81 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Is this true? I was under the impression if your actual team for the last boss wasn't loyal, they'd kick the bucket too. I've never tested this, as I don't feel like intentionally screwing up just to see if the theory is true.

if you have non loyal team mates in your party to fight the last boss, they will die.

100% confirmed.

Ouch.  Still, I wish a dev could explain the random Mordin/Tali casualities, as it's incredibly frustrating to do everything right, and then have your 'No One Left Behind' ruined by someone randomly kicking the bullet for no rational reason.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

im curious to know which 2 squaddies people take into the last confrontation.

im willing to bet this has an effect on the random death at the end.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Heartlocker wrote...

For me, it's Garrus & Tali. Garrus for he is a bad-ass. Tali is my romance option.

which one was your random death with this combo. mordin?

[Meister Kreig]

TC here is just finding what increases survival chance. A nice idea as that builds later into complete knowledge of the last mission.



The Prima guide is not very good and seems rushed so I'm not surprised it is wrong.

[TheLostGenius]

 I did. I was paragon and did all the loyalty quests before the mission. I liked miranda and also made sure she was the lead of the other team...send Mordin back with the crew because seemed like he would die on his own for some reason. So basically I instinctively saved everyone on my first playthrough. On subsequent plathroughs crew members die because I usually go questing before I do the final mission. Dunno why, I just don't care.

[vigna]

I'm almost through my second play through. The first time Jack was not loyal because of the Miranda fight. She had upgrades , but died--I didn't make her the head of any mission. I think that may be because I dallied getting there completing Legion's quest, and half the crew died as well. No one else bit it though. So, I think it may be upgrades, loyalty, and time.

Edit* I take back the personal upgrade thing because the fight was directly after her loyalty mission I never got the upgrade line of questioning from her.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

Modifié par vigna, 08 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Heartlocker wrote...

Mordin and Legion, Legion once, Mordin twice when I left OUT their personal upgrades.

did you use garrus as any of your team leaders?

maybe having your fireteam leaders not stay back with the rest of the crew has an effect on random deaths.

[Gerse1]

Hmm, the more I read on this the more the deaths DO seem random (aside from obvious things like sending Jack as your tech specialist or something). If that's the case, then I am actually disappointed, because that seems to defeat the giant 'LOYALTY' premise of the game. Sure their loyalty status may affect which one has a greater chance of dying, but that's an unrealistic connection (loyalty tied to chance), which is why it bothers me.

It seems to take the roleplaying out of it a lot. What's the point of getting to know your characters and thinking critically about whom to assign to the different squads if there's such a high chance of random death? Same thing for the human-reaper battle, where if they aren't loyal they die. They "die" because they are crushed by chunks of collector ship. Yet it's like their loyalty, what, gives them the will to live? Maybe it goes back to the personal upgrades thing, but not all of those involved armor.

Basically, it's like they decided to use loyalty as a game mechanic but the manner in which they used it was illogical. For example a logical use could be there is a situation where the second squad leader has an opportunity to save someone, but doesn't book it to the door fast enough if they aren't loyal, because they just don't care enough. Something like that.


FYI only legion died my first playthrough, everyone lived my second play through (but I had as many upgrades as I could find and all loyalties).

Modifié par Gerse1, 08 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[vigna]

You know the more I think of it the personal upgrade thing makes sense, but I also think time plays a factor. Time before the mission and during.

[Gerse1]

Plusall these theories floating about -- loyalty, plus upgrades personal and ship, time before the mission, time during the mission, LI status, random death generator, etc etc etc....some like the ship upgrades are obvious and proven, but I'm kind of skeptical whether the factors behind the deaths are really as sophisticated as *all* of that together. I'd be pretty impressed.

[Forsakerr]

the other day someone mentioned that it could be because the longer the final fight lasts the more chance you have that someone will die even if everyone is loyal , in a fight i had Mordin that died because my fight was longer (was playing an adept in my second playtrough so it took longer than my soldier's one which no one died) i reloaded and i killed the reaper with my heavy weapon which made the fight way shorter and no one died

edit: typoe

Modifié par Forsakerr, 08 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Forsakerr wrote...

the other day someone mentioned that it could be because the longer the final fight lasts the more chance you have that someone will die even if everyone is loyal , in a fight i had Mordin that died because my fight was longer (was playing an adept in my second playtrough so it took longer than my soldier's one which no one died) i reloaded and i killed the reaper with my heavy weapon which made the fight way shorter and no one died

edit: typoe

ive had both mordin and jack both randomly die after i dispatched the terminator within minutes (epic 4-shot grenade launcher to blast the injection tubes in one pass)

[Superkenru]

Has anyone chosen different infiltration tactics before beginning the mission? (ie. having somone hack the door, using the ventilations shaft, or blowing the doors open? I've chosen all other options other than blowing the doors open.



On 2 attempts, whomever I assigned to "hack" the door, wound up being shot in the head trying to force them close when they get stuck. Couldn't this choice, as well with who you have chosen as your squad leaders, affect the outcome?



I do admit that the deeper we delve into this topic, the more random it seems. However, I haven't seen anyone on this thread address their initial choices at the onset of the mission. What do you guys think and what did you guys choose? Did anyone blow the doors?

[fett51]

Hnh. I've also purchased every personal upgrade, and in my first playthrough everything was fine. I'm just wrapping up my second, and garrus died holding the line. I reloaded and sent him back to the Normandy. Then legion bought it. Reloaded again and took Legion with me. Grunt dropped. Took Grunt and Legion. Jacob dropped. On the theory that you needed all three squad leaders at the doors, I sent Mordin back to the ship and took grunt and legion again. Garrus dropped. At which point I bashed my head into my monitor and came here. Annoyed does not begin to cover it.

For the record, I have every upgrade except I apparently missed the heavy pistol upgrade on haestrom, everyone's loyal, and judging from the wiki I picked the right specialists. No idea why it's so determined to kill one of my teammates.

Modifié par fett51, 08 février 2010 - 08:27 .

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Superkenru wrote...

Has anyone chosen different infiltration tactics before beginning the mission? (ie. having somone hack the door, using the ventilations shaft, or blowing the doors open? I've chosen all other options other than blowing the doors open.

On 2 attempts, whomever I assigned to "hack" the door, wound up being shot in the head trying to force them close when they get stuck. Couldn't this choice, as well with who you have chosen as your squad leaders, affect the outcome?

I do admit that the deeper we delve into this topic, the more random it seems. However, I haven't seen anyone on this thread address their initial choices at the onset of the mission. What do you guys think and what did you guys choose? Did anyone blow the doors?

yes the specialist role plays a great deal.

but this topic is not about that. this topic is about everyone picking the "correct roles" (specialist being tali or legion, locking the door successfully) yet still managing a random death at the end.


i chose "bomb the doors" on one playthru, but EDI told me it wasnt possible due to lack of explosives to do so, then shepard suggests using the vents. no matter what convo you choose, they all lead to the same thing (but thats not ruling out if they have some impact over the outcome)

[SidNitzerglobin]

Heartlocker wrote...

Here are some remarkable theories of others:

RiouHotaru:

Actually, I've gotten all the personal upgrades and what not, and yet somehow either Mordin or Tali randomly die while holding the door. I'm of the opinion it's a bug, because many folks have had either one die consistently, and some have never had a single casualty ever. There's possibly some random coding or variable that determines if one of them dies. (For example, in my first run, no one died, on my second, Mordin randomly keeled over but Tali was fine, on my third, Tali randomly bit the bullet, but not Mordin.

I went through 6 playthroughs of the first part of the suicide missions before I managed to get the door to close smoothly and my vent crawler through the first cut scene.  I had all team mates loyal, all ship upgrades, all armor and shield upgrades, all prototypes, and ~90% of the weapon upgrades.

I started out with the following:

Vents: Tali
2nd Team leader: Garrus
My Squad: Miranda and Grunt

The door wound up getting stuck and Tali took one in the face.  Played through with this same config 2 more times to see if it was just random and the door got stuck each time.

I then switched it up a bit and used the following:

Vents: Legion
2nd Team Leader:  Zaeed
My Squad: Miranda and Grunt

Same outcome twice.

I went back to the first config w/ Tali as duct rat, Garrus as 2nd team leader, and Miranda and Grunt in my squad and replied to Miranda's comment about everyone expecting this to be a one way trip after we crashed into the base with the "I'm not throwing my life away" response rather than the top right response that I had on my previous passes at this.  The door closed smoothly and Tali lived.

It could still be random and I just had really bad luck in my first five attempts, but I did run through this first part of the mission one more time using the "I'm not throwing my life away line" in the afformention dialog with Tali in the vents, Garrus as 2nd team leader, and Miranda and Grunt in my squad and Tali lived again.

Didn't run into any other problems w/ team mates dying with the following choices:

Crew Escort: Mordin
Biotic Barrier: Samara
2nd Team Leader: Garrus
My squad: Grunt and Miranda
Chose the "Hurry up"  dialog option rather than the "Hold the line" option after the biotic barrier section (not sure if that makes any difference or not).

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 08 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[RiouHotaru]

SidNitzerglobin wrote...

Heartlocker wrote...

Here are some remarkable theories of others:

RiouHotaru:

Actually, I've gotten all the personal upgrades and what not, and yet somehow either Mordin or Tali randomly die while holding the door. I'm of the opinion it's a bug, because many folks have had either one die consistently, and some have never had a single casualty ever. There's possibly some random coding or variable that determines if one of them dies. (For example, in my first run, no one died, on my second, Mordin randomly keeled over but Tali was fine, on my third, Tali randomly bit the bullet, but not Mordin.

I went through 6 playthroughs of the first part of the suicide missions before I managed to get the door to close smoothly and my vent crawler through the first cut scene.  I had all team mates loyal, all ship upgrades, all armor and shield upgrades, all prototypes, and ~90% of the weapon upgrades.

I started out with the following:

Vents: Tali
2nd Team leader: Garrus
My Squad: Miranda and Grunt

The door wound up getting stuck and Tali took one in the face.  Played through with this same config 2 more times to see if it was just random and the door got stuck each time.

I then switched it up a bit and used the following:

Vents: Legion
2nd Team Leader:  Zaeed
My Squad: Miranda and Grunt

Same outcome twice.

I went back to the first config w/ Tali as duct rat, Garrus as 2nd team leader, and Miranda and Grunt in my squad and replied to Miranda's comment about everyone expecting this to be a one way trip after we crashed into the base with the "I'm not throwing my life away" response rather than the top right response that I had on my previous passes at this.  The door closed smoothly and Tali lived.

It could still be random and I just had really bad luck in my first five attempts, but I did run through this first part of the mission one more time using the "I'm not throwing my life away line" in the afformention dialog with Tali in the vents, Garrus as 2nd team leader, and Miranda and Grunt in my squad and Tali lived again.

Didn't run into any other problems w/ team mates dying with the following choices:

Crew Escort: Mordin
Biotic Barrier: Samara
2nd Team Leader: Garrus
My squad: Grunt and Miranda
Chose the "Hurry up"  dialog option rather than the "Hold the line" option after the biotic barrier section (not sure if that makes any difference or not).

Yeah, I never had any problems with the everything else, EXCEPT when you had to take on the final boss and the rest of the team had to hold the door.  For me, only Mordin and Tali randomly died.  I seriously wonder if there's some random variable we're missing, or if it is just luck.

[SidNitzerglobin]

To me, the key to the dying tech specialist in in the cut scene following the vents seemed to be directly related to my choice in response to Miranda in the first bit of dialog after the crash.



Anybody else payed attention to their dialog choices in this scene and the pep talk before entering the base?

[ThrokRock]

Noone's speculated about the length of time your tech specialists spend cooking; even if you get them out with a little of that progress bar still left(DING HOTPAWKET) on enough of the vents it might flag the tech/vent person for death.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

ThrokRock wrote...

Noone's speculated about the length of time your tech specialists spend cooking; even if you get them out with a little of that progress bar still left(DING HOTPAWKET) on enough of the vents it might flag the tech/vent person for death.

i've literally outran my specialist opening each valve before she even gets there (geth shield + grenade launcher and inferno collector AR ftw).

she even has some added dialog (positive comments about you, instead of complaining LOL) if you do this


... still had a random death at the end

[SidNitzerglobin]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

ThrokRock wrote...

Noone's speculated about the length of time your tech specialists spend cooking; even if you get them out with a little of that progress bar still left(DING HOTPAWKET) on enough of the vents it might flag the tech/vent person for death.

i've literally outran my specialist opening each valve before she even gets there (geth shield + grenade launcher and inferno collector AR ftw).

she even has some added dialog (positive comments about you, instead of complaining LOL) if you do this


... still had a random death at the end

Yup, same deal here. Still had my tech specialist die 5 times until I changed dialog response, then was able to pull through 2 times in a row.