Aller au contenu

Photo

Why did Wilson betray us again?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
92 réponses à ce sujet

#51
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

But afterwards you fought gun to gun with Jacob, See them as being human rather than a faceless enemy. Also anyone who could give you any information that differed from what TIM wanted you to know is conveniently dead. And it makes you think someone out there wants you dead (not untrue) and Cerberus sacrificed greatly to bring you back.

Well, Jacob is whom i meant by 'the one guy who is also trying to get out'. It honestly did nothing to my opinion on Cerberus to see him try to save his ass, just like seeing a single merc from Blue Suns or whatever doesn't make me form/change opinion on the organization on the whole.

I'm also not sure what sort of information different from what TIM tells you could be gained from the station staff. Or how would that information change situation in any way -- the thing is, Shepard would have to be an idiot to just believe anything TIM tells him in the first place. And i don't think Shepard is an idiot. And TIM actually realizes that pretty well. So in the end the situation is, Shepard just gets to use Cerberus' resources and they allow him to verify existence of Collector threat with his own eyes, and by checking with sources Shepard can personally trust (Anderson etc) ... but it's completely unnecessary to go through the base blowing business to achieve this outcome since it'd come down to that anyway.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 février 2010 - 03:27 .


#52
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*

Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*
  • Guests
Wilson did it pure and simple, if you really pay attention there are a lot of queues that he displays that reveals his intentions.



It's likely that he was getting payed a wealthy sum to do the job, and he didn't outright kill shepard himself because he had to be subtle. Obviously if Shepard ended up dead and he was gone, there would be an enormous price on his head by Cerberus and he probably doesn't want that sort of attention while he's enjoying his riches.

#53
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

Tokalla wrote...

Actually, her logic (if you comment about questioning) is valid.  She considers Shepard too great an investment (she spent 2 years bringing you back, and Cerberus has spent untold resources including at least 4 billion credits) to risk placing into a small shuttle with Wilson (seriously, that things looked like a future stage coach for roominess).  She didn't care enough about the why's, who's, and how's enough to risk your life over.  Perhaps you feel differently, but if I had invested 2 years into bringing someone back from the dead (also note that Wilson was required for this to be done the first time, and I doubt he'd do it a second time), I could see her perspective on the issue.  Remember her speech in the beginning is not an attempt to trick anyone, as only she and TiM are present.  She truly does feel Shepard is the only salvation for humanity.


I never said she didn't believe that. I agree she does. However I also see her investment talk equally giving motive as to why they weren't concerned about everyone else dying in the process. Nothing else mattered. There was no line that wouldn't be crossed to ensure that Shepard was brought back and willing to work for them.

She knew Shepard was physically capable of getting to the shuttles when she woke him. She also rather conveniently left a full suit of armor and a pistol within reach of him. That's not exactly what I'd consider a good plan. Shepard could have woken up on his own at any time, saw he was in a Cerberus facility and had the means to fight his way out without asking questions.

Again, if Shep couldn't fight his way out then they'd know the project was a failure. If he didn't have the strength to fight his way through those flimsy mechs, regardless of how functional he was, then there was no way he'd be able to survive the Omega mission. They couldn't afford to wait any longer.

#54
Clumsy Ninja

Clumsy Ninja
  • Members
  • 206 messages

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Shepards corpse is wanted by the Collectors. Whoever handed his body over would get a huge reward.

  This is the most plausible explanation I've seen, though it's impossible to know for sure one way or the other.

#55
Vanguard Alpha

Vanguard Alpha
  • Members
  • 100 messages
Listen to the log's, its obvious Wilson wanted more money and felt under appreciated by Miranda. Also he had access to the mechs, which Jacob pointed out he shouldnt have, Shephard had a bounty on him from the collectors but was worthless until they put him back together again.



No need for tin foil hats or DLC to conclude the first segment of the game, its bloody obvious.

#56
ilikeicehockey

ilikeicehockey
  • Members
  • 475 messages

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

Listen to the log's, its obvious Wilson wanted more money and felt under appreciated by Miranda. Also he had access to the mechs, which Jacob pointed out he shouldnt have, Shephard had a bounty on him from the collectors but was worthless until they put him back together again.

No need for tin foil hats or DLC to conclude the first segment of the game, its bloody obvious.


actually no, if you read the comic book series coming out now (redemption) it seems that the collectors just want his body. I mean if it wasn't for liara, the collectors would have shephard's body in its condition right after the crash. It doesn't need to be repaired.

#57
crimsoncobra57

crimsoncobra57
  • Members
  • 312 messages
Wilson wanted Shepard dead, not alive. I suppose the Collectors could have wanted the dead body too, but that seems like a stretch. Think back to the first time Jacob contacts him.

Jacob "Wilson, I'm with Shepard."
Wilson "Shepard's alive?! How the hell-.."

^That right there reveals he was shocked to hear Shepard still alive, and not in a good way. He was realizing that he failed, so he had to come up with a new plan. My bet is the Shadow Broker payed him to kill Shepard.. In a sort of "If I can't have him, niether can you" sort of way. Obviously the SB didn't want to bring him back to life, but still wanted him.

Modifié par crimsoncobra57, 08 février 2010 - 03:57 .


#58
Guest_LostScout_*

Guest_LostScout_*
  • Guests
Wilson was "shot" by mechs, but there were no mechs, or destroyed mechs in the room where you found him, and they left him alive, which is very unlikely unless he was controlling them. His audio recordings make it clear he wanted more money, and that he was proud of his work. So, maybe he was told that his work must be kept secret, no-one would ever know about his great achievement. He decided to sell Shep, it wasn't personal. As far as Miranda not being injured, we don't know that she wasn't injured in her battles with the mechs which Wilson sent after her. It just wasn't serious and wasn't mentioned. There really isn't enough info to prove what happened, and it is quite possible there were several different conspiracies running at the same time which ran afoul of each other.

#59
Vaenier

Vaenier
  • Members
  • 2 815 messages
If TIM resurrected my shep from the dead, I would hear him out. I would owe him that much. Then after being stonewalled by the council, I would seek TIM's resources to do the mission.

Alot less plot holes.

Freedom to say no is the best way to gain trust.

#60
Tokalla

Tokalla
  • Members
  • 109 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I never said she didn't believe that. I agree she does. However I also see her investment talk equally giving motive as to why they weren't concerned about everyone else dying in the process. Nothing else mattered. There was no line that wouldn't be crossed to ensure that Shepard was brought back and willing to work for them.

She knew Shepard was physically capable of getting to the shuttles when she woke him. She also rather conveniently left a full suit of armor and a pistol within reach of him. That's not exactly what I'd consider a good plan. Shepard could have woken up on his own at any time, saw he was in a Cerberus facility and had the means to fight his way out without asking questions.

Again, if Shep couldn't fight his way out then they'd know the project was a failure. If he didn't have the strength to fight his way through those flimsy mechs, regardless of how functional he was, then there was no way he'd be able to survive the Omega mission. They couldn't afford to wait any longer.


The pistol wasn't loaded, and there were no clips in the room.  The armor is N7 armor that Shepard walks around in anytime he isn't on a ship.  Sounds to me like a hospital having a change of your clothes and some of your belongings, but nothing readily dangerous.  Further, we have no way of knowing if the pistol was ever meant for Shepard, or if it was there for the staff in the event he woke up (another reason it would be empty, as she wouldn't want to actually risk hurting Shepard).

Yes, because there was nothing experimental done when bringing him back.  I mean, it isn't like Shepard is the first person in medical history to have undergone these procedures.  The long list of previous successes have certainly allowed for Miranda to have adequate information to be able to test Shepard's physical capabilities without him being awake, at least enough to know he'd be able to perform like the N7 trained Spectre capable of fighting through mechs that have slaughtered an entire station full or personnel (many of which were probably not terrible combatants, unless they went cheap on hiring security to protect their 4+ billion credit investment).  Let's also just ignore Jacob's repeated comments about "no more tests" clearly also referring to physical (else why would he need to vouche for something you claim she is clearly well aware of by virtue of Shepard's survival and medical scans alone), as Jacob is obviously just making assumptions that Miranda had previously planned to perform extensive physical and mental tests like those commonly given to individuals who recover from things like comas.

Seriously, Occam's razor leads me to suspect the odd behaving and disgruntled employee with means, motive, and opportunity.  He stands to lose nothing (at no point does the trained medical head ever express any concern for others, or the loss of his co-workers).  He is caught at the scene of the crime.  He is clearly hiding something (jumping at Jacob's comment), and was surprised to see Shepard awake (something tells me the medical head would be more capable of judging Shepard's physical abilities, especially since he is the one who apparently was in the position to tell Miranda whether or not Shepard could even be brought back to begin with).  If nothing else, I'd say there is more evidence against Wilson than you have provided for Miranda.  All you have provided for Miranda is assumptions that require me to believe that either TiM and Miranda are scheming on the level of Dune (unrealistic and utterly implausible, as no plan ever works that smoothly...let alone one with the number of variables present), or they are utter morons (I tend to doubt this since they managed to get 4+ billion credits to revive Shepard, that alone says they have some form of common sense at least).

Not saying it is impossible, just that you are stretching beleivability by claiming Wilson is completely innocent and Miranda was behind everything.  Something that lame I expect in games by companies other than BW.

Modifié par Tokalla, 08 février 2010 - 04:07 .


#61
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

No need for tin foil hats or DLC to conclude the first segment of the game, its bloody obvious.

"Return to Lazarus Project" :o

#62
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

crimsoncobra57 wrote...



Wilson wanted Shepard dead, not alive. I suppose the Collectors could have wanted the dead body too, but that seems like a stretch. Think back to the first time Jacob contacts him.



Jacob "Wilson, I'm with Shepard."

Wilson "Shepard's alive?! How the hell-.."



^That right there reveals he was shocked to hear Shepard still alive, and not in a good way. He was realizing that he failed, so he had to come up with a new plan. My bet is the Shadow Broker payed him to kill Shepard.. In a sort of "If I can't have him, niether can you" sort of way. Obviously the SB didn't want to bring him back to life, but still wanted him.




That still doesn't explain why he bothered to bring him back to life in the first place. He could have 'failed' at any point of the project, yet he waits til he's nearly ready to wake up? Makes no sense. The only reason to wait would be to get their hands on the finished product.



So that would indicate that Wilson would want to get Shepard either alive or undamaged. So programming the mechs to shoot at him makes no sense. It even makes less sense that he'd keep the mechs still programmed to shoot at him.



Not so much the leg shot (could have been self inflicted, sure), but after that. The mechs have no problem shooting at him, and even invade the room firing after you get him back on his feet. So clearly they weren't programmed not to shoot him, nor stay out of the room he was in.



He's somehow smart enough to bring you back from the dead, and get an offer from the Collectors/SB/whatever through the sealed security of the station completely undetected, yet isn't smart enough to put something in the hacking to protect himself?



Makes no sense. Especially given all the access he had to your body over the last two years.

#63
Tokalla

Tokalla
  • Members
  • 109 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

Vanguard Alpha wrote...

No need for tin foil hats or DLC to conclude the first segment of the game, its bloody obvious.

"Return to Lazarus Project" :o



Lol

#64
Zepheera

Zepheera
  • Members
  • 389 messages
It was all a set-up by the Illusive Man to get you to trust Miranda and Jacob!

#65
Guest_Davian1980_*

Guest_Davian1980_*
  • Guests

Cutlass Jack wrote...
That still doesn't explain why he bothered to bring him back to life in the first place. He could have 'failed' at any point of the project, yet he waits til he's nearly ready to wake up? Makes no sense. The only reason to wait would be to get their hands on the finished product.


Actually he did try to fail. Remember at the beginning when Shepard is waking up when he's not supposed too? Miranda says something about Wilson getting his numbers wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if he did that on purpose.

And also do you think that Miranda as the one responsible for the Lazarus Project is gonna let Shepard out of her sight? Espescially seeing as the fate of humanity depends on his survival?

#66
Tokalla

Tokalla
  • Members
  • 109 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

crimsoncobra57 wrote...

Wilson wanted Shepard dead, not alive. I suppose the Collectors could have wanted the dead body too, but that seems like a stretch. Think back to the first time Jacob contacts him.

Jacob "Wilson, I'm with Shepard."
Wilson "Shepard's alive?! How the hell-.."

^That right there reveals he was shocked to hear Shepard still alive, and not in a good way. He was realizing that he failed, so he had to come up with a new plan. My bet is the Shadow Broker payed him to kill Shepard.. In a sort of "If I can't have him, niether can you" sort of way. Obviously the SB didn't want to bring him back to life, but still wanted him.


That still doesn't explain why he bothered to bring him back to life in the first place. He could have 'failed' at any point of the project, yet he waits til he's nearly ready to wake up? Makes no sense. The only reason to wait would be to get their hands on the finished product.

So that would indicate that Wilson would want to get Shepard either alive or undamaged. So programming the mechs to shoot at him makes no sense. It even makes less sense that he'd keep the mechs still programmed to shoot at him.

Not so much the leg shot (could have been self inflicted, sure), but after that. The mechs have no problem shooting at him, and even invade the room firing after you get him back on his feet. So clearly they weren't programmed not to shoot him, nor stay out of the room he was in.

He's somehow smart enough to bring you back from the dead, and get an offer from the Collectors/SB/whatever through the sealed security of the station completely undetected, yet isn't smart enough to put something in the hacking to protect himself?

Makes no sense. Especially given all the access he had to your body over the last two years.


You're missing the point.  He became disgruntled after the project was pretty much done.  If you listen to the logs, the ones he sounds irrate in are the recent ones, not the early ones.  He was underpaid and underappreciated, but didn't know that would be the case in the beginning.  He felt he deserved more money and more credit.  He felt Miranda needed to appreciate him more.  That didn't happen when he succeeded, instead he became more bitter. 

I suspect he was trying to stay in that room until he was certain everyone was dead, then he would remotely deactivate the mechs and leave.  Unfortunately, his plan failed due to Shepard waking up and meeting up with Jacob.  He was likely sending out his first "ditress" call as an attempt to see if everyone had died yet (as you never see another person except for Wilson and Miranda afterwards).  He likely expected to get no response, then he would have turned off the mechs.  Why would a medical tech have grand hacking abilities.  If he was good enough at hacking, he wouldn't have gone to the room he wasn't supposed to have access to in order to hack the mechs, he would have done so remotely.

Once you were alive he was likely much more restricted in his access to you (especially after he apparently failed at something regarding your numbers earlier). 

Modifié par Tokalla, 08 février 2010 - 04:26 .


#67
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

Tokalla wrote...

You're missing the point.  He became disgruntled after the project was pretty much done.  If you listen to the logs, the ones he sounds irrate in are the recent ones, not the early ones.  He was underpaid and underappreciated, but didn't know that would be the case in the beginning.  He felt he deserved more money and more credit.  He felt Miranda needed to appreciate him more.  That didn't happen when he succeeded, instead he became more bitter. 

I suspect he was trying to stay in that room until he was certain everyone was dead, then he would remotely deactivate the mechs and leave.  Unfortunately, his plan failed due to Shepard waking up and meeting up with Jacob.  He was likely sending out his first "ditress" call as an attempt to see if everyone had died yet (as you never see another person except for Wilson and Miranda afterwards).  He likely expected to get no response, then he would have turned off the mechs.  Why would a medical tech have grand hacking abilities.  If he was good enough at hacking, he wouldn't have gone to the room he wasn't supposed to have access to in order to hack the mechs, he would have done so remotely.

Once you were alive he was likely much more restricted in his access to you (especially after he apparently failed at something regarding your numbers earlier). 


He'd have to have grand hacking skills to have tried to pull anything over on Miranda/Cerberus. Say what you want about them, but they aren't slouches on network security. (for example see the files that take EDI a year to decrypt) Information control is TIM's entire game. You aren't just going to hack one of his projects unless you're one of the best. You certainly arent going to be using the Email system to contact outside parties either.

Which frankly, I have a hard time believing of Wilson. Its completely outside of his specialty. But I could see him making a dash to the control room hoping to figure out a way to shut them down. Act of desparation, not ability.

Again, I should point out he wasn't actually secure in that room. The Mechs entered and started firing without effort. So he did absolutely nothing to protect himself from his own plan.

On the other hand I have a near impossible time believing that Miranda didn't have complete knowledge of everything going on at her project. By her own words she never makes mistakes. So how did Wilson's amazing hacking skills completely slip her attention when she put him on the project?

I have a hard time believing Wilson could have pulled anything over on Miranda even on his best day.

#68
Thompson family

Thompson family
  • Members
  • 2 748 messages
As mentioned, there are several video logs in the station that clearly give his motives: Money and feeling unappreciated.



The first message talks about the obscene amounts of money spent on the program with Wilson grousing that not enough of it is coming his way. Second is that maybe Miranda should "appreciate him more."



Money and tail, the two leading causes of betrayal in the uniververse. Miranda's so far out of this guy's league, it's sad, really.



Finally, there are only four people left alive at the end. Assume that the traitor wanted to get out alive. Miranda knows she didn't launch the attack. Shepard was in a coma when the attack started. Jacob is a good soldier. Wilson was recruited for his medical skill, and his grousing about money and being under-appreciated shows he had no deep loyalty to Cerberus.



But yeah, shooting him was cold.

#69
DBHolm

DBHolm
  • Members
  • 65 messages
Review the mission log. That log is obviously not intended for Shepard (or any of the crew) to read, and it states Wilson is a mole.

#70
The BS Police

The BS Police
  • Members
  • 400 messages
Maybe he recieved a huge sum from our good old friend the Shadow Broker.

#71
FlintlockJazz

FlintlockJazz
  • Members
  • 2 710 messages
Let's say that Wilson did betray Cerberus, how would he have managed to do it under Miranda and/or TIM's nose? They are more or less omnipresent, and they claim to know he betrayed them, yet somehow didn't find this out until it was too late? I don't buy that, more than likely they not only knew about Wilson's betrayal well in advance but they may have even helped him do it, to fully expose him as a traitor while cleaning house by getting him to kill off his coworkers. After all, TIM seems to be fully informed by the time of your arrival and doesn't seem to care.

#72
Dr Metzger

Dr Metzger
  • Members
  • 199 messages
Its probably been mentioned but when he says he is being attacked over the radio there is no background noise and there are no mechs around him when you find him, I thought that was pretty suspicious, especially mixed with him complaining about money.

#73
Hokochu

Hokochu
  • Members
  • 432 messages

BigKahuna25 wrote...

well, either way, RIP spike. at least until you pick up grunt.

Spike played Grunt too? Didn't even notice.

#74
IceSavage

IceSavage
  • Members
  • 158 messages
Personally, I thought Wilson was in love with Miranda and couldnt handle her rejection.

Modifié par IceSavage, 08 février 2010 - 06:47 .


#75
Schneidend

Schneidend
  • Members
  • 5 768 messages
It's hard to tell that Steve Blum is playing Grunt, because they clearly did a bit of voice modulation, methinks.



As for Wilson, there's a myriad of reasons. My personal theory is that Wilson was either a) paid off by the Collectors or the Shadow Broker, or B) under orders from the Illusive Man to create a "field test" scenario for the newly revived Shepard.