130 réponses à ce sujet

[JedTed]

Maybe it's just me but the Human Reaper actually reminded me of one of the giant Sentinel robots from X-Men. Partly because of the fact that it shoots laser beams out of it's chest. I never really saw it as a cheap "Terminator" rip-off.



I kinda agree with what the OP is saying, in ME1 we knew the Reapers were harvesting organic races for SOMETHING but we didn't know why. When you think about it makes sense that they'd either uses us to refuel themselves or construct more Reapers.



As for the final form of the Human Reaper, i'm pretty sure that the head and the arms/tenticels are the front of the ship where spine extends to form the tail. The Collectors supposedly required a few billion more humans to complete the Reaper the final product would be much much bigger then what you see in the game.

[adam_grif]

Who said it was permanent. I imagine it was a prototype and had it worked it would have eventually been released.

Been released? What? It's the core of the Reaper. It detaching to do anything is wholly unprecedented, and if it wasn't even an important part of the Reaper it just makes this whole debacle even more silly than it already is.

What do you think the thing is made of? You saw what happened to those in the Collector tubes: they got turned into a metallic substance. The Reapers are made out of an organically engineered metal. Who knows what properties it has that relate to genetics? They "are legion" after all.

What, so the tube was performing alchemy on it as it went through? Organic means "based on carbon", and carbon ain't a metal. You can't turn a non-metal into a metal, and even if you could, it defeats the purpose of building it out of human slushee instead of just getting that metal in the first place to engineer it like any sane being would do.

Not really. One is superstition and the other actual science.

Liquifying people to build starships because one person of the same species shot up a robotic body is science?

Shepard defeated Sovereign. He/she did what no other organic species (as far as we know) has done to the Reapers before. Whether humans are special overall or not, several things point to Shepard being an exceptional individual, including other characters saying so directly. The Reapers know this and they targeted Shepard because of it. He/she is probably the first organic they've actually considered to be a threat. And I have a strong feeling that they also want something from Shepard that other humans can't give them. Let's just call it that X-Factor that Shepard has that very few others seem to possess.

The entire point of this discussion is that it's stupid, not that it isn't canon. Bioware saying "Shepard is special" or "humans is special" isn't relevant, because it's just authorial fiat.



Shepard and the humans "defeating" the reapers only happened because the Protheans had laid the groundwork and done all the heavy lifting for them. I reiterate, the only thing Shepard and Co did to stop him was fire bullets.



From this, they have inferred that the entire species Shepard belongs to is somehow "special" and worthy of being turned into a Reaper. This is ludicrous because, as you say, Shepard is supposed to be exceptional, not the rule for humans. The very same genetic diversity we get praised for means that if you swallow up thousands of humans at random, like the collectors were doing, you're going to get as many totally sucky people as you will great ones, and the majority will be totally average.



Relating up to an earlier point, the only thing that we can say Shepard is good at is infantry ground combat. Is this really a relevant skill for the Reapers to have? Is this justifiable grounds for Reaper creation? Bringing up things like "BUT THEY DEFEATED THEMMMMMM" is missing the point - this is only significant if the reason they defeated them was because of some exceptional skills or properties that they have, and if these were particularly of interest for the Reapers and useful for them to have. Except it ain't.

[The Angry One]

To be fair they did try to make a Reaper out of Protheans too, but it didn't work because... Prothean slushee doesn't aid in the construction of a composite metal Reaper anywhere near as well as human slushee does... I guess.

[Mir5]

Terror_K wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Work with me here.

Even if we accept this ridiculous premise (that synthetics are inferior to organics, and "can't evolve" or some crap), and that they want to immitate humans, what has building a giant human skeleton only to have it permenantly entombed in a giant starship got to do with it?

Who said it was permanent. I imagine it was a prototype and had it worked it would have eventually been released.

Don't mind if I quote myself here. Having a giant metallic skeleton with A LASER SHOOTING MOUTH inside some ship does not make any kind of sense. Or maybe the wizard did it.

Mir5 wrote...

considering the psychological impact. It looked human to cause fear.
Not just in us against them, but also in other races against us, against
humanity. I doubt many citadel species would trust humanity even as
much as they do now, after a giant human looking thing razed their
homeworld.

Anyways, we bipeds are meant to survive in our own size on planets with gravity. I doubt most of our basic structure would serve any purpose in dark space.

Modifié par Mir5, 03 avril 2010 - 02:27 .

[The Angry One]

Mir5 wrote...

Don't mind if I quote myself here. Having a giant metallic skeleton with A LASER SHOOTING MOUTH inside some ship does not make any kind of sense. Or maybe the wizard did it.

The only way I can explain that one (aside from the obvious 'it's an arcade boss with giant lazers and glowing ****-me lights!') is that it's "mouth" and "chest" are actually supposed to be some sort of energy conduit ports which connect it to the main Reaper structure once built, and in desperation the thing is shooting it's energy reserves at you (because as a weapon, it really sucks).

Modifié par The Angry One, 03 avril 2010 - 02:35 .

[Schroing]

Mass Effect is and always has been a B-Movie in spirit.

[SpectreT]

I facepalmed hard at this. "Great. Epic series, awesome story, then the throw a damn Contra Boss Fight at me? WTF, I was thinking I might have to blow dust out of my NES cartridge or something.



Then I wondered what sentient race in the distant past looked like a Reaper Cuttlefish for Soverign to look like that, and it still begs all kinds of questions about where the Reapers originally came from.



So, no. It struck me as the logical way to go, since they (EA) switched from RPG (stat and inventory management, party optimization) to Squad-based cover shooter (BOOM! Headshot!) with the occasional shout out to Bioware's rich history. So an arcade boss fight flat out broke my suspension of disbelief.

[Relix28]

adam_grif wrote...

The entire point of this discussion is that it's stupid, not that it isn't canon. Bioware saying "Shepard is special" or "humans is special" isn't relevant, because it's just authorial fiat.

Shepard and the humans "defeating" the reapers only happened because the Protheans had laid the groundwork and done all the heavy lifting for them. I reiterate, the only thing Shepard and Co did to stop him was fire bullets.

From this, they have inferred that the entire species Shepard belongs to is somehow "special" and worthy of being turned into a Reaper. This is ludicrous because, as you say, Shepard is supposed to be exceptional, not the rule for humans. The very same genetic diversity we get praised for means that if you swallow up thousands of humans at random, like the collectors were doing, you're going to get as many totally sucky people as you will great ones, and the majority will be totally average.

Relating up to an earlier point, the only thing that we can say Shepard is good at is infantry ground combat. Is this really a relevant skill for the Reapers to have? Is this justifiable grounds for Reaper creation? Bringing up things like "BUT THEY DEFEATED THEMMMMMM" is missing the point - this is only significant if the reason they defeated them was because of some exceptional skills or properties that they have, and if these were particularly of interest for the Reapers and useful for them to have. Except it ain't.

About the whole Reapers targeting Shepard thing. I think it has more to do with what Shepard represents rather than his skills/experience or his genetic material. Like TIM said: it's not about what you have experienced, it's about what you represent.
In the event that reapers actually caught Shepard, they would prolly execute him in some gruesome way so that everyone could see just how helpless and fragile their "hero of the Citadel" actually is.That would have crushed the morale of most organic species in the event of reaper invasion....or maybe not, who knows. It's just a hypothesis that seems most logical to me as to why the reapers/collectors are targeting the commander throughout ME2.

And as for the Human Reaper construct, well let's just say it's better you use your imagination rather than logics. It would be nice to have some official explanation from BW about the whole Human Reaper larva being constructed inside a collector base. But I guess they are saving that for ME3, since that "major" decision weather or not to destroy it will most likely carry over to ME3. Kinda like letting the council live/die at the end of ME1.

[scorptatious]

EDI did suggest that the Reaper absorbing the humans was how they reproduced. Perhaps that's why they go after advanced species such as humans, to keep thier own race alive. Although they did turn the Protheans into Collectors, perhaps they saw a special use for them.



As for the Human Reaper thing. Plot wise I didn't really mind it all too much. The only problem I had with it was it bieng too easy a final boss. XD

[Saint Op]

Angry one, I like your therory on the skull/weapon stuff.



I think maybe the chest would end up being like the core we destroyed in the dead reaper.



Making it more grown human instead of baby avoid major PR issues. But it makes sense that the initial form looks like what is used to make it. If it were a small cuddle fish I would have had a problem believing it either a) grew to a large reaper or they build cuddle fish ontop of cuddle fish.



I also believe they were looking at Shepard to be the next Saren as he turned out mostly machine anyway.



Finally, as for humans being special Harby tells you why other species are not and I think a major part is numbers as no other race seems to have the sheer numbers we do. Remember it is mentioned that the Krogans would have been the first choice if not for their now very small numbers.

[Wolverfrog]

Shepard: Not just any Reaper...a human Reaper!



I cringed.

[IoCaster]

nvm, wrong thread

Modifié par IoCaster, 03 avril 2010 - 05:07 .

[The Angry One]

I suppose the Collectors were caught off-guard by the colony actually having working defenses, well after EDI fixes them anyway.

Hey it turns out that big badass Collector ship is made of tin foil and mud. Much like the Hammerhead in that respect.

[Azint]

The Angry One wrote...

I suppose the Collectors were caught off-guard by the colony actually having working defenses, well after EDI fixes them anyway.
Hey it turns out that big badass Collector ship is made of tin foil and mud. Much like the Hammerhead in that respect.

At least the Hammerhead can actually land on things. And crush them.

[Sina84]

Reapers aren't built, they're grown like organics. All Reapers probably started out looking like a humanoid version of their species, but then they're grown into the standard Reaper shape. And yes, according to Harbinger, humans are better than the other races, and why they wanted to Reap them. Pasting this from my other post.

Quarian: Concidered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating.
Drell: Useless; insufficient numbers.
Asari: Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.
Salarian: Insufficient lifespan. Fragile genetic structure.
Geth: An annoyance. Limited utility.
Krogan: Sterilized race. Potential wasted.
Turian: You are concidered too primitive.
Human: Viable possibility. Aggression factor useful if controlled.
Human: Viable possibility. Impressive genetic malleability.
Human: Viable possibility. Impressive technical potential.
Human: Viable possibility. If emotial drives are subjucated.
Human: Viable possibility. Great biotic potential.

Modifié par Sina84, 03 avril 2010 - 05:44 .

[SimonTheFrog]

I still don't get how human puree helps building a space ship... even if the t-800 shape can be explained as "captain" of the larger reaper form.



But i'm just a rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, i touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.

[Tempus Frangit]

I don't see why people thought it was so weird. :S

[Jonathan Shepard]

adam_grif wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Husks. They're mini human reapers. I always thought it was pretty obvious.

Um, no? The resemblance is superficial, they're just people that have had parts replaced with cybernetics. Other than being made via reaper technology there's nothing else in common. If anything they're opposites, since the husks were formerly organic, now replaced with cybernetics, and the human reaper is made out of human slushee. One is a human trying to be a robot, the other is a robot trying to be a human.

It was hinted at the Dragon's Teeth were Reaper tech. Ever since you get the first codex entry on them. Okay, so that's cool. Why do the geth have 'em? No one knows. Then on Horizon, you see the husks are different. Upgraded and changed. There are also Praetorians, Scions, and Abominations. Hm, what could all of these experiments with HUMANS and REAPER technology be leading up to? 

Was it really that hard to guess? I wasn't surprised in the least. Surprised, that BioWare would go with something so obvious, maybe. And your argument is like comparing 3 and -3. They still have an absolute value of three away from zero. There's no difference between the two except what side of the origin/spectrum they're on.  (Well, there's a mathematical difference of 6, I suppose, but you understand my meaning otherwise, yes?)

[smudboy]

lyssalu wrote...

 they built it up pretty well.  the husks...everything.  it was foreshadowed well.

that said, i still ****** my pants laughing when shepard says "it's not just any reaper...it's a human reaper!"

No.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

smudboy wrote...

No.

Aren't discussions fun when we get such deep, thought-provoking responses such as this? "No". So stirring!

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 03 avril 2010 - 08:07 .

[ChaosDemonHu]

anyone else notice the Collectors before the 2nd game were looking for species "with rare genetic mutations/make up"?

[RyrineaNara]

I just thought the thing was funny as hell. Plus too easy to Kill.