376 réponses à ce sujet

[mundus66]

Collider wrote...

All squad mates returning is NOT a logistical nightmare. It is as a logistical nightmare as having ME2 squad mates in ME2. Who say the returning squad mates even need to make references that some did not survive the suicide mission? It's pretty simple how Bioware could do this. If a squad mate survived in ME2, they return either as a cameo or squad mate, preferably the latter. If they did not survive but would have served a notable position in the plot, they are replaced by an NPC that is not a squad mate. Just as Wrex was replaced by that Krogan on Tuchanka.

Those who had most squad mates die on the suicide mission should have to deal with the consequences. At the very worst, they can replay or reload a save, both of which are generally fun to do.

Also if you start playing from ME3 most if not all should be alive, so if you have a fail save, you could just make a new one.

[KainrycKarr]

Marta Rio wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

(2) is not a logistical nightmare. people are grossly over-exaggerating what it would take.

Well, what would it take?  If you include everyone, then for each scene/mission in the game, you would have to write out 14 different dialogue options (if you included all possible squadmates from ME1 & 2).  Also, in some cases, you would have to have different dialogue options based on events from previous games (LIs, deaths, big decisions, etc.).  This would lead to an exponential amount of new dialogue, much larger than the increase in dialogue options from ME1 to ME2.  Then you have to bring the voice actors in to record it all. 

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but there are tradeoffs to be made.  For example, you'd probably get fewer lines of dialogue per character.  It might extend the development time and cost beyond what the higher ups at Bioware/EA are comfortable with.  It'd be awesome if they could pull it off, it just doesn't seem that feasible to me.

Well, for one thing, there isn't character specific dialogue for every scene/mission in the game.

It's feasible because Bioware is only getting wealthier, more experienced, and overall better acquainted with what it takes to DO this stuff.

The VA's are better meshed with their various roles, characters, and the story, making it much easier to record.


Because of that familiarity, it makes the recording easier; it takes less recordings to get it right.

Again, it will be a HUGE project.

But remember. Bioware is also doing and MMO WITH FULLY VOICED NPC'S AND PC'S.

I do not know how many are familiar with MMO's, but to do that, is a MASSIVE and resource-hogging undertaking.

It is also proof that Bioware is more than capable of handling so much VA work.

[Barquiel]

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

no...I don't count on it

Characters can die in ME2 (=cameo role in other Bioware games: see Dragon Age Awakening, Mass Effect 1...fan favorites/LI's or not)
I don't think the devs will punish (only 2-3 available squadmates in ME3) anyone for something they did/did not in ME2, they want to sell their games after all.

[SmokePants]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Bioware has already stated they WANT to take the hard road and account for all the variables.

considering what has been achieved thus far with Mass Effect, it ain't that hard.

So, again.

If X character survived, X character continues as your squadmate for ME3.
IF X character died, they are replaced by Y character as your squadmate for ME3.

Will require a lot of resources. But not even close to impossible. Bioware isn't exactly a small and resource-strapped company.

I have no doubt that they'll "address" every variable, just like they've addressed variables from ME1 in ME2. E-mails. Wrex is interchangeable with his brood brother. Ashley and Kaiden interchangeable with each other. Liara gives you a peck if you were a LI. The council/Anderson/Udina... all completely irrelevant to the story.  Everything was "addressed".

It's all right there. Too many choose to ignore what's right in front of their face and would rather tra-la-la in fantasy land with their cut-out dolls, hosting imaginary tea parties.

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

The ME2 story revolved around
building the greatest team in the galaxy. Just "splitting up" in ME3
would render that story utterly meaningless.[/b]

No, the fact that all of them can die in ME2 is what rendered it utterly meaningless to ME3.  

They would either have to have cameos ala ME1 LI's in ME2 or each and everyone one of them will have to have a completely generic "red shirt" role in ME3 to make them easily replacable so that people who may or may not have a particualr character don't miss out on important story elements.

That's just plain untrue.

Shepard can die in ME2. This doesn't make it canon. Shepard is as mortal as any other ME2 character, yet if he dies, you simply can't import into ME3.

It would not be difficult to do the same with the more popular characters of ME2. not all of them, to be certain, but some of them.

I stand by all my points.

[KainrycKarr]

SmokePants wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Bioware has already stated they WANT to take the hard road and account for all the variables.

considering what has been achieved thus far with Mass Effect, it ain't that hard.

So, again.

If X character survived, X character continues as your squadmate for ME3.
IF X character died, they are replaced by Y character as your squadmate for ME3.

Will require a lot of resources. But not even close to impossible. Bioware isn't exactly a small and resource-strapped company.

I have no doubt that they'll "address" every variable, just like they've addressed variables from ME1 in ME2. E-mails. Wrex is interchangeable with his brood brother. Ashley and Kaiden interchangeable with each other. Liara gives you a peck if you were a LI. The council/Anderson/Udina... all completely irrelevant to the story.  Everything was "addressed".

It's all right there. Too many choose to ignore what's right in front of their face and would rather tra-la-la in fantasy land with their cut-out dolls, hosting imaginary tea parties.

Have fun with your pessimism. Bioware has a history of listening to it's fans and correcting it's mistakes.

I have provided more than enough arguments, yet I am hit with the same pessimism and shallow arguments.

[Nozybidaj]

SmokePants wrote...


I have no doubt that they'll "address" every variable, just like they've addressed variables from ME1 in ME2. E-mails. Wrex is interchangeable with his brood brother. Ashley and Kaiden interchangeable with each other. Liara gives you a peck if you were a LI. The council/Anderson/Udina... all completely irrelevant to the story.  Everything was "addressed".

This is my concern, that in order to "address" everything it all becomes even more generic than it is now.  I was very unhappy with that aspect of ME2 and I don't want to see it become even worse in ME3, though I don't really see a way around it at this point.

[Kenthen]

Marta Rio wrote...

If you include everyone, then for each scene/mission in the game, you would have to write out 14 different dialogue options (if you included all possible squadmates from ME1 & 2). 

Not only are you exaggerating since, again, in the end the squaddies don't and never did have all that much to say and they have even less to say about each other. Furthermore that's kinda how the game works anyway. Whenever you hear Garrus say something during a mission in ME2 there's one identical or almost identical line for every other squad member.

As for actual dialogue the workload would still end up being pretty much the same, two out of six ME1 characters are already in ME2 so that leaves four new NPCs.
For missions that relate directly to a certain NPC in some way there's usually more dialogue but then the conversation is never directed at your other squad member, he/she just throws in an interchangeable line every now and then.

Would it be more work though, yeah, sure it would. It's far from impossible and it's far from the nightmare people seem to think though.

Modifié par Kenthen, 08 février 2010 - 07:21 .

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I still think they should try and bring back everyone, and as many people to be recruitable if possible.



I don't care if it means the game won't come out till 2014. If you're ending a trilogy and thus a legacy, you should do it in a very big way.

[CarolSephard]

Nozybidaj wrote...

We found out about the Collectors, they are dead now.

Are you sure about that? nobody in bioware said that. I think you are right, but we will have to wait to be sure.

The same thing they were in ME1.

You can ask some squad members, you meet TIM, there's a lot of people talking about cerberus inside and outside the Normandy. In ME1 you had 2 secondary quests that explained nothing, it's not the same to me.

We did?

Yes. the cicle of destruction is the reaper's way of reproduction. It's not the only thing that it's said in the game, but only this is more that what we discovered in ME1.

They are all dead now.

If they are all dead, then your Shep too. That means it's the end of your story in ME, said by bioware, not by me.

By the way, don't feel i'm attacking to you or something like that. I wanted to leave that clear hehe

[Marta Rio]

KainrycKarr wrote...

But remember. Bioware is also doing and MMO WITH FULLY VOICED NPC'S AND PC'S.

I do not know how many are familiar with MMO's, but to do that, is a MASSIVE and resource-hogging undertaking.

It is also proof that Bioware is more than capable of handling so much VA work.

I'm not so familiar with MMOs (I'm a gaming loner), so you could be completely right about it.  I didn't realize they were doing that for the Star Wars MMO - if so, ME3 dialogue should be a cakewalk, right?

(mark this down: someone actually convinced someone on the internet of something using a logical argument )

[Nozybidaj]

KainrycKarr wrote...

That's just plain untrue.

Shepard can die in ME2. This doesn't make it canon. Shepard is as mortal as any other ME2 character, yet if he dies, you simply can't import into ME3.

It would not be difficult to do the same with the more popular characters of ME2. not all of them, to be certain, but some of them.

I stand by all my points.

Exactly, if your Shepard dies, every single choice you made in the game becomes completely irrelevant, game over.

Now if you are suggesting that if certain members of ME2 died that would prevent an import, that is certainly one way to handle it, but again, completely invalidates the choices you made. 

[NoBrandOnMe]

gutty47 wrote...

A number of characters from ME2 have 'outs' written for them already.
Samara - she will continue her justicar code.
Morinth - its extremely unlikely she'll stick around.
Thane - he iss a dead man.
Jack - unlikely to stick around, not guaranteed.
Mordin - could be reduced to just scientist on ship.
Grunt - could go back to Tuchanka.
and so on...

This reduces the possibilities to more manageable numbers. Plus they don't really have to worry about continuation past ME3.

I'm being optimistic but the pragmatist in me knows the odds...

Samara - Towards the end of her dialogue she says if you ever needed her after the suicide mission she would be there.
Thane- Didn't he say he still had time? I doubt he will die in the time between ME2 and ME3.
Grunt- You aree his battlemaster.

For the rest there is no reason for them to leave..

[KainrycKarr]

Marta Rio wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

But remember. Bioware is also doing and MMO WITH FULLY VOICED NPC'S AND PC'S.

I do not know how many are familiar with MMO's, but to do that, is a MASSIVE and resource-hogging undertaking.

It is also proof that Bioware is more than capable of handling so much VA work.

I'm not so familiar with MMOs (I'm a gaming loner), so you could be completely right about it.  I didn't realize they were doing that for the Star Wars MMO - if so, ME3 dialogue should be a cakewalk, right?

(mark this down: someone actually convinced someone on the internet of something using a logical argument )

Lol, it's true. I used to play Star Wars Galaxies, which WAS  a hugely successful mmo, until SOE annihilated their fanbase. Proof that not listening to your fans will ruin you.

also played WoW....for a month. I hate fantasy. But both games had very minimal VA work.

i didn't believe it when I heard Bioware was doing that much VA work for the MMO, but they confirmed it.

And yes...when compared with an MMO, doing that amount of VA work for returning or possible Squadmates and variations for Mass effect is rather easy.

It's more a matter of what Bioware wants to do with the story, in all actuality, and noone, myself included, can truly predict that.

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

That's just plain untrue.

Shepard can die in ME2. This doesn't make it canon. Shepard is as mortal as any other ME2 character, yet if he dies, you simply can't import into ME3.

It would not be difficult to do the same with the more popular characters of ME2. not all of them, to be certain, but some of them.

I stand by all my points.

Exactly, if your Shepard dies, every single choice you made in the game becomes completely irrelevant, game over.

Now if you are suggesting that if certain members of ME2 died that would prevent an import, that is certainly one way to handle it, but again, completely invalidates the choices you made. 

Well, the game is invalidated whether if you don't get your squad back.

your choices are invalidated if some of them are guaranteed to be back.

It's the lesser of two evils in my opinion, so keeping the most popular squaddies in my opinion results in the least negative feedback from fans.

[transhumanism]

With the exception of Garrus, i really don't care what happens to the ME1 squad mates and LIs. the ME2 squaddies are just so much more dynamic and interesting. Jacob is WAY better developed that Kaiden, Miranda could wipe the floor with Ashley, Grunt is like the most violent guy ever, Jack has PTSD, Thane is actually someone you can truly empathize with, and Legion is a Geth Mordin is brilliant and former STG. Samara, i can take or leave, but the over all ME2 squad has some of the best developed characters in all of gaming. besides Garrus, who i"ll bro out with for life, ME1 is kinda bleh. Who wants some whiney quarrian refugees when you can have the Geth nation on your side

[NoBrandOnMe]

Barquiel wrote...

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

no...I don't count on it

Characters can die in ME2 (=cameo role in other Bioware games: see Dragon Age Awakening, Mass Effect 1...fan favorites/LI's or not)
I don't think the devs will punish (only 2-3 available squadmates in ME3) anyone for something they did/did not in ME2, they want to sell their games after all.

If you actually let ALL of your squad die in ME2 you deserve to only have 2-3 squadies in ME3. Honestly.

[Nozybidaj]

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

no...I don't count on it

Characters can die in ME2 (=cameo role in other Bioware games: see Dragon Age Awakening, Mass Effect 1...fan favorites/LI's or not)
I don't think the devs will punish (only 2-3 available squadmates in ME3) anyone for something they did/did not in ME2, they want to sell their games after all.

If you actually let ALL of your squad die in ME2 you deserve to only have 2-3 squadies in ME3. Honestly.

As long as those squadies are Liara and Tali and the game revloves around them for me I am completely okay with that.

[marsty]

tali might not go back to the quarians because if you screw up her loyalty mission she gets exiled from the fleet but i dont really like her anyway because legion is far cooler

[KainrycKarr]

Nozybidaj wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

cashogy wrote...

Don't count on it.

no...I don't count on it

Characters can die in ME2 (=cameo role in other Bioware games: see Dragon Age Awakening, Mass Effect 1...fan favorites/LI's or not)
I don't think the devs will punish (only 2-3 available squadmates in ME3) anyone for something they did/did not in ME2, they want to sell their games after all.

If you actually let ALL of your squad die in ME2 you deserve to only have 2-3 squadies in ME3. Honestly.

As long as those squadies are Liara and Tali and the game revloves around them for me I am completely okay with that.

You know what? I agree.

in spite of all my arguments and whatnot, the bottom line is I only care about Tali returning as a squadmate and LI.

Liara deserves it out of fairness. her character in ME2 is ATROCIOUS.

[Barquiel]

Nozybidaj wrote...

As long as those squadies are Liara and Tali and the game revloves around them for me I am completely okay with that.

I need Miranda and Liara , but I still think we'll get some new squadmates...

[bobito64]

This squad was recruited for one mission only. It is highly unlikely that they will still be around for the next. Cameo appearances by some of them perhaps, but that's all.The only two characters that were squadmates in both ME 1 and 2 were ones that could not die in the first game. For that reason, I suspect that the most likely return party member in ME3 is Liara.

[marsty]

i would like grunt thane miranda and legion to return but given all of the possible ways they could leave the normandy i doubt that would happen

[NoBrandOnMe]

bobito64 wrote...

This squad was recruited for one mission only. It is highly unlikely that they will still be around for the next. Cameo appearances by some of them perhaps, but that's all.The only two characters that were squadmates in both ME 1 and 2 were ones that could not die in the first game. For that reason, I suspect that the most likely return party member in ME3 is Liara.

So you are saying we if none of our squad died we will get a nice cameo appearance from 11 ME2 squadies and 2-3 ME1 squadies while each and every one of them have an excuse to not help save the galaxy? Unless everyone just dies.. its highly doubted.

[marsty]

hell the game is either going to take like 5 years to make if they bother doing all those outcomes from the second game or not bother doing it like just big decisions you made