50 réponses à ce sujet

[davidshooter]

rumination888 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

But see, here's the thing... the other classes, and even the Adept's other power(Warp), can "CC" one mob, too.
By killing it.

And here's another example of the all you have is warp post.

If you throw warp at a charging krogan you're dead, if you throw singularities and shoot, it's dead.  There are many uses for singularity over warp.  Snipering is another. 

Kind of hard for a Krogan to charge you when its already dead.

Let me see:

You say even the Adept's other power - warp - can stop a single enemy

I say no it can't stop a charging Krogan (as an example)

And then you say dead Krogan don't charge

Is that right?  Just checking........

[Lucazius]

Average Gatsby wrote...

gr00grams wrote...

My question, is why do people need vids to believe this stuff? Is simply stating how to do it not good enough anymore?

.

Some people want to believe that the adept is somehow weaker because they weren't successful with it. I'm currently doing my playthrough on insanity doing my best to only use the Heavy Pistol. So far its been quicker (i won't say easier) than sentinel.

I was one of those people.

I though the new process of shields/armor downgrading the effectiveness of biotics was utter and pure crap.

I beat my first playthough as a soldier on Insanity. After that I decided to give the Adept a try, and, I have to say I'm very impressed with the class.

Once you get the SMG shield-penetration, is very easy to gun down enemies shields/barriers, and once you master how to use your biotic powers (like using throw or pull to take enemies of cover) the gameplay becames very pleasant. I also almost never use singularity, but now after seeing these vids I think I'm gonna respect my adept and give singularity some love.

[rumination888]

davidshooter wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

But see, here's the thing... the other classes, and even the Adept's other power(Warp), can "CC" one mob, too.
By killing it.

And here's another example of the all you have is warp post.

If you throw warp at a charging krogan you're dead, if you throw singularities and shoot, it's dead.  There are many uses for singularity over warp.  Snipering is another. 

Kind of hard for a Krogan to charge you when its already dead.

Let me see:

You say even the Adept's other power - warp - can stop a single enemy

I say no it can't stop a charging Krogan (as an example)

And then you say dead Krogan don't charge

Is that right?  Just checking........

Did the following statement fly over your head?

But see, here's the thing... the other classes, and even the Adept's other power(Warp), can "CC" one mob, too.
By killing it.

A Krogan can't charge if he's dead. How difficult is it to understand? Did you erase that part out of your mind because it might cause you to rethink about Singularity's effectiveness?

[Grand_Commander13]

rumination888 wrote...

A Krogan can't charge if he's dead. How difficult is it to understand? Did you erase that part out of your mind because it might cause you to rethink about Singularity's effectiveness?

True, but an Adept with Warp cannot render a krogan dead.  Not on Insanity, anyway: it's a battle just to drop them to health (and this is on any class, such as Infiltrator) before they're about to charge you.

[gr00grams]

Yeah you're talking out your behind.

Krogans on insanity take a hell of a lot more than one warp to send them packing.

Singularity is often a best defense against anything.

I ended up throwing a lot more singularities than warps on insanity so it makes me laugh when I hear people describe Adept gameplay as warp spam.

This is the most truthful statement in this thread.

Also, there isn't anything 'slow' about adept on insanity compared to the other classes either.

I did insanity with adept, saved every crew member did every mission you name it.



Due to singularity, it has been by and far my most powerful class in insanity as well.

I think it's about time to bust out ole' fraps.



As for it not playing like advertised, please stop touting this defense. NO class plays like truly intended in hardcore+ modes. None of them. Many skills for all classes become obsolete. It is not a defense, as it happens to all classes. That, and you MUST use a gun in these modes regardless of class as well.

[rumination888]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...
True, but an Adept with Warp cannot render a krogan dead.  Not on Insanity, anyway: it's a battle just to drop them to health (and this is on any class, such as Infiltrator) before they're about to charge you.

Not from my experience. The only Krogan that are hard to drop are leader-types that also have a Barrier up before their Armor. I can't think of more than 2 instances in the game where thats a concern. Normal Krogan don't actually have very much health if they can't regenerate. And Warp takes care of that problem.

[rumination888]

gr00grams wrote...

Yeah you're talking out your behind.
Krogans on insanity take a hell of a lot more than one warp to send them packing.
Singularity is often a best defense against anything.

I ended up throwing a lot more singularities than warps on insanity so it makes me laugh when I hear people describe Adept gameplay as warp spam.

This is the most truthful statement in this thread.
Also, there isn't anything 'slow' about adept on insanity compared to the other classes either.
I did insanity with adept, saved every crew member did every mission you name it.

Due to singularity, it has been by and far my most powerful class in insanity as well.
I think it's about time to bust out ole' fraps.

As for it not playing like advertised, please stop touting this defense. NO class plays like truly intended in hardcore+ modes. None of them. Many skills for all classes become obsolete. It is not a defense, as it happens to all classes. That, and you MUST use a gun in these modes regardless of class as well.

I never once said one Warp takes care of Krogans. Did you watch the OP's singularity vid? Did you not notice how many singularities he had to throw out to keep one enemy CCed? Are you seriously trying to compare ONE warp with multiple singularities?

/facepalm

[gr00grams]

No I am not.



I also have no idea what your talking about.

One warp on insanity does near nothing.

It is really only viable in combo's, unless it is a weakness point (barrier, armor etc) in which it might do about half that defenses bar.

This compares to singularity, where yes you spam the heck out of it, but it keeps virtually any enemy 'locked' and is overall much, much more useful. Keeping one enemy CC'd in insanity is a true blessing. It is among the best helpers there is. Keeping Harbingers, Scions and the like from EVER attacking is a serious godsend, regardless of how many singularities it takes.



Like a scion might take about 10 singularities on insanity, but that's irrelevant. I can dance infront of it while it stands there doing nothing too.

[WillieStyle]

rumination888 wrote...

I never once said one Warp takes care of Krogans. Did you watch the OP's singularity vid? Did you not notice how many singularities he had to throw out to keep one enemy CCed? Are you seriously trying to compare ONE warp with multiple singularities?

/facepalm

I think the point is Singularity Spam > Warp Spam, because while you're spamming SIngularity, the target isn't doing anything.  For Warp to be able to "Crowd Control" enemies by killing them as you originally claimed, it would have to either incapacitate them in the same manner or 1 shot them.  It does neither.

[davidshooter]

rumination888 wrote...

gr00grams wrote...

Yeah you're talking out your behind.
Krogans on insanity take a hell of a lot more than one warp to send them packing.
Singularity is often a best defense against anything.

I ended up throwing a lot more singularities than warps on insanity so it makes me laugh when I hear people describe Adept gameplay as warp spam.

This is the most truthful statement in this thread.
Also, there isn't anything 'slow' about adept on insanity compared to the other classes either.
I did insanity with adept, saved every crew member did every mission you name it.

Due to singularity, it has been by and far my most powerful class in insanity as well.
I think it's about time to bust out ole' fraps.

As for it not playing like advertised, please stop touting this defense. NO class plays like truly intended in hardcore+ modes. None of them. Many skills for all classes become obsolete. It is not a defense, as it happens to all classes. That, and you MUST use a gun in these modes regardless of class as well.

I never once said one Warp takes care of Krogans. Did you watch the OP's singularity vid? Did you not notice how many singularities he had to throw out to keep one enemy CCed? Are you seriously trying to compare ONE warp with multiple singularities?

/facepalm

Faceplam all you want, you are the one who's not getting it.

[rumination888]

WillieStyle wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

I never once said one Warp takes care of Krogans. Did you watch the OP's singularity vid? Did you not notice how many singularities he had to throw out to keep one enemy CCed? Are you seriously trying to compare ONE warp with multiple singularities?

/facepalm

I think the point is Singularity Spam > Warp Spam, because while you're spamming SIngularity, the target isn't doing anything.  For Warp to be able to "Crowd Control" enemies by killing them as you originally claimed, it would have to either incapacitate them in the same manner or 1 shot them.  It does neither.

You can't compare things in a vacuum. Alright, one target isn't doing anything. What about the other targets? Notice how only one instance of a singularity can be up at a time?

The entire gaming mechanism of CC is so you take less damage. But depending on the duration and reapplication of CC, there comes a point where doing more damage beats CC in your ability to take less damage. Against most enemies, Warp is at that point.

This isn't a discussion of "X sucks!" this is a discussion of "Y is more efficient than X in most cases". groograms and davidshooter have made it clear they see "X sucks!" when they read my post, so its pointless to reply to them.

[konfeta]

I found that CC is more time efficient than Warp spam in my Adept playthrough. Target is neutralized immediately as opposed to having to kill it as it damages you, which means you spend less time regenerating, which means you spend more time killing.

Additionally, allies suck at shooting things in cover, but they are great at nailing those out. It's simply faster to lift targets out of cover than chip away at them with warp/bullets.

Target lifted as soon as it hits HP means I am personally free to move on to the next target while my allies finish it off.

Modifié par konfeta, 09 février 2010 - 02:02 .

[davidshooter]

rumination888 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

I never once said one Warp takes care of Krogans. Did you watch the OP's singularity vid? Did you not notice how many singularities he had to throw out to keep one enemy CCed? Are you seriously trying to compare ONE warp with multiple singularities?

/facepalm

I think the point is Singularity Spam > Warp Spam, because while you're spamming SIngularity, the target isn't doing anything.  For Warp to be able to "Crowd Control" enemies by killing them as you originally claimed, it would have to either incapacitate them in the same manner or 1 shot them.  It does neither.

You can't compare things in a vacuum. Alright, one target isn't doing anything. What about the other targets? Notice how only one instance of a singularity can be up at a time?

The entire gaming mechanism of CC is so you take less damage. But depending on the duration and reapplication of CC, there comes a point where doing more damage beats CC in your ability to take less damage. Against most enemies, Warp is at that point.

This isn't a discussion of "X sucks!" this is a discussion of "Y is more efficient than X in most cases". groograms and davidshooter have made it clear they see "X sucks!" when they read my post, so its pointless to reply to them.

Actually, Davidshooter thinks your posts don't make sense.

One power immobilizes and one power inflicts damage.  The former can also detonate the latter under certain circumstances.  Both are useful depending on circumstance.  I don't know how to make that clearer or how anyone who has actually played an Adept on Insanity could disagree.

Modifié par davidshooter, 09 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[gr00grams]

One power imobilizes and one power inflicts damage. The former can also detonate the latter under certain circumstances. Both are useful depending on circumstance. Don't know how to be clearer.

Yep.

Sidenote, I have just recorded some 'suicide mission' insanity with adept. I will be making a veed to illustrate.



Cheers,

[Average Gatsby]

rumination888 wrote...

I'm going to draw a lot of ire for what I am about to say:

That video didn't show anything people already knew. Yes, singularity can CC one mob if you spam it.

But see, here's the thing... the other classes, and even the Adept's other power(Warp), can "CC" one mob, too.
By killing it.

You're going to draw ire from me because you've turned this post into a flame war, because you're comments have been snarky assertions with no evidence and no reasoning. You're trolling. Because I was the one in the video I feel the need to counter your assertions with reason.

1. I've got another vid up where I cc 3 armored husks at once with one singularity. Its on the Pistol Comparison's thread.
2. CCing a scion to take out surrounding enemies is more useful than using warp to kill 1 collector drone.
3. The Adept, because of its weakness in straight combat, is designed to be used tactically. That means tactically incapacitating enemies. So singularity, in many instances, is the most effect move to use, because warp's killing power is limited unless used in conjunction with other biotics.
4. I have Level 4 warp in the video, and as you can see, it's impossible to 1 Warp kill on insanity.
5. You say had I used multiple warps, with a 6 second cooldown, that I would have not only survived that encounter but won more quickly. This is absolutely false. A huge part of adepts strength comes from keeping allies alive to do damage. Had I been warping harbinger, miranda and garrus would've died by him, and I would've been next.

I wouldn't have responded to this if I hadn't come on an seen how you've basically come on here to be a jerk. If you want to start a discussion on the merits of Warp, then start a thread and post a video. I promise I won't make any snarky replies.

I also want to note that your posts and vids on the Vanguard thread, which I complimented you on, were reasonable, so I don't really understand why you've trolled over here. I know you have fraps so if you've got some evidence to show how much more effective I could've been with Warp, load up that same area and show us what that looks like instead of just saying "Why don't you just kill stuff?"

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 09 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[rumination888]

konfeta wrote...

I found that CC is more time efficient than Warp spam in my Adept playthrough. Target is neutralized immediately as opposed to having to kill it as it damages you, which means you spend less time regenerating, which means you spend more time killing.

Additionally, allies suck at shooting things in cover, but they are great at nailing those out. It's simply faster to lift targets out of cover than chip away at them with warp/bullets.

Target lifted as soon as it hits HP means I am personally free to move on to the next target while my allies finish it off.

In most instances, theres more than 1 enemy in a room.
On one hand you're killing the enemy faster with damage, but the enemy and its allies are still shooitng at you. 
On the other hand you're killing the enemy slower with control, but one enemy out of the pack isn't shooting back.
Against the majority of enemies in the game, even on insanity, enemies go down quick enough that using a cooldown on singularity just isnt as efficient as warp.

[konfeta]

I simply did not come to that conclusion. I was playing with Warp spam at first, and then I started using CC.

Threats are cleared faster with CC than with Warp/Shooting. It's 1-3 seconds per enemy, and they add up very fast, and it's safer overall. This becomes ridiculously evident once you start using things like Area Energy Drain, Area Incinerate, and Area Overload.

See 3 people walk in through door? Next second they are all flying in the air.

Modifié par konfeta, 09 février 2010 - 02:56 .

[Average Gatsby]

This isn't a response to any particular reply. I just want to outline some Singularity theory, what this ability is, what is its intended use, what is its practical and situational use, and effects on gameplay. This may be heady or redundant, but my attempt is to add some depth to the discussion here.

What is singularity? Singularity is a combination of a crowd control and a trap. When singularity is used, it establishes an area on the battlefield that no enemy (save YMIR's) can enter without being rendered incapable of moving through and incapable of firing so long as they are in the area. In addition, if enemies have no defenses, it picks up the enemy, entraps them in a biotic sheath, and launches them a distance. While trapped in this sheath, it creates the possibility of a massive aoe damage attack on that particular enemy.

What is its intended use? To give adepts the abilities to distract a enemy or groups of enemies on the battlefield for a period of time to make up for the class' lower powered weapon abilities. It also creates a unique opportunity to create a chain of biotic attacks using other squadmates. It's also supposed to look really cool and show off how enemies can go flying through the air.

What is it's practical use? It is effective against controlling a single enemy or groups of packed enemies. It also, because of the enemy's AI establishes no-go points on the map for enemies, forcing enemies out of cover or positions because singularity is near.

a) Certain enemies, husks and geth hunters etc., follow an attack AI of advancing only, so the singularity works in stopping them from advancing through a certain point on the map.
Advanced ranged enemies, like the Collector Assassin, will attempt to flee the singularity be retreating to the nearest cover; however if the singularity is established near or on top of cover, the enemy may attempt to flee by trying to enter that now unavailable cover, simply because it is the closest
c) common ranged enemies act as though singularity doesn't exist, and will attempt to enter the spot according to its normal pathing

Singularities utility is limited for performing combo damage powers because of the few times swarms of enemies attack the player, yet can be useful and should be performed if possible.

Effect on gameplay: The utility of singularity makes the player want to use its power more often than the other adept abilities. Experience on harder difficulties impresses upon the player that survivability is more important than killing speed, so singularity is selected more often on the nearest threat group or the most dangerous enemy to insure that the player and/or her/his allies survive. In order for kill speeds to improve while insuring survivability, the adept must use her/his allies more extensively than more aggressive classes like the vanguard, soldier, and infiltrator.

Thoughts?

[rumination888]

konfeta wrote...

I simply did not come to that conclusion. I was playing with Warp spam at first, and then I started using CC.

Threats are cleared faster with CC than with Warp/Shooting. It's 1-3 seconds per enemy, and they add up very fast, and it's safer overall. This becomes ridiculously evident once you start using things like Area Energy Drain, Area Incinerate, and Area Overload.

See 3 people walk in through door? Next second they are all flying in the air.

What you say has a lot of merit. Theres more cases of enemies funneling through a door than... scions.
This would definately increase your usage of singularity if you evolved your allies attacks into area effect.

I'm still not convinced that its more efficient than warp in a lot of other cases though.

[konfeta]

I dunno, this merits experimentation. I made the switch around the time I started using Tempest, which takes shields down stupidly fast, but takes relatively forever to finish the target off.



Things like Geth Stalkers or Krogans Charging also were too dangerous to try to gun down from full health in my case, trying to just kill them with Warp/Gunfire ended with me near death, relying on Pull resulted in me not even losing my shields.

[Trefecka]

I'm curious about those adepts who went for sniper: Do you use it on enemies with the defenses up and held in place by singularity, or do you nail them while they are flying around in the air? Cause maybe I suck at shooters but I have problems shooting them out of the air lol.



And a second question: Bastion or Nemesis? While the majority of players seem to prefer nemesis for the +warp damage...if you use singularity more bastion would be more effective correct?

[Thwyvylyn]

I like Singularity for it's ability to bring explosive containers and enemies together.

[FFLB]

Trefecka wrote...

I'm curious about those adepts who went for sniper: Do you use it on enemies with the defenses up and held in place by singularity, or do you nail them while they are flying around in the air? Cause maybe I suck at shooters but I have problems shooting them out of the air lol.

And a second question: Bastion or Nemesis? While the majority of players seem to prefer nemesis for the +warp damage...if you use singularity more bastion would be more effective correct?

I went for sniper mainly to deal with enemies whom I couldn't reach with biotics nor accurately hit with the SMG. Also, having both AR and SMG seemed somewhat redundant. When I have them in the air, it's easiest to just toss a Warp their way. If you want to shoot them though, SMG would probably work best due to speed and ammo capacity.

When deciding between the two, I felt that the extra damage would be more beneficial, because when I consider how often I change the position of a Singularity, either because I've taken care of the trapped enemies or more enemies have appeared elsewhere, the duration of it seemed like a rather moot point. It might only be beneficial for Barrier.

[lockerlocke]

I love you guys! Saw the video and started an adept, Insanity. Hour later, finished the Archangel quest and unlocked Wide Singularity, just tearing through Mordin recruitment now.

[davidshooter]

Trefecka wrote...

I'm curious about those adepts who went for sniper: Do you use it on enemies with the defenses up and held in place by singularity, or do you nail them while they are flying around in the air? Cause maybe I suck at shooters but I have problems shooting them out of the air lol.

And a second question: Bastion or Nemesis? While the majority of players seem to prefer nemesis for the +warp damage...if you use singularity more bastion would be more effective correct?

I took Nemesis.  I take doing damage over damage protection whenever I get the choice.  Having said that, I also do all the shield and health upgrades as much as I can.  I find cover is enough on insanity.

My tactic with the sniper rifle is to throw singularity into either a small group or one enemy (if a small group isn't available)  I then sniper into the imobilized enemy's health bar.  As soon as the health bar goes red (and the target starts to lift out of my scope) I throw a warp which will detonate on impact.  If it was a group they all take damage - the initial target is toast either way.  I use the fast shooting Viper sniper rifle and the whole series of moves goes by very quickly - and with singularity and warp mapped there's no game stopage.  Fun and effeicient. There are lots of  other variations that you can do.  I also use warp ammo.

Give it try, I think you'll like it.

Modifié par davidshooter, 09 février 2010 - 07:18 .