170 réponses à ce sujet

[RudaOne]

I picked Zaeed as team leader. And Legion as specialist. Legion died.

Sent Grunt back with the Normandy crew, in case of an ambush or something, and stuck with Zaeed as team leader. Samara took care of the bubble. Zaeed took a bullet and Mordin perished in the battle. The horror...



I'd like to believe my decisions had been better, had it not been 4 AM...

[Valmy]

Sorry man. Read the descriptions of the skills of the characters and choose based on that. Obviously make sure that character is loyal.



It is pretty obvious which leaders have experience in leading fire teams and which ones dont.

[tmp7704]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Saying Garrus is more qualified for leading his rinky dink team THAT HE LED TO THEIR DEATHS!!!

Garrus' team got destroyed thanks to betrayal and ambush while he was away, not because of his leading.

And he's qualified not because he lead that team really, but because he's a Turian. Turians serve in military "by default" for large part of their lives, meaning they're all well trained in combat roles. Also, Turian units are known for remaining cool under fire and they never break.

[Cutlass Jack]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Uh, no fool.  The reason his team died was because he was a poor judge of character (allowed his team to be betrayed) and was also so incompetent that he managed to make 3 rival mercenary gangs WORK TOGETHER to bring him down.  Looks like you were the one who didn't pay attention.

Yes he lead a team so 'poorly' that three gangs had to band together and trick him away from his team to kill them. You really sure you paid attention? Really?

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 08 février 2010 - 08:25 .

[DuffyMJ]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

He was betrayed by his partner, Vito, in what was most likely a power struggle. There's nothing in the game that tells us what happened to Zaeed happened because he was a ****** poor leader. It all sounds like Vito's just a power hungry mercenary that was just waiting to take Zaeed out.

If he inspired loyalty in his men, they wouldn't have betrayed him. Just saying.

SAME. POINT.  WITH. GARRUS. TOO!!!! The hypocricy is mind-blowing!

[Speakeasy13]

Schneidend wrote...
Zaeed's entire company of underlings betrayed him for a few extra credits. 'Nuff said.

Duh. Vito only managed to bribe six of those men. Six. Not an entire company.

[Arrtis]

You think Grunt would make a good lead?Being the perfect soldier with memories of great warlords should impart some good leading experience?

[Cutlass Jack]

DuffyMJ wrote...

SAME. POINT.  WITH. GARRUS. TOO!!!! The hypocricy is mind-blowing!

Completely Wrong. He wasn't betrayed out of bad leadership. Did you listen to why he was betrayed in Garrus' quest?

[jimmyjoefro]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

He was betrayed by his partner, Vito, in what was most likely a power struggle. There's nothing in the game that tells us what happened to Zaeed happened because he was a ****** poor leader. It all sounds like Vito's just a power hungry mercenary that was just waiting to take Zaeed out.

If he inspired loyalty in his men, they wouldn't have betrayed him. Just saying.

They're mercenaries.  Vito probably bought their loyalty with a pay raise.  Again, what happened with Zaeed and the Blue Suns has practically no bearing on his leadership abilities in battle, as he was betrayed by is partner for control.

[DuffyMJ]

Valmy wrote...

Sorry man. Read the descriptions of the skills of the characters and choose based on that. Obviously make sure that character is loyal.

It is pretty obvious which leaders have experience in leading fire teams and which ones dont.

 it's about "Commanding loyalty through experience" how on earth does a former asari commando and justicar with more experience than the entire sum lifetimes of EVERY OTHER SQUADMATE and who is something of a living GOD among her people, even more revered and an EQUAL MATCH!!! for the spectre who recruited Shepard lacking in experience or in commanding loyalty.

Are you people seriously saying you would pick Garrus over Nihlus too?  Seriously acknowledge that so I can realize how brainwashed you all are.

[Schneidend]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Uh, no fool.  The reason his team died was because he was a poor judge of character (allowed his team to be betrayed) and was also so incompetent that he managed to make 3 rival mercenary gangs WORK TOGETHER to bring him down.  Looks like you were the one who didn't pay attention.

He encouraged those 3 rival mercenary gangs to work together because he and his team were so damn awesome under his leadership that said mercenary gangs couldn't possibly hope to win individually. If Garrus' team had been alive during the Archangel quest, he wouldn't have needed Shepard's help to kill Tarak, Jinthor, and Garm at all.

One out of about eleven people betrayed Garrus, and only because Sidonis' identity as a member of Garrus' squad was discovered and he was being threatened with certain death. This doesn't change the fact that Garrus is a tactical genius and fairly charismatic.

DuffyMJ wrote...
 it's about "Commanding loyalty through experience" how on earth does a former asari commando and justicar with

It's not really about experience. Experience doesn't make one a master of squad tactics and it certainly doesn't make one charismatic.

As
for Nihlus, we've seen that he prefers to work alone. Again, like
Samara, he's a master skirmisher, but not really a master squad tactician.

Modifié par Schneidend, 08 février 2010 - 08:32 .

[CardonT]

Schneidend wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

Who in the bunch isn't a sole survivor?  Just because Zaeed has done well on his own doesn't mean he's forgotten how to lead a team. He was the co-founder of the Blue Suns for christ's sake.

And he got his organization taken from him...

Besides, they didn't "found" the Blue Suns. They just ran the more modern version of it. The original organization was started by a batarian warlord.

And, if you take him with you to cities and missions, he will alwys tell of his past missions.
"...killed half of my squad. Damn good weapon." "Everyone got killed but me."
Sounds like he is the perfect man to lead your squad to its certain death.

[Valmy]

DuffyMJ wrote...
Seriously acknowledge that so I can realize how brainwashed you all are.

What the hell?  I was just trying to help.

Ok go cry and whine in the corner that you chose wrong, no skin off my nose.

[DuffyMJ]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

SAME. POINT.  WITH. GARRUS. TOO!!!! The hypocricy is mind-blowing!

Completely Wrong. He wasn't betrayed out of bad leadership. Did you listen to why he was betrayed in Garrus' quest?

It was the direct result of Garrus' hubris.  Garrus is incompetent.  He didn't learn a ****ing thing from the Dr. Saleon episode.  He's a hothead with no business commanding a squad.

[tmp7704]

Ehlisuun wrote...

 The "squad" is two other people who are both totally committed to the mission

Actually the fire team is all the team members minus the two you take with yourself and the guy in the pipes... so that's 6-7 people unless you mess up on the way.

[Aynslie]

I ran with Samara as team leader on my first play though thinking 600 years combat xp would be good in that department but spaced on the fact that combat xp and leadership xp are two different things.



When I went with Garrus he calls for cover fire saving the tech specialist. Theres the difference, Samara never did that. At least not that I remember.



Miranda will try to trip you up by saying Samara is an excellent choice because she is experienced and Wise, while basically saying that Garrus is an alright choice who at least knows what hes doing.



Samara is powerful, wise, experienced in combat but not leadership material. I think she is there to throw us off....

[Cutlass Jack]

jimmyjoefro wrote...

They're mercenaries.  Vito probably bought their loyalty with a pay raise.  Again, what happened with Zaeed and the Blue Suns has practically no bearing on his leadership abilities in battle, as he was betrayed by is partner for control.

Thats the point really. He knows how to get people to follow him for money. They got a better offer and did not stay loyal. He then took a bullet to the head and spent the intervening years working solo. Focusing more on rage (a powerful anasthetic) than people skills.

I don't think he's the worst choice for the job, just that he doesn't inspire people.

[StolenThunder]

I used her as my fireteam leader. Miranda actually told me that she was an excellent choice. No casualties.

[DuffyMJ]

Valmy wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
Seriously acknowledge that so I can realize how brainwashed you all are.

What the hell?  I was just trying to help.

Ok go cry and whine in the corner that you chose wrong, no skin off my nose.

I understand how the thing works, who you have to pick due to the games programming etc. I'm not talking about the game mechanic sense, I'm talking about in the design decision sense.  It makes no sense.  I'm not "crying" I'm just frankly really astounded at how ridiculous people are "defending" that Samara should be a poor leader who gets HERSELF killed as a result of somehow not having enough experience or command-through-loyalty to lead 3 people into battle.  I just find it incredibly stupid that people are defending Bioware's decision on this.

[GnusmasTHX]

She's a lone wolf, get over it.

The fact that she can kill a thousand people by herself doesn't mean she has any leadership capacity.

Miranda on the other hand does. Not just in combat, but in leading Cerberus task groups. This is evident in just about EVERY single part of the game where you learn about her, as well as Mass Effect: Redemption and probably Galaxies.

Cerberus is just as a militia terrorist group as the CIA. The whole point of the loyalty missions is to get the loyalty of your squad. If you say follow a pink hippo into battle, they'll do it. But instead you choose Miranda. Despite their personal feelings, Miranda's leadership skills are unaffected because they know to follow SHEPARD's orders.

Cry more.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 08 février 2010 - 08:34 .

[CRISIS1717]

Samara doesn't have the experience leading a team into combat despite her age. She might be able to take care of herself but that alone doesn't mean you know how to command a squad tactically .

Oh and btw I picked Jacob both times and he survived.

[Ehlisuun]

tmp7704 said "Actually the fire team is all the team members minus the two you take with yourself and the guy in the pipes... so that's 6-7 people unless you mess up on the way."



Did you actually play the ending? It shows the entire group minus Shep's party at the end, but the first time you pick a fire team it is just 3 people. The tech in the vent shaft shows up the same time the character does and they open a door so everyone can link up. If the tech dies it is while closing said door and in that scene there are only 7 people shown. Shep's squad is 3, tech guy is 1 so that leaves the fire team leader's 3 man squad.

[Veryth]

Leadership is more than just telling people what to do. Zaeed may have the tactical knowledge, but he lacks the respect of those around him. He leads through brutality. Garrus formed his team because he got things done, and people respected him, as mentioned during his recruitment quest.

[DuffyMJ]

Aynslie wrote...

I ran with Samara as team leader on my first play though thinking 600 years combat xp would be good in that department but spaced on the fact that combat xp and leadership xp are two different things.

When I went with Garrus he calls for cover fire saving the tech specialist. Theres the difference, Samara never did that. At least not that I remember.

Miranda will try to trip you up by saying Samara is an excellent choice because she is experienced and Wise, while basically saying that Garrus is an alright choice who at least knows what hes doing.

Samara is powerful, wise, experienced in combat but not leadership material. I think she is there to throw us off....

Okay, that's a reasonable counter-argument.  I still strongly object to the idea that there's something of a bias or like "mass effect age-ism" or something going on here because of this ridiculous idea that "she's forgotten how to work with people because she's been on her own for 400 years."  II mean come on, the two cerberus personnel who NO ONE outside of cerberus and Shep trusts and Garrus who was a cop and Robin Hood-type for TWO WHOLE YEARS is more experienced in leadership?  I just think that's nuts.