. "Constant reloading" and assault rifle on the biotic master.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 28 février 2010 - 01:33 .

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:

Nah, most players know very well what strips protection. Most adept players just don't want to be shooting their guns while playing the "biotic master." Oh, and warp does do a pretty decent job stripping shields when you have a little upgrade behind it. Problem is it is a bit too slow in casting to do the job since most of the adept's biotics don't really work until defenses are stripped.



But keep on putting out your hype and putting down those of differing opinions.

I get the distinct impression that most Adept players who are posting these days enjoy playing the Adept. It's just that too many players (like you) still rely on wrong impression and wrong facts. I don't put down opinions. I dispel myth and confirm fact.



For instance, you say that Warp does "a pretty good job" stripping Shields. So then. What's a "pretty good job?" Will it strip Shields on Hardcore in one go at full upgrades? Two applications? How's Warp on YMIR Shields? "Pretty good job" is a useless qualifier. If you want to be taken seriously, give us something we can use.



I don't use hype. I tell people exactly what to use, when to use them, and for what. People who are convinced by me about what I'm talking about are so convinced because what I say is replicable and reliable. There is no hype.

That says it all. "Constant reloading" and assault rifle on the biotic master.

Constant reloading from the Collector Ambush Mission is the only way you can change your bonus weapon choice. If you know any other way, please indicate how to do it.

[baller7345]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

I found the Adept playing different from ME1 play as well, but that was obvious enough from the videos demo-ing Adept play. Moreover, it's more interesting to use tactics than it is to just shut down encounters from the get-go. (And you can always turn down difficulty if you don't want to use tactics).

I dunno. It just seems to me that too many players just don't like experimentation and observation but rely purely on hype and popular opinion.

Nah, most players know very well what strips protection. Most adept players just don't want to be shooting their guns while playing the "biotic master."  Oh, and warp does do a pretty decent job stripping shields when you have a little upgrade behind it. Problem is it is a bit too slow in casting to do the job since most of the adept's biotics don't really work until defenses are stripped.

But keep on putting out your hype and putting down those of differing opinions.

I like AR Adepts the best because I don't have to keep reloading and resaving from the Collector Ambush mission.

That says it all. "Constant reloading" and assault rifle on the biotic master.

There have been at least 2 videos showing that no class "has to shoot."  If you don't want to shoot then don't because its possible.  It may be a little slower but that shouldn't really be that big of a deal.  As long as speed isn't your main concern then not shooting isn't that hard.  of course you get a bonus weapon which leads you toward shooting but it doesn't mean that you have too.

In the ME1 the adept had a similar thing to having an extra weapon in the form of marksman.  Marksman allowed you to do more damage than you ever could by just using biotics.  Because of this I actually shoot much less in ME2 than I did in ME1.  Being able to take a bonus weapon talent also fall into this.

I know that you can't choose not to take an extra weapon in ME2 but there is nothing forcing you to use it.

[Atheist Peace]

Grumpy Old Wizard



"Nah, most players know very well what strips protection. Most adept players just don't want to be shooting their guns while playing the "biotic master." "



It's clear you are not a fan of the way biotic's work in ME2, but it's pretty arrogant to suggest that "most" people don't like something just because you don't.



"But keep on putting out your hype and putting down those of differing opinions."



Its not "hype" to call people on bs, the fact of the matter is if it was't for people like Roxlimn posting in these thread's most adepts coming to these forums for information would still believe they should spam only warp and that singularity doesnt work on protected enemies.



baller7345



"In the ME1 the adept had a similar thing to having an extra weapon in the form of marksman. Marksman allowed you to do more damage than you ever could by just using biotics. Because of this I actually shoot much less in ME2 than I did in ME1."



Yeah i agree, its partly why i find these complaint's so odd. Sure an adept didn't have too shoot in ME1 if they didnt want too, but it did speed things up, pretty much exactly how it works in ME2. My experience is similiar to yours, I find myself firing my weapons surprisingly little as an adept in ME2.

[DarthCaine]

Most boring class ever?

That title belongs to the Soldier

[Arde5643]

Unfortunately too true - there aren't really a lot of ways for playing the soldier while with the other classes, even just different weapon specializations can change how you approach the battlefields a great deal.

[mcsupersport]

I started out on Adepts in ME1, imported to ME2 at normal level, and used mostly pull and throw, with some warp mixed in. As I got better during the game, I figured out the Warp Explosion, and moved on to a second game in normal as an adept, using mostly pull, and Warp with some singularity mixed in, and I got better. So now I am playing on Hardcore, and I have currently Heavy Warp, Heavy Singularity, one pt in Throw, two in pull(only because I wanted Shockwave), three levels of Shockwave, and Tungsten AP. Yeah I have AR as my bonus weapon, but generally I don't use weapons except in very specific fights. My main companion is Grunt with Inferno Ammo, and a mix of other characters depending on mission.



I LOVE singularity, because it damages shields, holds Armored opponents, and lifts unprotected. I wouldn't have been able to complete the "Infected mech plant" mission without it, and I didn't usually explode the mechs there. The best part was putting out a singularity and letting my two soldier companions strip the armor, and then kill them while the floated. Once I figured that out, mission was a breeze on Hardcore.



I really like warp, it damages everything, some not great, but if you hit a enemy with it, they take damage. I don't care if they are shielded, or hidden behind a crate, I can usually hit them and hurt them, what more can you ask for.



I am coming to like Shockwave, it is taking some practice, and use, but I am starting to like it. It damages even armor, stuns and knocks them back no matter what, which is nice. Handy to throw to get an enemy out of cover some so I can warp/Sing them or let my companions have at them.



AP ammo is my typical bonus talent, just seems to work for me. I like the extra kick for when I absolutely HAVE to shoot.



Throw, well, on hardcore, I don't bother much with it, yeah, it is fun sometimes but mostly it seems useless above level one.



Pull, while I loved it on normal difficulties, now I find it mostly useless, I would rather throw a Singularity or Warp. I have it at level 2 right now, and may have used it a handful of times.



Adepts are fun, and very useful for me. I have played a Infil and liked it, Soldier and hated it, but only so far the Adept have I taken through the game multiple times. Next maybe I will try a Engineer, but I may do an Insanity run with adept instead, but we shall see.

[Arde5643]

If you haven't used pull and heavy throw in combination yet, specially to the ones where you curve throw in such a way the enemies get thrown to the walls/skies/ledges, you still don't know jack about the power of heavy throw.



For pull, you can either leave it at rank 2 (just to stun enemies longer) or go all the way to pull field.

If you're going against husks, I suggest retraining to pull field.



Throw has to be heavy throw almost all of the time - either only get 1 rank in throw or get the full blown heavy throw. It's your most offensive related skill that can sometimes insta-kill enemies (combined with pull/singularity) and do some cc (knocks down enemy for 5-6 seconds).

[Roxlimn]

Actually, Heavy Throw is also useful for killing almost-dead enemies hiding behind cover. It's not all that unusual to have a few enemies that have a small amount of health hiding behind something you can't snipe past. Keeping Throw in mind during those times allows you to kill an enemy behind cover almost for free. It's very convenient.



Of course, I don't support Arde5643's support of Heavy Throw exclusively. I also found Throw Field to be very nice, particularly if you find yourself having a bunch of Singularity or Pull Field floaters.

[Arde5643]

Heh...for pull field floaters, I usually just use warp and bear the cooldown cost in cover.



I know, I know. Not as efficient, but better than re-speccing heavy throw to throw field for individual missions.

[Roxlimn]

Arde5643:



Well, there ARE concerns other than efficiency. I mean, I keep ragging on AverageGatsby for overusing Singularity, but if he enjoys the sight of orbiting bodies, then who am I to gainsay him? I tend to overuse Warp Explosion myself - it's just sooo... ...blasty. I just can't get enough of that blasty goodnes.

[Arde5643]

I wish shockwave also does some blasty goodness - at least that way I'll actually use shockwave for something.

[Roxlimn]

Arde5643:



Tell you what. I'll seriously try to find a way to use Shockwave to some kind of advantage and I'll report back here if I find anything notable. Wish me luck!

[Arde5643]

Good luck with that - you'll need it.

[Kurt M.]

Slamming husks is fun! ^^

[hero 2]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Slamming husks is fun! ^^

Now that you mention it, my adept did have SOME fun (!) shockwaving all the husks at the end of the collector ship mission.