376 réponses à ce sujet

[wulf3n]

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission.

Your logic is flawed, just because there are 66 survivability outcomes, does not mean bioware will have to write 66 different stories based upon who lived and died. If ME2 is anything to go buy, it will be very modular, most of the characters are irrelevant to the main plot points and eventual outcome of the story.
There are very few interactions between you sqaudmates in ME2  hell after their recruitment missions, a few special interactions between Jack/Miranda, Legion/Tali none of the crew would even know the other existed.

Example: you'll notice a lot in ME2 that certain events playout word for word no matter who you have in your squad, like samara's recruitment mission, it doesnt matter who you have with you, there will always be a conversation with your sqaudmates regarding the whole suicide mission, following orders that will get them killed.

[mjwoltsknar]

Kuari999 wrote...

Here's another thing... say you lose your standard crew. You really think they'll make you have the Normandy with ONLY Chakwas, Joker and EDI with you?

chakwas and joker as potential ME3 squadmates?
I SAY YES

[EricHVela]

Shepard, EDI and Joker.

ME3: The Love/Hate Triad.

[Palathas]

I would have to think there'd have to be room for some sort of appearance for ME2 love interests. So I would expect Miranda, Tali, Jack, Jacob, Thane and Garrus to be in ME3 in some form. Just as Kaiden, Ash and Liara are in ME2 in some form.

[crimsonwarhawk]

I understand what your saying OP, but I would be very very disapointed if most of the party members didnt carry over. Of course I would still buy it and play it, but considering that most of ME2 is about your squad mates I think it would be wastefull to just toss them out for a new crew. I mean if thats what they do then I would be pissed because the main story didnt get advanced very far in 2.

[magicalpoop]

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission. If you want to include the possible death of Shepard in that, there are 78 possible outcomes.  Unfortunately, Bioware does not have the time or man power to produce a game that is customized to everyone's story.

If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

So, in conclusion, the development process required for including every permutation of surviving squad members is too large if anyone expects this game in the next decade. Id expect LI from ME1(Kaiden/Ashley and Liara) to be included in ME3, but dont be surprised when a major ambush at the beginning of ME3 kills your LI (if you chose to pick a new one in ME2) from ME2, along with the rest of your squadmates. Making a brief cinematic that takes into account all permutations will be a lot easier than making an entire new game with all the permutations covered.

As for the main character, Id say all evidence points to us playing as Conrad Verner in ME3 (kidding, kidding:P)

Yeah but as the canon story goes...

honestly, all they need are

Liara
Ashley
Kaidan
Garrus
Miranda
Jacob
Tali


For these characters that don't seem like major ME2 characters-
They can do what they did to ME1 LI's ...give them one line and a short cameo. They're off busy building a lego house. End of story. It's not hard.

Thane is dying, Jack is just crazy and felt like going off, Grunt can go pursue some krogan blood orgy, Legion needs to go back to his people, Samara is 1000 years old, she can go pass away in her sleep. Morinth can try to sleep with another adart yakshi and die from a dual orgasm conflict.


Honestly, you're making way too much out of this. They had this **** planned from the start. Not to mention Bioware is a AAA title producer, backed up by EA's accounts. I highly doubt money is an issue.

[Kuari999]

magicalpoop wrote...

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission. If you want to include the possible death of Shepard in that, there are 78 possible outcomes.  Unfortunately, Bioware does not have the time or man power to produce a game that is customized to everyone's story.

If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

So, in conclusion, the development process required for including every permutation of surviving squad members is too large if anyone expects this game in the next decade. Id expect LI from ME1(Kaiden/Ashley and Liara) to be included in ME3, but dont be surprised when a major ambush at the beginning of ME3 kills your LI (if you chose to pick a new one in ME2) from ME2, along with the rest of your squadmates. Making a brief cinematic that takes into account all permutations will be a lot easier than making an entire new game with all the permutations covered.

As for the main character, Id say all evidence points to us playing as Conrad Verner in ME3 (kidding, kidding:P)

Yeah but as the canon story goes...

honestly, all they need are

Liara
Ashley
Kaidan
Garrus
Miranda
Jacob
Tali


For these characters that don't seem like major ME2 characters-
They can do what they did to ME1 LI's ...give them one line and a short cameo. They're off busy building a lego house. End of story. It's not hard.

Thane is dying, Jack is just crazy and felt like going off, Grunt can go pursue some krogan blood orgy, Legion needs to go back to his people, Samara is 1000 years old, she can go pass away in her sleep. Morinth can try to sleep with another adart yakshi and die from a dual orgasm conflict.


Honestly, you're making way too much out of this. They had this **** planned from the start. Not to mention Bioware is a AAA title producer, backed up by EA's accounts. I highly doubt money is an issue.

Legion spends 2 years finding you only to leave almost immediately...  THAT makes so much sense.  Samara isn't a matriarch even, sooo yeah...  Grunt, might go back to the Urdnots, but he considers Shepard his Battlemaster..  Jack...  she hates Cerberus.  I can see her leaving in the Renegade ending, but Paragon?  What better way to kick Cerberus ass?

[magicalpoop]

Kuari999 wrote...

magicalpoop wrote...

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission. If you want to include the possible death of Shepard in that, there are 78 possible outcomes.  Unfortunately, Bioware does not have the time or man power to produce a game that is customized to everyone's story.

If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

So, in conclusion, the development process required for including every permutation of surviving squad members is too large if anyone expects this game in the next decade. Id expect LI from ME1(Kaiden/Ashley and Liara) to be included in ME3, but dont be surprised when a major ambush at the beginning of ME3 kills your LI (if you chose to pick a new one in ME2) from ME2, along with the rest of your squadmates. Making a brief cinematic that takes into account all permutations will be a lot easier than making an entire new game with all the permutations covered.

As for the main character, Id say all evidence points to us playing as Conrad Verner in ME3 (kidding, kidding:P)

Yeah but as the canon story goes...

honestly, all they need are

Liara
Ashley
Kaidan
Garrus
Miranda
Jacob
Tali


For these characters that don't seem like major ME2 characters-
They can do what they did to ME1 LI's ...give them one line and a short cameo. They're off busy building a lego house. End of story. It's not hard.

Thane is dying, Jack is just crazy and felt like going off, Grunt can go pursue some krogan blood orgy, Legion needs to go back to his people, Samara is 1000 years old, she can go pass away in her sleep. Morinth can try to sleep with another adart yakshi and die from a dual orgasm conflict.


Honestly, you're making way too much out of this. They had this **** planned from the start. Not to mention Bioware is a AAA title producer, backed up by EA's accounts. I highly doubt money is an issue.

Legion spends 2 years finding you only to leave almost immediately...  THAT makes so much sense.  Samara isn't a matriarch even, sooo yeah...  Grunt, might go back to the Urdnots, but he considers Shepard his Battlemaster..  Jack...  she hates Cerberus.  I can see her leaving in the Renegade ending, but Paragon?  What better way to kick Cerberus ass?

Dude, they get you killed before you can even fire your pistol. What do you think they WONT do? Nothing.
Thats just like missing for 4 years and then meeting any of your love interests, they don't give a ****...
How about that? Bioware's writting is bizzare. They like to mess with your feelings.

Samara is 1000 years old. Asari only live to around 1000 years old. So what? Grunt doesn't say **** for the entire game except that momentary PMS episode. NO ONE really says anything except Legion/Tali/Miranda.
Beyond their loyalty missions, I sometimes forgot they even existed (i.e. Jack)

[Chineseguy]

It would be a really dumb move to not have at least a few squad members from me2 carry over to me3, considering 90% of this game was character development and 10% of it was the main plot. Whats the point of of getting gamers to get to know each squad mates so well just to have them scrapped or sidelined in the next game.

[shaneho78]

I think it should be canon that every survives.

You have fewer people complaining about why Zaeed is still alive than why Miranda or Mordin isn't in your squad.It isn't so hard to load a save prior to REAPER IFF, do those loyalty missions and read the forums on how to get your team to survive. I mean the Reaper IFF and Suicide missions add up to barely 1 hour of gameplay. The only reason people will not do that is if they hate a particular character (read Zaeed) and deliberately want him dead.

Even if you have squad members who are not loyal (siding with Miranda, Tali or saving the miners in Zaeed's mission), it is still VERY much possible to have the entire team surviving. Mordin and Tali appear to encounter random deaths but that can be fixed by replaying the Collector Base mission (there is less than 50% chance for such a random death)

In short I am suggesting that BW should ignore continuity strictly in terms of squad survival and make 100% squad survival canon (of course allowing continuity for everything else). People would very much want their old squad members back than complain about continuity (survivors or not)

If you are so duly concerned about continuity, you can easily go back and replay the mission to ensure everyone's alive.

Modifié par shaneho78, 09 février 2010 - 04:45 .

[Kusatsu]

I will be very unhappy if my squadmates from ME2 are not present in 3. The whole point of the game was side-missions getting to know them individually and I'm so attached to them it'd be upsetting and disconnecting to start from scratch with a new group.

It's unfortunate that my two favourite characters (Thane and Mordin) are the ones most likely to die anyway. Mordin is extremely old for a salarian and Thane's going to croak within a year. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

[Lord Atlia]

There have been a variety of these threads over the week and I've been contemplating how Bioware will handle this. First thing we do know is that Liara's character shield is intact but people jump to the conclusion that she will have to be in ME3 100%, I'm not sure if this is the case unless a developer has said otherwise beyond that there will be LI conflicts (maybe they just send you e-mails). Second, I heard that there will be little in the way of graphical updates in ME3 so that characters can simply be cut and pasted into ME3. Default Shepard will probably lose either one or no party members from the last few games and those losses would be hardwired into the character as opposed to chosen. It is a lot easier simply using already created characters then going through the process of concept, design, and VA auditions of a whole new cast lets not forget how much time they will then need invested into them within the story. From this perspective it just seems cheaper to insert the ME2 characters and people who died simply disappear (I mean these guys didn't really talk to each other and only had a handful of character unique lines). Plus this means that poor leaders will have consequences in the form of smaller crew.

[sbear3737]

I'd say as far as development goes, it doesn't have to be as complicated as it may seem. For characters that are dead, their portion of the story may simply be skipped in ME3 such that players will be missing out on some parts of the game as a consequence for their sub-par actions in ME2. If Bioware has already gone to such lengths as to ban dead-shepard saves from ME3, it wouldn't be much more of a stretch to rebuke players who let teammates die.

[AtreiyaN7]

Someone asked in another thread, and I pointed out that most people shoot for No Man Left Behind. Therefore, quite a few people can be assumed to have everyone alive. It wasn't difficult for BioWare to put Wrex into ME2 or leave him out, ditto on Ashley/Kaidan (whichever one died on Virmire). They'll probably write everyone in, and if they're dead in your game, they just won't show. Maybe some will have cameos, but I expect a lot of them to come back.

[Kuari999]

magicalpoop wrote...

Dude, they get you killed before you can even fire your pistol. What do you think they WONT do? Nothing.
Thats just like missing for 4 years and then meeting any of your love interests, they don't give a ****...
How about that? Bioware's writting is bizzare. They like to mess with your feelings.

Samara is 1000 years old. Asari only live to around 1000 years old. So what? Grunt doesn't say **** for the entire game except that momentary PMS episode. NO ONE really says anything except Legion/Tali/Miranda.
Beyond their loyalty missions, I sometimes forgot they even existed (i.e. Jack)

Pulling the same thing twice is kind of lame though, especially in a game where choices are supposed to matter in the next game...  Also..

http://masseffect.bi...e/squad/samara/

Age: Estimated 600 human years

[Collider]

Here's a little poll about Mass Effect 1 and 2 characters returning as squad mates in Mass Effect 3. Please share your opinion to Bioware.

http://social.biowar...908/polls/1974/

[Ryouseiken]

What if they do something similar to Baldur's Gate? You know how in the first game you can recruit so many different characters but in the sequel it is canonically decided that you traveled and beat the first game with Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, and two others who I can't remember. I think Minsc and Dynaheir.

They might do something similar to that.

And it also would not be too difficult to bring back ME2/ME1 squadmates as ME3 ones. They might scale back a bit on diologue but in the end its not impossible for them to do this.

[Collider]

Ryouseiken wrote...

What if they do something similar to Baldur's Gate? You know how in the first game you can recruit so many different characters but in the sequel it is canonically decided that you traveled and beat the first game with Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, and two others who I can't remember. I think Minsc and Dynaheir.

Bad idea. Don't assume the players did things they did not, or at least things they did the opposite of.

[Ryouseiken]

Collider wrote...

Ryouseiken wrote...

What if they do something similar to Baldur's Gate? You know how in the first game you can recruit so many different characters but in the sequel it is canonically decided that you traveled and beat the first game with Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, and two others who I can't remember. I think Minsc and Dynaheir.

Bad idea. Don't assume the players did things they did not, or at least things they did the opposite of.

Just saying is all. I'd be disappointed too if they did this. I'm just disagreeing with the creator because I don't see putting previous Squad Members in the final game as difficult as it is being brought out to be. :happy: Gotta stay positive.

[sbear3737]

Kuari999 wrote...

magicalpoop wrote...

Dude, they get you killed before you can even fire your pistol. What do you think they WONT do? Nothing.
Thats just like missing for 4 years and then meeting any of your love interests, they don't give a ****...
How about that? Bioware's writting is bizzare. They like to mess with your feelings.

Samara is 1000 years old. Asari only live to around 1000 years old. So what? Grunt doesn't say **** for the entire game except that momentary PMS episode. NO ONE really says anything except Legion/Tali/Miranda.
Beyond their loyalty missions, I sometimes forgot they even existed (i.e. Jack)

Pulling the same thing twice is kind of lame though, especially in a game where choices are supposed to matter in the next game...  Also..

http://masseffect.bi...e/squad/samara/

Age: Estimated 600 human years

pretty sure she's a lot older than 600, she spent 400 years pursuing Morinth, meaning Morinth had  to be at least 100 by the time she left and ran, and Samara wouldn't have had Morinth at 100, let alone become a justicar at 200 (too early). The 1000 estimate is pretty reasonable.

[Kuari999]

sbear3737 wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

magicalpoop wrote...

Dude, they get you killed before you can even fire your pistol. What do you think they WONT do? Nothing.
Thats just like missing for 4 years and then meeting any of your love interests, they don't give a ****...
How about that? Bioware's writting is bizzare. They like to mess with your feelings.

Samara is 1000 years old. Asari only live to around 1000 years old. So what? Grunt doesn't say **** for the entire game except that momentary PMS episode. NO ONE really says anything except Legion/Tali/Miranda.
Beyond their loyalty missions, I sometimes forgot they even existed (i.e. Jack)

Pulling the same thing twice is kind of lame though, especially in a game where choices are supposed to matter in the next game...  Also..

http://masseffect.bi...e/squad/samara/

Age: Estimated 600 human years

pretty sure she's a lot older than 600, she spent 400 years pursuing Morinth, meaning Morinth had  to be at least 100 by the time she left and ran, and Samara wouldn't have had Morinth at 100, let alone become a justicar at 200 (too early). The 1000 estimate is pretty reasonable.

....its the fricken OFFICIAL MASS EFFECT 2 WEBSITE!!!  Are you flippin' dense?  Look at the link, lower left.  Your estimate is garbage when compared to the official website.

[HunterX6]

cashogy wrote...

Rakia_Time wrote...

Here's what i think will happen - The minimum required squad members for Shepard to survive is 2 (i think) so in ME3 you get them and maybe someone from ME1, the more people survive the suicide mission the more squad members you get in ME3 it's that simple.

The problem with this is that Bioware has to program in scenarios for every possible outcome. That is just too many to make a complete game. As far as I am aware, the time it would take to produce a game with the squad members as you describe would be significant; far longer than anyone wants to wait for ME3.

However, the possibitly of Bioware including all of ME2's squad members that live in ME3 is raised if they were to be squad members only. Meaning they would have very little conversation dialogue, and their character development would be minimal. I dont think anyone wants that

ah you people are already making ME3 lame in my mind even though what i am reading kind of make sense and might be true! that wont be cool at all..i mean its stupid that u dont get your squad from ME2 especially your old pals like garrus and tali, plus now i get the feeling they will have minimal dialogue (which i hope not) cause if they do, then they better have a AWESOMASGASTNIFICANT ending and cutscenes with a extremely brain eating final boss that will make you think about ME3 the whole day.

[Kuari999]

*sigh* I seriously think people are seriously underestimating BioWare... they didn't go through all this effort in ME2 to make it all pointless... same in ME1. They've said this is all supposed to come together in ME3, but people insist on believing otherwise.

[Poison_Berrie]

Uh... Unique lines were mostly reserved for character specific mission (recruit and loyalty) and a few places in the story. All other dialogue is non-essential or interchangeable.

[TyDurden13]

Kuari999 wrote...

sbear3737 wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

magicalpoop wrote...

Dude, they get you killed before you can even fire your pistol. What do you think they WONT do? Nothing.
Thats just like missing for 4 years and then meeting any of your love interests, they don't give a ****...
How about that? Bioware's writting is bizzare. They like to mess with your feelings.

Samara is 1000 years old. Asari only live to around 1000 years old. So what? Grunt doesn't say **** for the entire game except that momentary PMS episode. NO ONE really says anything except Legion/Tali/Miranda.
Beyond their loyalty missions, I sometimes forgot they even existed (i.e. Jack)

Pulling the same thing twice is kind of lame though, especially in a game where choices are supposed to matter in the next game...  Also..

http://masseffect.bi...e/squad/samara/

Age: Estimated 600 human years

pretty sure she's a lot older than 600, she spent 400 years pursuing Morinth, meaning Morinth had  to be at least 100 by the time she left and ran, and Samara wouldn't have had Morinth at 100, let alone become a justicar at 200 (too early). The 1000 estimate is pretty reasonable.

....its the fricken OFFICIAL MASS EFFECT 2 WEBSITE!!!  Are you flippin' dense?  Look at the link, lower left.  Your estimate is garbage when compared to the official website.

Well, to be fair, the offical web site is a little wonky when it comes to character ages.  For example it says Grunt is 22, which is definitely wrong.  It also says Zaeed is 40.  Unlikely, considering in ME humans live to about 150  - and Miranda is 35.  Is Zeed really only 5 years older than Miranda?  Thise must have been a rough 5 years.