81 réponses à ce sujet

[Tahleron1]

Typically speaking, it's not the person who dies fault, for example, the door death is caused by the 2nd team not being suitable (for example, you'll hear them make a comment about coming under attack, but if its say Garrus, the comment is much more aligned to "being in control of the situation), it's their lack of cover that kills the door person.

[dragonic9100]

Sockwolf wrote...

It's an interesting theory. I bought no personal upgrades on my first playthrough.

Mordin (My tech specialist) died. It would be interesting to see if he would've lived with his upgraded Omni-Tool.

My only other casualty was Legion who died because I didn't upgrade the ship shields. What's weird about this is technically Tali should've died as Legion was (for no apparent reason) standing where she usually does. Tali was my LI though so maybe your LI gets a pass on any deaths in the suicide mission?

your tech specialist always dies unless its tali or legion

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Tahleron1 wrote...

Typically speaking, it's not the person who dies fault, for example, the door death is caused by the 2nd team not being suitable (for example, you'll hear them make a comment about coming under attack, but if its say Garrus, the comment is much more aligned to "being in control of the situation), it's their lack of cover that kills the door person.

it also factors in the skill of the decoder.

if you have a great 2nd team leader but a crappy techie, the techie dies due to a lack of being able to close the door in time.
so yes, it can be the persons own fault they die.

[dragonic9100]

i'm not a fan of personal upgrades and i've never lost a person, i chose legion as my tech specialist, zaeed to lead the crew to normandy, garrus as both squad leaders, samara as the biotic, and i always get the upgraded kinetic barriers, thanix cannon, and heavy armor

[Kuari999]

I still wonder how many of these random death people skipped speeches and such... because I'm pretty sure that has an effect.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

dragonic9100 wrote...



your tech specialist always dies unless its tali or legion

Yes but some people have had them die even when they've had a loyal Garrus or Miranda as 2nd squad leader. Which is the main point of this topic in that there seems to be another 'part of the puzzle' that accounts for whether they survive or not.



@Amethyst when you did the crazy run with the geth shield, launcher, collector rifle and inferno armor did you slaughter all the collectors at the last valve?



I am wondering whether clearing a path at the last valve also makes a difference?



Going back to an earlier comment, considering some have suggested the pre-final battle speech can help/hinder the door defence party, perhaps may also be right about the pre-suicide mission speech one could too?

[SidNitzerglobin]

Kuari999 wrote...

I still wonder how many of these random death people skipped speeches and such... because I'm pretty sure that has an effect.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking as well, but no one mentions what dialog options they chose.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Going back to an
earlier comment, considering some have suggested the pre-final battle
speech can help/hinder the door defence party, perhaps may also be
right about the pre-suicide mission speech one could too?

It certainly appeared to be so in my first play through (although not the speech, the answer to Miranda while you're still in the cockpit).

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 08 février 2010 - 11:10 .

[wolfbane5]

I just finished the game myself. I had researched or bought every single upgrade you can get. All members (incl. Zaeed) were loyal. All missions were 100% finished. I chose Jacob to go through the vents, Miranda to lead the 2nd team and Grunt/Thane were with me. When closing the doors Jacob died which made no sense to me. Next, I sent the crew back with Zaeed, Miranda led the 2nd team, I swapped Thane out for Jack and Samara powered the biotic field. In the end, no one died (incl. Shepard) except for Jacob. Considering I'd completed everything in the game, I don't understand why Jacob died. But as I read this thread it seems like its a bit more random than I had thought previously. Who doesn't die at the doors?

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

@Amethyst when you did the crazy run with the geth shield, launcher, collector rifle and inferno armor did you slaughter all the collectors at the last valve?

i left many collectors behind. not only the last valve but even before that.

not sure if that has an effect.

[Rustedknight]

Jacob is not a techy. Only Tali and legion have a chance at not ending up dead.

[Ari Kagura]

Kuari999 wrote...

I still wonder how many of these random death people skipped speeches and such... because I'm pretty sure that has an effect.

I kind of wondered if that's part of it ... I do know that I tend to talk to Mordin more than any of the other crew, despite not being a love interest. I guess it's just courtesy-- you barge into his little space so you can upgrade your squad. At least have a bit of decency to say hello to the guy that operates on the genophage and other biological stuff.

Since then, I haven't had Mordin die randomly through my playthroughs.

[SidNitzerglobin]

Heartlocker wrote...

As a matter of fact, I mentioned in the earlier posts that perhaps talking fully with the crew, prior and during the mission MIGHT affect the result.

Like I said, perhaps BW just bottled it down to some random numbers and decisions rather than things we came up with on our own. 

Yeah, I just meant more generally that most people don't seem to think that it might be a determining factor in the "random" deaths so they don't list their dialog decisions. 

From my limited perspective, the only change I made to have the exact same combination of personnel/upgrades/loyalty complete the vents section successfully was dialog. 

It's possible that it was just a fluke of the RNG, but it would be interesting to get more data points on which pre- and intra-mission dialog choices people made.

[Kuari999]

Heartlocker wrote...

Ari Kagura wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

I still wonder how many of these random death people skipped speeches and such... because I'm pretty sure that has an effect.

I kind of wondered if that's part of it ... I do know that I tend to talk to Mordin more than any of the other crew, despite not being a love interest. I guess it's just courtesy-- you barge into his little space so you can upgrade your squad. At least have a bit of decency to say hello to the guy that operates on the genophage and other biological stuff.

Since then, I haven't had Mordin die randomly through my playthroughs.

Interesting point, as I always spoke to Mordin myself, actually..to EVERYONE after every little side-quest or main quest, just to be nice. I lost no one. But the other saves loaded for testing, I ignored the crew and luck as it, i neglected alot of people.

I am inclinced to believe talking to people, knowing more about them and history will give a positive outcome, beside the loyality mission, you and the person in question are acquintated and dedicated. Like Jacob when you give that gangsta/brother hug, that signified that he would go to great lengths.

Well, I'm also referring to the motivational speech you give before the mission and to the people holding the line, but yeah

[ifander]

Heartlocker wrote...

Like I said, perhaps BW just bottled it down to some random numbers and decisions rather than things we came up with on our own. 

If that's the case then whoever came up with the idea is an idiot. It would basically mean that even if the most appropriate squadmates are chosen, survival is not certain. Having a random death just for the hell of it is just silly, especially when there's an acheivment involved (not that I give a damn about acheivments, but still).

On my first playthrough everyone was loyal, I had all the ship upgrades and most of the weapon/armor/prototype upgrades save for Legion's rifle. I had Miranda lead the second team both times and Legion went in the vent. I had Thane and Grunt with me on the first run, and swapped out Thane for Jack on the second and had him escort the survivors (all of them survived). In the end only Mordin died, despite his upgrade. Had I had him on my team he might have survived, but I figured I should go with a well-rounded team; it never occurred to me that I might have to babysit anyone.

Oh, and I went with the "We all knew the risks"-choice when approaching the Collector base, which in hindsight might have been a bad idea... And I had a long paragon speech before the final run.

Modifié par ifander, 08 février 2010 - 11:30 .

[Cypher0020]

Interesting theories. I had max loyalty, and ship upgrades and no character upgrades.



Had Tali in the vents, Miranda as both fireteam leaders, Jacob as escort, Samara with the bubble, and Mordin and Jack with me to defeat the boss and I got everyone out plus crew



Soooo good strategy or a bug? Could reload and try Legion on vents or Jack with the barrier I suppose

[Looy]

I think speeches may have an effect on random deaths. I played through 3 times so far on my first and third play throughs I gave a full speech and no one died at the door, on my second play through I skipped the speech and Jack(non-loyal) died.



It may also have something to do with who died previously:

1st playthrough: Lost Jacob and Thane, nobody died while holding door.

2nd playthrough: Didn't lose anyone, but then Jack died holding the line.

3rd playthrough: Lost Thane and nobody died while holding the door.

[2342]

I explored 100% of the galaxy and did all the N7 missions I could. Got all the squad and ship upgrades. Did all squad loyalty missions and dialogues. I got most of the weapon upgrades. I chose Garrus to lead both fire teams, Legion went though the vents, Samara as my biotic specialist, and Miranda and Grunt were in my squad the whole way through. And since I was paragon on this file I probably chose the top right on all my dialogues.Everyone lived.



My theory is that the "random" factor might be how much of the game you've completed. In the first game there was an achievement for completing most of the game so maybe the No One Left Behind achievement is this games Completionist achievement?

[stillnotking]

I have done three full playthroughs. In none of them did I lose anyone. I tend to kill the last boss very quickly (with the Cain and/or Widow) and I suspect that has something to do with it. Either that, or it is purely random and I've just been lucky.

First playthrough (Veteran): Legion in vents, Garrus/Miranda team leaders, Grunt escort
Second playthrough (Insanity): Tali in vents, Jacob/Miranda team leaders, Mordin escort
Third playthrough (Insanity): Tali in vents, Garrus/Miranda team leaders, Zaeed escort (I was actually hoping I'd see the random Mordin death on this one)

Anyway... just a few more data points. I always give the Paragon pep talk on a Paragon playthrough and the Renegade pep talk on a Renegade playthrough. I doubt that makes any difference though. I have also chosen both "move quickly" and "hold the door" right before the last sequence.

Edit: I am playing on the PC, also.  Has anyone had Mordin die at the end on the PC?  Perhaps it's a platform-specific bug.

Modifié par stillnotking, 09 février 2010 - 12:11 .

[RPGmom28]

Mordin or Tali also die for me alternately despite having their loyalty missions complete and everyone in the squad's missions completed. Legion goes through the shafts, Miranda leads the one team and Garrus the other. Jack does the biotic bubble. And yes, I'm a PC player.

Modifié par RPGmom28, 30 mars 2012 - 11:44 .

[PsiFive]

RPGmom28 wrote...

Mordin or Tali also die for me alternately despite having their loyalty missions complete and everyone in the squad's missions completed. Legion goes through the shafts, Miranda leads the one team and Garrus the other. Jack does the biotic bubble. And yes, I'm a PC player.

Do you have Zaeed and/or Kasumi? And who do you send back to the Normandy to escort Dr Chakwas and any surviving kidnapped crew? If I remember this right this is what worked for me last time (everyone is loyal to Shep):

Final boss fight with Shepard:

• Jack
• Tali

Escort Chakwas and Normandy crew:

• Mordin

Hold The Line:

• Garrus (leader)
• Miranda
• Jacob
• Legion
• Kasumi
• Grunt
• Thane
• Zaeed
• Samara

If I understood the guide topic on this right I could have had one or two non-loyals, depending on who they are and what they're doing, or had supporting squadmates for Shepard with a bit more power, and still got everyone out alive. As long as the HTL team have a certain average 'gunfight value' (my words so if it's a poor term it's my fault) they all live, so it's all about leaving powerful ones in and sending weaker ones off to do other things. If you have Mordin, Kasumi, Tali and Jack then you can't avoid having at least one of them in the HTL team, but if the other three are off doing other things then you should be alright I think

[RPGmom28]

I have both Zaeed and Kasumi, and it alternates who I send to escort people. I had read something telling me that it didn't matter who I sent as an escort. Obviously I'm willing to believe that that's not true since Tali or Mordin keep dying. I'll try your plan this time. I don't think I've ever taken Tali to the final fight since she dies so easily.