52 réponses à ce sujet

[Vicious]

He could have used a better death than getting squished in his prissy golden "IM THE KING!" armor and then tossed aside like a toddler and a broken GI JOE.

[axan22]

i really hope fiona is mentioned in some way or even appears, also really hope there is another novel :-)

[Harelda]

leonia42 wrote...

Sigh.. you kids and your Anders. There can be only one! (bastard child of Maric's, that is)

http://i628.photobuc...esemblance2.png

 I beg to differ. Clearly, as you can see here, there is in fact a FOURTH son of Maric. Same nose. The evidence cannot be denied.  I'd also like to see some wild speculation on any bastard daughters Maric may have sired. I'm voting Anora; she's blonde and that's criteria enough, obviously!

[rogue1983]

so you want calian to have slept with his sister just like the people who want the same thing for alistair and morgan????

[kazic284]

rogue1983 wrote...

so you want calian to have slept with his sister just like the people who want the same thing for alistair and morgan????

You don't know Al and Mor are related.

[ankuu]

I don't understand either what family resemblance is...I would really really like Fiona to show up anytime, in any sequel/expansion and i would love for her to be Ali's mom. For me, she is, as he has some of her personality. Also, i don't see Maric and going and sleeping with a servant...he loved Katriel and Fiona, and wouldn't dissapoint Rowan.

Modifié par ankuu, 15 février 2010 - 05:55 .

[sarahkay]

ankuu wrote...

I don't understand either what family resemblance is...I would really really like Fiona to show up anytime, in any sequel/expansion and i would love for her to be Ali's mom. For me, she is, as he has some of her personality. Also, i don't see Maric and going and sleeping with a servant...he loved Katriel and Fiona, and wouldn't dissapoint Rowan.

I agree, but there's a few things I don't understand. Such as the whole Goldanna thing. She was Alistair's sister through the servant mom. Alistair and Goldanna didn't look much alike, other than the hair (I think her's was slightly more red though?). She did acknowledge that her mother died giving birth, and she swore it was the king's. She got a coin to shut her mouth and believe that the baby also died at birth.
Also, when speaking to Loghain as to why Maric never acknowledged Alistair, he said that Maric wanted to, but it would reduce Rowan to a concubine. According to Loghain, it was to hide the fact that Maric had a child that wasn't Rowan's.
Unless Loghain lied to the Warden to keep the servant story alive, the Goldanna situation and what Loghain says all point to Alistair being the son of a servant.

P.S. I think Maric has yet another son out there. (In that picture specifically, he doesn't look much like Alistair. But the first time I talked to him, I swore it was Alistair talking to me for a minute. )
http://images2.wikia.../NPC-Herren.jpg

[ankuu]

^ Lol Alistair may be obsessed with his hair, but it's not unique. I also remember that templar outside the Magi Tower...another Maric son! I don't understand the hole Goldanna thing and Loghain, but you know that when you talk to someone and that someone to another someone the truth modifies. Or they've got lost in the lie...

Morrigan is not his daughter also, cause he produces only boys xD Neah, but how can she be? She must be older than Cailan by far (if she were to be Maric's daughter), yet she looks almost the same age as Alistair.

Sorry for my english but it's not my mother tongue.

Modifié par ankuu, 15 février 2010 - 08:07 .

[Harelda]

rogue1983 wrote...

so you want calian to have slept with his sister just like the people who want the same thing for alistair and morgan????

 Whoosh!

That was the sound of my comment going over your head. 




 I really should reread or at least check before I post stuff. Where's that embarrassed smiley gone?

Modifié par Harelda, 15 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[rogue1983]

I am just saying that is nasty

[Cyansomnia]

 No, she'd be younger than Cailan. Maric met Flemeth in the Calling and Cailan had already been born by then. He was supposed to be about 9 at the start I think, though I seem to remember that got revised by Gaider to him being 5?

Um... no.  Maric met Flemeth in The Wilds right after Loghain and him escaped from the outlaw camp in The Stolen Throne.  This was during the rebellion.  Rowan and him were betrothed, but not married.  He didn't even sleep with Rowan until after Katriel was slain.  This was before he even met Katriel as well.  Flemeth helped him and Loghain get out of the Wilds in return for whatever he promised her.

Do be honest, I think his promise to Flemeth had something to do with the Grey Wardens returning to Ferelden.  He mentions it very briefly in The Calling.  I think she made him promise to help them.  Why else would he have run off so abruptly without even thinking about it and not even telling Loghain?  He knew Loghain would stop him, but he was determined to keep his oath.

During this time he was still distraught over Rowan's death (even though she'd been gone for several years), because he had come to care for her a great deal.  At that time I believe Cailan was somewhere around 10-12 years old.  Maric ran off into the Deep Roads and concieved a child with Fiona.

Now, Maric allowed the Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden at the exact same time.. which was 20 years ago.  It makes sense to me that Alistair is their child because he looks to be about that age.  It is also mentioned several times that Fiona had brown eyes and guess what.. so does Alistair.  Maric had blue eyes and Cailan has his mother's eyes.  It also says in the Codex that despite Alistair's Templar training he has a deep fascination with magic.  A trait from his mother perhaps?

Now, the whole servant girl/Goldanna issue.  This is my theory.  Fiona requested that Alistair know nothing of his mother.  In fact she specifically says "Let him think his mother human, and dead." and she wanted him to be able to have a life of his own.  She leaves this up to Maric to handle, since she must go to Weissupt.

So, Maric isn't going to turn to Loghain for help.  Who else is he close friends with?  His dead wife's brother, of course:  Arl Eamon.  The woman who died giving birth at Redcliffe castle was most likely a convenient occurence that allowed them to concoct a cover up as to why Arl Eamon has possession of Alistair.  Obviously people will ask questions about where this baby came from?  Goldanna would have been quite young at the time, perhaps overheard someone talking about Alistair's father and assumed he was the same baby her mother gave birth to.. though that child is very likely dead along with it's mother.

Hiding the fact that the mother of the king's heir was an elven mage, of all things, was probably more important to them than hiding the fact he was Maric's illegitimate son.  It would be politically disastrous for him if he ever had to take the throne.  Which depending on your choices, happens.

As for Loghain not telling you anything about it, why would he?  It's sensitive information, and if he promised Maric never to tell anyone I think he'd keep to that promise.  He respected and cared for Maric, even if he is determined to remove Cailan and Alistair from the picture.  There's no real reason for him to tell you.  It's also very possible he had no idea and the cover up story fooled him as well.

As for sending Alistair off to the Chantry, it was probably because Arl Eamon was forced to do so because of Isolde.  It's an awkward position to be in, and Eamon probably thought it better than to just cast him out of Redcliffe.  At the end of The Calling, Duncan swears to Maric to watch over the baby as he was recently appointed the Warden Commander of Ferelden.  I don't find it coincidence that he was there to conscript Alistair and take him away from the Chantry.  Duncan also knew Alistair was Maric's son.  I believe the reason he risked putting him through the Joining was because his mother survived it, so it was very likely he would as well.

After reading the books and playing the game I find there are just far too many things pointing to Alistair being Fiona and Maric's child.  You also have to remember that Gaider said at one point that the Codex in the game is not gospel truth, it is merely the knowledge your character has acquired from their own perspective.  They would know nothing of Fiona or Duncan's past.

And the whole idea about Anders is a bit silly.  I think it's just coincidence with the facial features.  That and Anders, to me, looks older than Alistair.

I'd like to see some closure with Fiona, that would be interesting.  Her showing up could cause all kinds of drama for Alistair and some very interesting dialogue if he were to ever find out the truth.

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 15 février 2010 - 10:39 .

[debbiepuff]

Aislinn Trista - I believe exactly what you just posted!

Thank you for posting!

[sarahkay]

 That makes perfect sense!
So, did Cailan purposely send Alistair to the Tower of Ishal to protect him.. just in case Cailan died and Alistair had to take the throne? 

[debbiepuff]

sarahkay wrote...

 That makes perfect sense!
So, did Cailan purposely send Alistair to the Tower of Ishal to protect him.. just in case Cailan died and Alistair had to take the throne? 

I think so since later on Anora tells the warden that Cailan knew of Alistair 

[Strofo]

Maybe Fiona ended up having twins in the deep roads and only showed Maric Alistair so she could raise Anders.

[Ceridraen]

I thought Anders seemed likely, but I don't think he looks like Alastair or Cailan, personally. He looks older than both and he has a skinny face - they both have square (same) faces.

[TheRealIncarnal]

I don't think that Anders is another of Maric's sons. Alistair is clearly the most plausible candidate for being Fiona's son. Although, the amulet is a bit of a mystery, since I never saw anything about that with Fiona. I might have just missed it though.



Either way, I'm sure Fiona will come up.

[ankuu]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

 No, she'd be younger than Cailan. Maric met Flemeth in the Calling and Cailan had already been born by then. He was supposed to be about 9 at the start I think, though I seem to remember that got revised by Gaider to him being 5?

Um... no.  Maric met Flemeth in The Wilds right after Loghain and him escaped from the outlaw camp in The Stolen Throne.  This was during the rebellion.  Rowan and him were betrothed, but not married.  He didn't even sleep with Rowan until after Katriel was slain.  This was before he even met Katriel as well.  Flemeth helped him and Loghain get out of the Wilds in return for whatever he promised her.

Do be honest, I think his promise to Flemeth had something to do with the Grey Wardens returning to Ferelden.  He mentions it very briefly in The Calling.  I think she made him promise to help them.  Why else would he have run off so abruptly without even thinking about it and not even telling Loghain?  He knew Loghain would stop him, but he was determined to keep his oath.

During this time he was still distraught over Rowan's death (even though she'd been gone for several years), because he had come to care for her a great deal.  At that time I believe Cailan was somewhere around 10-12 years old.  Maric ran off into the Deep Roads and concieved a child with Fiona.

Now, Maric allowed the Grey Wardens to return to Ferelden at the exact same time.. which was 20 years ago.  It makes sense to me that Alistair is their child because he looks to be about that age.  It is also mentioned several times that Fiona had brown eyes and guess what.. so does Alistair.  Maric had blue eyes and Cailan has his mother's eyes.  It also says in the Codex that despite Alistair's Templar training he has a deep fascination with magic.  A trait from his mother perhaps?

Now, the whole servant girl/Goldanna issue.  This is my theory.  Fiona requested that Alistair know nothing of his mother.  In fact she specifically says "Let him think his mother human, and dead." and she wanted him to be able to have a life of his own.  She leaves this up to Maric to handle, since she must go to Weissupt.

So, Maric isn't going to turn to Loghain for help.  Who else is he close friends with?  His dead wife's brother, of course:  Arl Eamon.  The woman who died giving birth at Redcliffe castle was most likely a convenient occurence that allowed them to concoct a cover up as to why Arl Eamon has possession of Alistair.  Obviously people will ask questions about where this baby came from?  Goldanna would have been quite young at the time, perhaps overheard someone talking about Alistair's father and assumed he was the same baby her mother gave birth to.. though that child is very likely dead along with it's mother.

Hiding the fact that the mother of the king's heir was an elven mage, of all things, was probably more important to them than hiding the fact he was Maric's illegitimate son.  It would be politically disastrous for him if he ever had to take the throne.  Which depending on your choices, happens.

As for Loghain not telling you anything about it, why would he?  It's sensitive information, and if he promised Maric never to tell anyone I think he'd keep to that promise.  He respected and cared for Maric, even if he is determined to remove Cailan and Alistair from the picture.  There's no real reason for him to tell you.  It's also very possible he had no idea and the cover up story fooled him as well.

As for sending Alistair off to the Chantry, it was probably because Arl Eamon was forced to do so because of Isolde.  It's an awkward position to be in, and Eamon probably thought it better than to just cast him out of Redcliffe.  At the end of The Calling, Duncan swears to Maric to watch over the baby as he was recently appointed the Warden Commander of Ferelden.  I don't find it coincidence that he was there to conscript Alistair and take him away from the Chantry.  Duncan also knew Alistair was Maric's son.  I believe the reason he risked putting him through the Joining was because his mother survived it, so it was very likely he would as well.

After reading the books and playing the game I find there are just far too many things pointing to Alistair being Fiona and Maric's child.  You also have to remember that Gaider said at one point that the Codex in the game is not gospel truth, it is merely the knowledge your character has acquired from their own perspective.  They would know nothing of Fiona or Duncan's past.

And the whole idea about Anders is a bit silly.  I think it's just coincidence with the facial features.  That and Anders, to me, looks older than Alistair.

I'd like to see some closure with Fiona, that would be interesting.  Her showing up could cause all kinds of drama for Alistair and some very interesting dialogue if he were to ever find out the truth.

I fricking love you I believe that most of what you said is true. And the Goldanna part makes sense now. I believe now, more and more that Ali's mommy is Fiona. One thing tho, i remember her having dark hair (or was that Katriel)?. How come Ali has red hair since Maric was blonde?

I hope that Alistair will eventually find out about his mother, he wants a family so bad...And i guess if that will happen, it will hapen quickly, as the Grey Warden and him don't have that much to live.

Modifié par ankuu, 16 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Leonia]

Totally agree with Aislinn here.



As for genetics, Alistair has dark blond hair, which is easier to tell in outdoor areas (yeah, I know, it looks reddish when inside buildings and what not but I think that is just the lighting differences). I'm not a geneticist, but, just because one parent has dark hair and one has light, doesn't mean a child will have an in-between colour, dark, or light. It really depends on if the hair colours of the parents are heterozygous or fully dominate/recessive genes. I know, getting a bit technical here, and trust me, I have thought about it before as well in my attempts to rationalise that Alistair is Fiona's son.



As for Goldana, she really is the thorny bit when it comes to the theory, but I reckon she's been lied to and either Loghain has eaten up the lie as well (and I sure hope he never finds out about Fiona, an Orlesian Grey Warden Elven Mage) or he's assuming Alistair came about from Maric's Flemeth encounter. We never are told of Alistair's age so, perhaps Loghain is just playing a guessing game. He definitely knows Alistair is Maric's son but he doesn't tell us anything about who the mother is.

[Vicious]

So is everyone ignoring the whole amulet bit or what? rofl

[ankuu]

Hey maybe that's just a game thing....with the amulet. Or maybe Fiona had an amulet, but not something to stand out. It would be odd for him to i dunno...have the blue skirt she was wearing? xD

[Leonia]

Vicious wrote...

So is everyone ignoring the whole amulet bit or what? rofl

There's a thread topic all about the amulet thing in the Official Campaign forum somewhere, just do a search for it. Many of us Pro-Fiona-As-Alistair's-Mum folks don't feel the amulet makes any sense seeing as Fiona is not exactly a devoted Andraste follower (and the amulet has an Andrastian symbol). My guess is it was yet another lie told to Alistair to keep him from knowing the truth, though it could have been Eamon's attempt to try and give him some hope (well, false hope, as it may be).

[Ponce de Leon]

Harelda wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Sigh.. you kids and your Anders. There can be only one! (bastard child of Maric's, that is)

http://i628.photobuc...esemblance2.png

 I beg to differ. Clearly, as you can see here, there is in fact a FOURTH son of Maric. Same nose. The evidence cannot be denied.  I'd also like to see some wild speculation on any bastard daughters Maric may have sired. I'm voting Anora; she's blonde and that's criteria enough, obviously!

You should add Maric himself in your image. Wait...

There, Maric himself, as BioWare has made it, but not placed him in game.

[BeautyoftheBeast]

With the whole consideration of Morrigan and Alistair being half-siblings, it kind of made me retch a little then consider just doing the US in the game next time around.



However, come to think of it, if Maric did sleep with Flemeth (lulz he made a 'Dark Promise') who's to say Anders wasn't their kid? He looks older than both Cailan and Alistair... And he's a Mage.



That's just fun speculations for me, though. I'm totally Pro- Fiona as Alistair's mom.