376 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Since every former squadmate has fans, BioWare would want to make them playable as squadmates in ME3. On the other hand, since almost everyone may be killed, they won't commit much resources to any particular character. Therefore, this is how I think it may work:

In ME2 we have these "loyalty missions", where the game brings a particular character by default, and the second squadmate you can choose to your liking. Something similar is possible for ME3. Shepard will be visiting many places in order to unite forces for the final showdown with the Reapers. When visiting certain places, he'll be meeting old squadmates, that are alive, and NPCs that are alive. For examle: On the Migrant Fleet he'll meet Tali if she's alive and Kal'Reegar, if he is alive. If Tali is alive, she joins Shepard for one or two missions. If Tali is dead, Kal'Reegar joins. Or the player can choose one of them. If both are dead, the Quarian mission is unavailable, you've screwed too much, Quarians won't help to fight the Reapers, live with the consequences. After the completion of the mission Tali/Kal'Reegar says "good bye, it was nice to meet you, I'll send you an e-mail."

The characters that can't die over the course of ME1&2 will be returning as full-time squadmates. These will probably include Liara, Ashley/Kaidan and Legion (a back-up copy of them, in case their platform was lost on the suicide mission)

Sure enough, we may be getting a couple of brand new characters as squadmates. Maybe Anto or another Batarian, lent to Shepard by Aria T'Loak. Mordin's nephew sounds great too.

Finally there will probably be more characters recruitable, than permanent "slots" on Shepard's team, which may facilitate some of ME2 squadmates (that don't get their plot exclusive missions) to return and be like Zaeed - no actual dialogue options or only a few of them, just giving their opinions and providing firepower on the missions.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2010 - 11:26 .

[Zulu_DFA]

poisonoustea wrote...

These will probably include Liara, Ashley/Kaidan and Legion

Legion can be given to Cerberus, so - following your hypothesis - no Legion.

And I doubt I'd be buying ME3 if my teammates were Kaidan and Liara while Tali, Garrus, Jack and other people for whom I spent some serious time and empathy won't be returning.

As for Legion, you could avoid recruiting Garrus in ME1. Was it accounted for in ME2?
And BioWare loves the Geth, almost as much as talimancers love Tali, face it.
(Legion: "Shepard-Commander, hello! TIM activated us and we told him we were stalking you specifically because you oppose the Old Machines, blah-blah-blah... TIM sends us to you, so that you'd be sure to have a geth squaddie in ME3")

As for ME2 LI, as I said, they may have a "playable cameo" for an hour or two of gameplay. And your petty love affairs are pretty irrelevant when the giant cyber-locust are swarming the Galaxy, face it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 22 février 2010 - 11:51 .

[guru7892]

Zaeed, Miranda and Jacob are all cerberus; so they probably wont return.

Mordin is a scientist and he might have other stuff to do, he also has loyalties to salarians.

sammara/morinth may not stick around, Samara because of her code, Morinth because shes a murderous-nymphomaniac.

thane is going to die

Legion isn't really a character since the geth lack individuality (I personally find the concept of an electronic perfect democracy the most dangerous social-political outcome for a species. The geth's manufactured nature and lack of individuality are the only reasons I can deduce that they have not fallen into irrationality). the Geth are basically immortal, so he will return, but hes not really a character either... and he could also rejoin the geth.

Grunt has a lot of offers for breeding. I don't think he's gonna stick around.

Subject Zero, Garrus, and Tali all have much better potential to return in ME3 as Mates

Subject Zero is a Criminal and she seems more like the "Why the Hell not?" type. Honestly there is no reason why she wouldn't join up with Shepard again.

Tali belongs to the Normandy so she will probably stay on as a squad mate for that reason. or shes banned from the flotilla and that was probably your fault so shes staying with you now. (she would only leave if she could get her own ship and join the flotilla)

Garrus is a vigilante, no he's more like F***ing batman with a Sniper rifle. oh and he also has no reason to not return as a squad mate.

you see they really didn't put themselves in a hole; even though i would've liked half the characters and twice the development. although I might change my mind if ff13 is horrible and abhorrent. although Ill be focusing primarily on character development and design, and not the things that make me shy away from J-rpgs (and most Japanese media in general, but I do have exceptions to that rule, like the fact that giant robots are awesome).

Modifié par guru7892, 22 février 2010 - 12:05 .

[Twigginater]

I think the end game will bring most people back.

Ashley/Kaiden is a given.
Liara is a given.

Both were left out of this game on perfect.

I think most gamers will have kept Grunt/Wrex alive. Canon had Wrex die, if you kept niether alive, you have the other leader of the Urdnot clan to help you.

Similarly Thane is dead, if there's a time gap (I imagine there is) so his son can join up. (Is there a way he could die, I don't think so)

Mordin was alive on my game, but he could easily die (apparently he dies really easily) so perhaps he'll have a smaller role, he might have simply died of old age, but if he's working on the genophage, perhaps he leaves a recording or if he died on the mission the Omega clinic guy will be with you.

That gives you:

Ashley/Kaiden
Liara
A Krogan
Thanes son

as party members. Add in two new characters I think will be introduced and that's a good enough party for ME3 for new players. A minimum party say.

I think after all the time developing Miranda/Jacob they'll be back. If they died on your game obviously they won't be, but I can't imagine them leaving them out. They probably won't be integral to the story ( I don't think anyone will be integral this time) but they'll be there.

I imagine Tali/Legion/Garus are integral to the story, as in they're the people who will represent thier races. Legion for the Geth (even if he died, he'd be easy to bring back, just "download" his memories into a new unit. Tali may have died, but if she did, and you ****ed up replace her with that guy who you saved on her mission, of the guy you rescued at the start of the game. If you didn't save Garrus don't know who could replace him really.

I expect that's how it'll go.

[Twigginater]

As for Jack or Samara I wouldn't mind seeing spin offs of them. This game world is much to interesting to leave after Shepards story. There's so much awesome stuff to do.

[Azriel86]

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission. If you want to include the possible death of Shepard in that, there are 78 possible outcomes.  Unfortunately, Bioware does not have the time or man power to produce a game that is customized to everyone's story.

If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

So, in conclusion, the development process required for including every permutation of surviving squad members is too large if anyone expects this game in the next decade. Id expect LI from ME1(Kaiden/Ashley and Liara) to be included in ME3, but dont be surprised when a major ambush at the beginning of ME3 kills your LI (if you chose to pick a new one in ME2) from ME2, along with the rest of your squadmates. Making a brief cinematic that takes into account all permutations will be a lot easier than making an entire new game with all the permutations covered.

As for the main character, Id say all evidence points to us playing as Conrad Verner in ME3 (kidding, kidding:P)

Why do you say Tali is gonna appear in ME3 if she died in your game? Ashley died in my ME1 playthrough and didn't show up in ME2. That's the whole point. I think the most realistic outcome is that NONE of the squad members from ME2 will be squad members in ME3. I do think Bioware will go to great lengths with the last game of the trilogy but they will go the distance. Of course I hope I will be able to have Garrus and Tali and Liara in my squad in ME3 but we also need to be realistic.
If,however, Bioware will begin ME3 the way you think they will, they will officially kill the franchise. The point of importing your save between games is to feel like you've personally made an impact on the world. The next game begins by totally disregarding that? Well I think there will be alot of furiously angry fans.

[DuffyMJ]

I think, realistically, the voice actor costs are too great. However, a few caveats...



For one, it's been said that ME3 will not use a "gimmick" like Shepard coming back to life to reset your character. In other words, I'm pretty confident, personally, that the game is going to start you off with the exact level and stats you already had which would naturally probably also apply to your team, I would imagine...



Another thing is, ME2 dramatically reduced squad conversations (amongst each other on missions) as well as making dialog mostly a Shepard + squadmate the mission is focused on while the second squad mate just sort of hangs out quietly. This kind of dynamic drastically reduces the amount of voice acting that needed to be done in ME2 compared to 1, and they may have done that not just to save money on ME2 but to make ME3 feasible.



Further, bringing back squad mates doesn't require "all or nothing". There is no reason to assume, for instance, that "only" Tali or Garrus could make a return while Thane, Samara, Legion, or others never return. I really don't think they're going to cut Tali just because of the overwhelming fan demands. Remember, they "wrote her out' in part 1 because she was supposed to return to the flotilla with geth data or continue the pilgrimage after the mission whereas other characters like Ash/Kaiden, Liara weren't written out at all.



I really don't know what to think. I'm more than sure Liara is going to return, and I also suspect Anderson for some reason (though it might just be crazy talk, I found it telling that Shep asked him to come with him in ME2). Besides that it's up in the air. I'd really dig more continuity and less new, though.

[Knoll Argonar]

It's not that difficult, you just have to do the same they did with Wrex, but with Squadmates instead of NPC, and not with every character.



Not every character in ME has to play a big role in ME3. There are major characters, like Tali, Wrex and Legion, that represent not just one character, but and entire race outcome. Having or not having these characters alive may change some point of the story, just like Grunt's and Mordin's loyalty missions did. There is no real point to not have them with you, since if you have them alive, they are useful for story. if you don't, they'll just stay dead and there will be and alternative solution to the same problem.



There are other characters, like Jack and Garrus, that are just characters, so being alive and in your crew wouldn't affect the plot that much.



There are not that many different combinations as the OP states, and it's not impossible at all. In fact, it's easier than just create 10 new squad members, because Bioware has the characters already created.



Anyway, as much as I would like to see that all squad members stay as squad members in ME3, and that some of them play a major role, I would also like that there are more "game overs" this time around. If you were an ass, Killed the Rachni, told quarians and geth to go at war, etc. I would like to see that this Shepard dies and Reapers win.

[dinin70]

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

Why?

Because the suicide mission leaves a immense amount of variability to the story. There are 11 squad members for the suicide mission (including Zaeed DLC). There are 66 different combinations of squad members to have live/die through the suicide mission. If you want to include the possible death of Shepard in that, there are 78 possible outcomes.  Unfortunately, Bioware does not have the time or man power to produce a game that is customized to everyone's story.

If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

So, in conclusion, the development process required for including every permutation of surviving squad members is too large if anyone expects this game in the next decade. Id expect LI from ME1(Kaiden/Ashley and Liara) to be included in ME3, but dont be surprised when a major ambush at the beginning of ME3 kills your LI (if you chose to pick a new one in ME2) from ME2, along with the rest of your squadmates. Making a brief cinematic that takes into account all permutations will be a lot easier than making an entire new game with all the permutations covered.

As for the main character, Id say all evidence points to us playing as Conrad Verner in ME3 (kidding, kidding:P)

1st of all: if Shepard dies you won't be able to import the save. You will have to create a New Shepard.

2nd, you are correct saying that there are too much scenarios to keep everyone playable. BUT, why would Bioware create a game where 90% of it relies on team-building? Two outcomes possible:

a) they are creating a huge ME3 with a correct continuity with ME2 and that would give back to Bioware the prestige they lost little by little after Baldur's Gate

they are just lazy bastards that created ME2 only to make money, because let's be honest, without team building part this game lasts 3 hours and could have been put straight away in the beggening of ME3.


But that's Bioware, and they will give us outcome a)! Or else... Well... I won't play anymore any Bioware game...

[anmiro]

I think there is a simple explanation for this and it is evident in ME2. All the characters on your crew have a place in the story of ME3 and if they died, some other characters is going to step in and fill that role. For example, you killed Wrex in ME1, his brother steps in and fills his role in ME2. Let Ashley die in ME1, Kaiden steps in and fills her role in ME2.



I do agree that these character will most likely not have any real impact on the story of ME3, but I have no doubt they will be joining us. The characters who will likely play a big part in the story of ME3 are people like Liara, Kaiden/Ashley, who were "benched" for this 2nd chapter because they had to survive for the continuity of ME3.

[anmiro]

dinin70 wrote...

they are just lazy bastards that created ME2 only to make money, because let's be honest, without team building part this game lasts 3 hours and could have been put straight away in the beggening of ME3.

I hear this a lot and I agree that this game really is just a giant recruitment mission. But you have to remember that this game can only be imported to ME3 if Shepard and some of his crew survive. The way I see it we aren't just recruiting for the suicide mission, this game is about putting together an amazing crew to combat the Reapers in ME3.

[Zulu_DFA]

wulf3n wrote...
there are 66 survivability outcomes,

Assuming Thane is dead (natural causes) by the start of ME 3 and Legion is "alive", even in the form of a back-up copy, there are 2048 possible combinations of survivng squadmates, ranging from 3 (Liara, Ashley/Kaidan, Legion) to 13 (all but the Virmired and Thane).

Assuming Legion can "die" (be dissassembled by Cerberus), Thane can be cured and Kasumi may be recruited for the suicide mission, there are 16384 possible combinations.

Provided non-recruitment = death, like with Wrex.

Good luck, BioWare.

[Nozybidaj]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Casey Hudson also said that Liara/Ash/Kaidan and Wrex play an important role in the story of ME2 (Liara's hacking quest?)

To be fair, Liara does, just not the story YOU want.

I iunderstand what you are saying there Kainry, I do, but you have to admit that it is the most disingenuous play on words someone could have made.  Right up there with "second part of a 3 act romance".

It is one thing to be evasive and quite another to be ouright misleadful.

[blank1]

I don't think it's as complicated as people are making it seem.

The characters with obvious write-outs won't be returning as squad members, though they'll likely make a cameo in one way or another. Samara needs to get back to being Justicar, Thane is going to die in a year or less from the time ME2 happened, Zaeed and Kasumi are DLC, and Mordin is 50... most Salarians die at age 40 -- he's about to croak.

I think ME3 is going to take a mixture of two themes: "Rally the troops," and "Stop galactic civil war." We're obviously going to need a lot of dudes with a lot of ships to fight the Reapers... so having the Citadel, Migrant Fleet, Geth, and Krogan on the same page will likely be essential. Depending on your ME1 morality, you might have the Rachni too. The problems are that, the Quarians are going to want to try to retake their planet from the Geth, the Citadel likely considers you a dangerous fugitive and may or may not be blasting your image as a "terrorist," and the Krogan are likely going to cure the genophage and there may or may not be a major incident because of this.

If Tali is alive and unexiled, she will be an Admiral and you'll have a large amount of sway. If Tali is alive and exiled, she will have proved herself worthy to join the Flotilla again, and you might be able to use her for a smaller amount of influence. If she died, you're going to have to pull something out of your ass to influence the Admiralty, or choose a side in their battle for their homeworld. If Wrex is alive, you'll have major influence over the Krogan. If Wrex is dead, but Grunt is alive, you'll have less influence. If they're both dead... hope you don't might spending an evening perpetrating genocide. 

Shepard's journey in ME3 might look like either killing or convincing the Spectre sent after him (I'm guessing it's going to be Ashely or Kaidan), destroying Cerberus once and for all (I think TIM will betray even a fully renegade Shep, for excuse of him gather too much influence), convincing the Quarians and Geth to make peace, or choosing a side in the conflict, using your pull with Grunt or Wrex to keep the Krogan from going on a galactic rampage, or fighting to put the Krogan down again, then finally the confrontation with the Reapers, where you use all your alliances. The Rachni would be a 100% given to be on your side TBH, since the queen basically adores Shepard.

No idea how Liara is going to fit in. I'm guessing your going to have to kill the Shadow Broker at some point.

Modifié par blank1, 22 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[CakesOnAPlane]

No they cannot feasibly bring back everyone with alot of good dialogue.



But I think there will be 4/5 people from ME2 who stay with you as squadmates (if they survived for you) and the others like Samara will maybe have a cameo quest. That way there is a feeling of continuity without having to do insane amounts of work.

[-D-C-D-]

cashogy wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

cashogy wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

BioWare has said numerous times that this trilogy is "Shepard's story" as such if Shepard dies in your ME2 game you will not be able to import that save game. You will definitely be Shepard in ME3 not some other person.

I know Bioware has said that this is Shepard's story.  However, I dont understand why theyd include the possibilty of Shepard dying, and then state that his living/dying will have consequences later, if they were just going to keep him alive in ME3 regardless. If they do that it leaves a lot of plot holes for people whose Shepard does die

for the effect of it being a suicide mission duh

So after Shepard dies thats it? The Reapers can just come and kill everyone b/c Commander Shepard is the ONLY defense against them? That is a MAJOR plot hole

It's not a plothole, because it's not part of the PLOT. No Shepard=no plot. That's like watching an alternate ending in a film where the main character dies, and then arguing that the sequel to that film is inconsistent simply because of the alternate ending. Shepard isn't SUPPOSED to die. The "Shep Dies" ending is a glorified "Game Over" screen!

...and Shepard isn't the ONLY defense, but he is the sole person with the ability to unite different races against the oncoming threat. Most species now owe Shepard personally for something or another, so if he were to die, and someone else were to attempt to call in a favour that really is only owed to Shepard, the likelihood of them risking their own lives for some newcomer is considerably less.

No?

[Suron]

cashogy wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

cashogy wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

BioWare has said numerous times that this trilogy is "Shepard's story" as such if Shepard dies in your ME2 game you will not be able to import that save game. You will definitely be Shepard in ME3 not some other person.

I know Bioware has said that this is Shepard's story.  However, I dont understand why theyd include the possibilty of Shepard dying, and then state that his living/dying will have consequences later, if they were just going to keep him alive in ME3 regardless. If they do that it leaves a lot of plot holes for people whose Shepard does die

for the effect of it being a suicide mission duh

So after Shepard dies thats it? The Reapers can just come and kill everyone b/c Commander Shepard is the ONLY defense against them? That is a MAJOR plot hole

it's not a major plot-hole...it's no hole at ALL

use some common sense with the FACTS given you.

If you die in ME2..YOUR shepard is DEAD..and since ME is "shepards story"..YOUR SHEPARD died..so HIS STORY ended at the end of 2...being that shepard is dead (YOUR SHEPARD)...and being that the story IS ABOUT HIM...there is NO ONE ELSE FOR YOU TO PLAY IN ME3 TO SEE HOW IT TURNS OUT....which is why you can't import him....the story is over....who knows what woulda happened? it's irrelevant...as the person YOU ARE PLAYING..is dead...he's not floating around as some ghost.

Hey I think it'd be cool if they somehow worked into 3 even if you died in 2 that you just played someone else...but honestly....who would this person be?  why would we care about them after ME1-2??  if you actually THINK about it..it makes no sense to allow someone who's shepard died in 2 continue in 3....there's no attachment..nothing to care about...YOU ARE DEAD.

calling this a plot-hole does NOTHING but show your own lack of intelligence and understanding of what the a "plot-hole" really is.

just not being happy about it is opinion..and no argument there....but let's not throw things together to form some damn idiotic defense that has no basis in reality of the ME games and/or universe...because you want to argue your point.

[Edrick1976]

As much as I hope I am wrong I dont really see ANYONE from ME2 comming back for nothing more then a cameo.... I hope tali will be able to come on board and continue her LI but I really dont think that will happen....

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sure is a lot of butt hurt in this thread.

[deusofnull]

cashogy wrote...
If Tali died in my story, and she appears in ME3 regardless of the outcome of MY suicide mission, I will be disappointed in the continuity of the story. Even the possibilty of having Shepard die greatly complicates the development process for ME3. If Shepard is dead, who will we play as? If he dies in my game but I am FORCED to continue playing as Shepard in ME3, it seriously breaks coninuity of the story.

With this in mind, it is almost completely out of the question that the squad mates in ME2 will make anything more than brief cameo appearances or small, optional side quests. In all likelihood, we will be playing an entirely new character in ME3, possiblty another Spectre who has been in training while we've been romping around the galaxy in Shepard's shoes.

If you die in me2, you cant import to me3
plain and simple

[Harcken]

Whily I secretly hope that somehow Bioware will bring back all my characters with at least some having a major role, however, I very much doubted for the reasons the OP stated. At most, I'd assume Bioware will take two or three squad members that they assume most people saved and allow them to be recruitable, and make all the others appear as NPCs with a few lines if you saved them (hopefully not just an email).