394 réponses à ce sujet

[morrie23]

@ Ulrich



I believe people are complaining about the in-game implementation of the 2nd act. If you think it works then fair enough, others obviously have a different and equally justified view.

[jlb524]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Adding it to the 2nd act (via DLC) is stupid.

They aren't necessarily going to add a conclusion to the romance in ME2 DLC.   I agree that this should be put off until ME3.  However, the Liara content (especially the romance content) was lackluster in ME2.  A DLC that would expand upon it (still keeping it 'troubled'  to await a resolution in the third act and finale) would be welcome.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Adding it to the 2nd act (via DLC) is stupid.

They aren't necessarily going to add a conclusion to the romance in ME2 DLC.   I agree that this should be put off until ME3.  However, the Liara content (especially the romance content) was lackluster in ME2.  A DLC that would expand upon it (still keeping it 'troubled'  to await a resolution in the third act and finale) would be welcome.

I just disagree that without some sort of resolution and continuation of the romance prior to ME3 that it is going to be completely unfair to the ME1 LI's.  They aren't going to give all the new LI's a "troubled second act" in ME3 but if I have to carry this "troubled" act all the way through ME3 just trying to reestablish the relationship I had in ME1 that will basically remove ALL the chapters of the romance.

I suppose I can see them doing that, but it would be completely disappointing and unsatisfying.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 14 février 2010 - 04:02 .

[Unato]

so I was reading around and apparently the kasumi files was modified when Zaeed was realised so next time some major dlc comes out i'll go take another look

[jlb524]

Nozybidaj wrote...

I just disagree that without some sort of resolution and continuation of the romance prior to ME3 that it is going to be completely unfair to the ME1 LI's.  They aren't going to give all the new LI's a "troubled second act" in ME3 but if I have to carry this "troubled" act all the way through ME3 just trying to reestablish the relationship I had in ME1 that will basically remove ALL the chapters of the romance.

I suppose I can see them doing that, but it would be completely disappointing and unsatisfying.

I don't mind them keeping the romances troubled in ME2 to later conclude them happily in ME3, but they didn't even do that.  There was basically no romance content in ME2 for Liara, troubled or not.  The ME2 Liara romance could have been continued and troubled at the same time, but it was neither.  It was nothing.

And you're right about the ME2 LI's.  They won't go through a 'troubled' stage.  I actually think this is a weaker romance.  I  find the 'three act romance with trouble in the middle' interesting, if executed properly.  The Liara romance, however, was not executed properly as a three part romance with trouble in the middle, IMO.

[Nozybidaj]

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I just disagree that without some sort of resolution and continuation of the romance prior to ME3 that it is going to be completely unfair to the ME1 LI's.  They aren't going to give all the new LI's a "troubled second act" in ME3 but if I have to carry this "troubled" act all the way through ME3 just trying to reestablish the relationship I had in ME1 that will basically remove ALL the chapters of the romance.

I suppose I can see them doing that, but it would be completely disappointing and unsatisfying.

I don't mind them keeping the romances troubled in ME2 to later conclude them happily in ME3, but they didn't even do that.  There was basically no romance content in ME2 for Liara, troubled or not.  The ME2 Liara romance could have been continued and troubled at the same time, but it was neither.  It was nothing.

And you're right about the ME2 LI's.  They won't go through a 'troubled' stage.  I actually think this is a weaker romance.  I  find the 'three act romance with trouble in the middle' interesting, if executed properly.  The Liara romance, however, was not executed properly as a three part romance with trouble in the middle, IMO.

I agree that troubled and existing would have been the ideal set up for ME2.  BW seems to think they have  fulfilled this part of the romance in ME2.

Now looking ahead to expansions I think the primary focus should be reestablishing the romances so that come ME3 they are all on a level playing field.  Looking at ME1 and ME2 all the romances follow the exact same format.  I would expect all the romances in ME3 to follow the exact same format.  To do so properly though all the romances would have to be on equal footing.

If they just leave things as they are and do nothing with the romances till ME3 they are either going to come into ME3 with the whole unfolding of the ME1 LI's being "reestablishing" the romance, which would suck.  I basically could have stopped playing the trilogy at the end of ME1 and not missed a thing at that point.

Or, they will just jump right back into things like nothing ever happened to keep them at the same pace as the ME2 romances which wouldn't make any sense.

They have to properly address these romances prior to ME3 to have any hope of a satisfying third and concluding chapter.

[Badpie]

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I just disagree that without some sort of resolution and continuation of the romance prior to ME3 that it is going to be completely unfair to the ME1 LI's.  They aren't going to give all the new LI's a "troubled second act" in ME3 but if I have to carry this "troubled" act all the way through ME3 just trying to reestablish the relationship I had in ME1 that will basically remove ALL the chapters of the romance.

I suppose I can see them doing that, but it would be completely disappointing and unsatisfying.

I don't mind them keeping the romances troubled in ME2 to later conclude them happily in ME3, but they didn't even do that.  There was basically no romance content in ME2 for Liara, troubled or not.  The ME2 Liara romance could have been continued and troubled at the same time, but it was neither.  It was nothing.

And you're right about the ME2 LI's.  They won't go through a 'troubled' stage.  I actually think this is a weaker romance.  I  find the 'three act romance with trouble in the middle' interesting, if executed properly.  The Liara romance, however, was not executed properly as a three part romance with trouble in the middle, IMO.

I agree there needs to be something more with Liara.   There wasn't even a HINT that the two of you had been in a relationship in ME2.  Would be nice to expand on the "troubled second act" with that in some DLC.

At least with Ashley and Kaidan you got a 30 second conversation where it was clearly indicated that the two of you had been special to each other.  Liara got nothing.

All three ME1 romance plotlines I would love to see resolved WELL in ME3.  I'll be pissed if it feels like a tacked on attempt to quell fanboys because Bioware has a great chance to delve deeper into a really interesting subplot here with all of them.

But yes to Liara/ Shadow Broker/ Save her butt and she kisses you DLC.  *fingers crossed*

[Nozybidaj]

Badpie wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I just disagree that without some sort of resolution and continuation of the romance prior to ME3 that it is going to be completely unfair to the ME1 LI's.  They aren't going to give all the new LI's a "troubled second act" in ME3 but if I have to carry this "troubled" act all the way through ME3 just trying to reestablish the relationship I had in ME1 that will basically remove ALL the chapters of the romance.

I suppose I can see them doing that, but it would be completely disappointing and unsatisfying.

I don't mind them keeping the romances troubled in ME2 to later conclude them happily in ME3, but they didn't even do that.  There was basically no romance content in ME2 for Liara, troubled or not.  The ME2 Liara romance could have been continued and troubled at the same time, but it was neither.  It was nothing.

And you're right about the ME2 LI's.  They won't go through a 'troubled' stage.  I actually think this is a weaker romance.  I  find the 'three act romance with trouble in the middle' interesting, if executed properly.  The Liara romance, however, was not executed properly as a three part romance with trouble in the middle, IMO.

I agree there needs to be something more with Liara.   There wasn't even a HINT that the two of you had been in a relationship in ME2.  Would be nice to expand on the "troubled second act" with that in some DLC.

At least with Ashley and Kaidan you got a 30 second conversation where it was clearly indicated that the two of you had been special to each other.  Liara got nothing.

All three ME1 romance plotlines I would love to see resolved WELL in ME3.  I'll be pissed if it feels like a tacked on attempt to quell fanboys because Bioware has a great chance to delve deeper into a really interesting subplot here with all of them.

But yes to Liara/ Shadow Broker/ Save her butt and she kisses you DLC.  *fingers crossed*

Well I hope the kiss is just the start, hopefully if they do it as a full expansion they can include an entire romance arc similar to what the ME2 characters received.  Start troubled still, work through her SB brokers issues and as you come closer to the end Liara and Shep continue to come closer together, then at the end once you have defeated her personal demons by ending the threat of the SB you are finally fully reunited along with an ending scene and post game invites up to the captain's cabin.

[Phen0m20]

bump

[screwoffreg]

The Jaheira avatar is ironic as I see the new Liara as a Jaheira type romance.

[GrimmTruth]

StolenThunder wrote...

Need want NOW.

Agreed...

[PARAGON87]

My bet is that this Liara DLC is that whole episodic expansion like Dragon Age: Awakening, because in order to take down the Shadow Broker, you have to do a lot of stuff.

[Chief Savage Man]

I'm hoping that Bioware turns it into an engaging side quest storyline in ME3. The side quests have never really sucked me in in the Bioware games I've played and it'd be nice to have a longer and more interesting side quest to recruit Liara in ME3, dealing with her mission against the Shadow Broker. Lots of potential there.

[pashok7]

I think that with Liara in this supplement, we will catch the shadow broker. And then say that Shepard will join when finished some things, but in ME3

[wolf99000]

I dont see them killing you off at the start of me3 so some of the dlc has to explain you having to build a new team maybe that is how she comes in giving you info on possibles



the only way a dlc with liara would really explain anything is if you played it from her point of view with her as the main character

[Driveninhifi]

Well, you can't really do it with her as the main character as that would let the player develop her in ways that could make her presentation in ME2 make no sense....



If she and Shep join up and raid the SB base, she could explain things the same way Jack does in her mission. Then you could have dialogue before/after the mission where she talks about herself, what she's been through and her feelings/obsession over Shep.

[wolf99000]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, you can't really do it with her as the main character as that would let the player develop her in ways that could make her presentation in ME2 make no sense....

If she and Shep join up and raid the SB base, she could explain things the same way Jack does in her mission. Then you could have dialogue before/after the mission where she talks about herself, what she's been through and her feelings/obsession over Shep.

I just don't see them wasting the revealing of the sb on dlc it I think that is going to play a big part in mass effect 3

[Driveninhifi]

Well, they did say the Liara DLC would follow up on the comic. So it pretty much has to deal with him in some way or another. I do think that a DLC dealing with Liara that doesn't have more in-depth conversations about her experiences (and her feelings for Shepard in the love case) will feel very artificial - having both characters ignore that twice is totally unbelievable.

With ME3 I'd worry about a major plot point involving the Shadow Broker. Mass Effect 2 already suffers from feeling like unrelated missions at times (most of what you do does not really advance the narrative - you can argue the entire game doesn't really advance the trilogy's plot). Unless he is intimately connected to the Reapers (which is possible, though I think that might be challenging to accept) I'd be concerned that a mission dealing with him will feel like an unrelated episode in the grand scheme; that would be duplicating problems that already exist in ME2, which I think is a mistake.

Not to say it can't work at all (there are certainly a ton of possibilities - maybe you end up having to work with him to get information, etc), just playing devil's advocate.

It would definitely be cleaner to do it in content that bridges ME2 and ME3, and leave ME3 to dealing with the Reapers. There's a whole lot of ground to cover in figuring out how to stop an army of Reapers, after all.

[Newtype Taichou]

I would love DLC for Liara



[POSSIBLE SPOILER]



If you romanced her in the first game, in the second you'll kiss her when you first find her on Ilium. That was nice, but nothing more happened (unless there was and I missed it, if so please enlighten me). I kept going back to talk to her, but nothing lol. Even after I defeated the Collectors she had nothing to say! So yeah I'd love to see some more "action" between her and Shepard.

[MutantSpleen]

Badpie wrote...

I agree there needs to be something more with Liara.   There wasn't even a HINT that the two of you had been in a relationship in ME2.  Would be nice to expand on the "troubled second act" with that in some DLC.

At least with Ashley and Kaidan you got a 30 second conversation where it was clearly indicated that the two of you had been special to each other.  Liara got nothing.

All three ME1 romance plotlines I would love to see resolved WELL in ME3.  I'll be pissed if it feels like a tacked on attempt to quell fanboys because Bioware has a great chance to delve deeper into a really interesting subplot here with all of them.

But yes to Liara/ Shadow Broker/ Save her butt and she kisses you DLC.  *fingers crossed*

Not even a HINT? That's a bit of an exaggeration. There was definitely a hint. 

You walk in she gets a happy "OMG its you!" look. She turns to you, walks forward and tells Nyxaris to hold her calls. Liara reaches out and grabs your hands while she whispers something to you, you kiss, she looks at you and shakes her head "No" then turns her head away looking sad. Shepard also looks sad for a moment.

That was like 100 times better than the lackluster welcome I got from Kaidan on another character (not my main). I am trying to remember I think he gave me a hug. A hug? Really Kaidan that's the best you can do? Then he rants at you about not contacting him, spazes out about Cerberus basically calling you a traitor. Yeah that was great. Later you get a lukewarm letter saying he is sorry and maybe you can work it out.

Trust me I'd love to know what Liara whispered to me, but maybe its left silent for a reason. Also Liara knows why you haven't been around for two years, she already knows you are alive, she knows everything, heck she knows the moment you land on Illium. She was also hating herself for giving you to Cerberus becasue she thought you would hate her.

I want more too, but I also don't think Liara was nearly as bad as some are saying. It was just more cryptic than the others but at the same time more emotional, for me at least.

[KumoriOokami]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I agree there needs to be something more with Liara.   There wasn't even a HINT that the two of you had been in a relationship in ME2.  Would be nice to expand on the "troubled second act" with that in some DLC.

At least with Ashley and Kaidan you got a 30 second conversation where it was clearly indicated that the two of you had been special to each other.  Liara got nothing.

All three ME1 romance plotlines I would love to see resolved WELL in ME3.  I'll be pissed if it feels like a tacked on attempt to quell fanboys because Bioware has a great chance to delve deeper into a really interesting subplot here with all of them.

But yes to Liara/ Shadow Broker/ Save her butt and she kisses you DLC.  *fingers crossed*

Not even a HINT? That's a bit of an exaggeration. There was definitely a hint. 

You walk in she gets a happy "OMG its you!" look. She turns to you, walks forward and tells Nyxaris to hold her calls. Liara reaches out and grabs your hands while she whispers something to you, you kiss, she looks at you and shakes her head "No" then turns her head away looking sad. Shepard also looks sad for a moment.

That was like 100 times better than the lackluster welcome I got from Kaidan on another character (not my main). I am trying to remember I think he gave me a hug. A hug? Really Kaidan that's the best you can do? Then he rants at you about not contacting him, spazes out about Cerberus basically calling you a traitor. Yeah that was great. Later you get a lukewarm letter saying he is sorry and maybe you can work it out.

Trust me I'd love to know what Liara whispered to me, but maybe its left silent for a reason. Also Liara knows why you haven't been around for two years, she already knows you are alive, she knows everything, heck she knows the moment you land on Illium. She was also hating herself for giving you to Cerberus becasue she thought you would hate her.

I want more too, but I also don't think Liara was nearly as bad as some are saying. It was just more cryptic than the others but at the same time more emotional, for me at least.

I agree with this.   I still really want my Liara DLC because it is impossible for there to be too much Liara in ME from  my point of view.  ^^

My kingdom for a hug interrupt when Liara is feeling all guilty about that stuff though.

[wolf99000]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, they did say the Liara DLC would follow up on the comic. So it pretty much has to deal with him in some way or another. I do think that a DLC dealing with Liara that doesn't have more in-depth conversations about her experiences (and her feelings for Shepard in the love case) will feel very artificial - having both characters ignore that twice is totally unbelievable.
With ME3 I'd worry about a major plot point involving the Shadow Broker. Mass Effect 2 already suffers from feeling like unrelated missions at times (most of what you do does not really advance the narrative - you can argue the entire game doesn't really advance the trilogy's plot). Unless he is intimately connected to the Reapers (which is possible, though I think that might be challenging to accept) I'd be concerned that a mission dealing with him will feel like an unrelated episode in the grand scheme; that would be duplicating problems that already exist in ME2, which I think is a mistake.
Not to say it can't work at all (there are certainly a ton of possibilities - maybe you end up having to work with him to get information, etc), just playing devil's advocate.
It would definitely be cleaner to do it in content that bridges ME2 and ME3, and leave ME3 to dealing with the Reapers. There's a whole lot of ground to cover in figuring out how to stop an army of Reapers, after all.

I agree with most of that on the plot point with the sb in 3 and him being connected to the reapers what if he is a reaper it would explain no one ever seeing him and they do seem to have access to a ton of info as legion said in me2

[Driveninhifi]

But the problem with that is what does the Shadow Broker get out of it? Sure, he gets cash now, but then the Reapers come and kill everyone. Hard to spend the money when all life has been destroyed. Unless he has some deal to be king during the reaping - but that's just weird. He could also be an AI/Reaper, but that's also kind of weird.