140 réponses à ce sujet

[Protocept00]

What the hell happened...? I found pretty much everything in the game to be excellent, and for the most part an improvement over Mass Effect 1, but... where the hell did the plot go? I'm sorry but I don't consider my squad loyalty missions to be "plot", they were side plots. On a character-driven front, it was incredible, but what happened to the forward motion and constant motion that you got from Mass Effect 1's plot? At every turn in Mass Effect 1, you were discovering something new, and really felt like you were a part of events happening in the Galaxy, and the game was filled with epic and majestic setpieces. But not here in Mass Effect 2... no, we get only I think... 4 missions devoted to the plot. Hardly anything was explained. I kept thinking that there would be a moment at the end of the game where we would get *most* of our questions answered but no...

I'm only here bringing it up because I'm a very adoring Mass Effect fan, and I just hope that Mass Effect 3 will retain a powerful and gripping plot. I'm okay with most of the changes that happened in the transition between the two games, and there are some annoying little quibbles like the pointless upgrade system.

Now before anyone flames me, think about your time with Mass Effect 1 and it's story. Think about Mass Effect 2's story. It's a huge freakin' hole.

Anyways, I found the game to be far more playable and impressive than the first game, it was polished with gorgeous graphics, gameplay, and interesting side-plots. Just PLEASE tell me Mass Effect 3 will be story and plot based.... the story and universe of Mass Effect means a lot to me, we haven't seen a game or sci-fi universe of this scale in a long time, and it would be dsiappointing if they turned it into a Gears of War clone. We don't need anymore "stupid" (Gears, COD, Army of Two) games, there's far to many already. There needs to be more story and plot-based games made. I'm sick of the dumbing down of video games that has occured lately to accomodate stupid people who only care about testerone.

[Schneidend]

It's not a plot-driven game. It's character-driven.



/thread

[Protocept00]

Schneidend wrote...

It's not a plot-driven game. It's character-driven.

/thread

Completely missed the point, I'm hoping Mass Effect 3 will actually have a plot.

[Nautica773]

 Which suffers from a lack of plot and deep characterization. 

On the plus side, characters are a lot better this time around.

[MajorTharmas]

i agree with you, the game would have been much better if it had more focus on the plot. but the characters are fantastic, the gameplay is much smoother and a lot more fun, its less repetitive, way more cinematic... basically everything improved except the main story. luckily the next game will be the finale so it should be all about main plot, i mean they probably wont introduce any new characters. that would be a little silly, we have enough already.

[Protocept00]

Nautica773 wrote...

 Which suffers from a lack of plot and deep characterization. 

On the plus side, characters are a lot better this time around.

The characters are certainly more fleshed out, I won't argue with that. I love the game, I was just hoping for a deeper plot, as well as a stronger showing of the decisions I made in the first game.

[The Demonologist]

I like to think ME3 will strike the perfect balance between ME1 and ME2.

[tzeraph1]

Think you put the hammer on the nail there MajorTharmas .

Modifié par tzeraph1, 09 février 2010 - 12:25 .

[DarthCaine]

And how many were there in ME1?



Eden Prime=Freedom's Hope

Therum=Any recruitment mission

Feros=Horizon

Noveria=_____'s ship

Virmire=IFF

Ilos=Suicide Mission

[Soruyao]

It's a well respected form of storytelling both in films and books. I recommend you look up a film called 7 Samurai by Kurosawa, or an american version of the same plot such as the dirty dozen.



These films definitely have plot, but the plot is about the gathering of people and learning what makes them tick, more than the actual threat they're gathering against. The threat is a foil to enable the real plot.

[Protocept00]

MajorTharmas wrote...

i agree with you, the game would have been much better if it had more focus on the plot. but the characters are fantastic, the gameplay is much smoother and a lot more fun, its less repetitive, way more cinematic... basically everything improved except the main story. luckily the next game will be the finale so it should be all about main plot, i mean they probably wont introduce any new characters. that would be a little silly, we have enough already.

I completely agree with you about the characters, and I can't stress enough how much I enjoy and love the game, I just want more story, I want to know everything there is to know about the universe. I'm sure Bioware will come through, I just wanted to bring it up

[Protocept00]

Soruyao wrote...

It's a well respected form of storytelling both in films and books. I recommend you look up a film called 7 Samurai by Kurosawa, or an american version of the same plot such as the dirty dozen.

These films definitely have plot, but the plot is about the gathering of people and learning what makes them tick, more than the actual threat they're gathering against. The threat is a foil to enable the real plot.

If that was truly their intention, than I suppose I am okay with accepting that. I will look up that film, I keep seeing it mentioned on these forums.

[Nautica773]

MajorTharmas wrote...

i agree with you, the game would have been much better if it had more focus on the plot. but the characters are fantastic, the gameplay is much smoother and a lot more fun, its less repetitive, way more cinematic... basically everything improved except the main story. luckily the next game will be the finale so it should be all about main plot, i mean they probably wont introduce any new characters. that would be a little silly, we have enough already.

Actually, I think they will introduce some new characters. It would be... surprising if all the followers for the third were character's whose lives hinged on the whims of the player base. I expect there will be some familiar faces and some new ones as well. 

I can understand why the plot is so... empty as well. It is the middle of a trilogy, the lead writer changed hands and there was a fairly short development time between 1 and 2. I suspect that 2 and 3 were written together, and so 2 ended up being extraneous story elements wedged between interesting (but brief) character bios.

[Schneidend]

Protocept00 wrote...

Completely missed the point, I'm hoping Mass Effect 3 will actually have a plot.

Completely don't understand what the terms you're using actually mean. A "plot" is just a sequence of events in a story. Mass Effect 2 certainly has one of those. You can't really not have a plot and make a coherent story. What you are asking for, however, is for Mass Effect 3 to be "plot-driven." Which is fine. If you prefer that kind of narration, then that is what you prefer. Mass Effect 2 is simply not plot-driven. It is character-driven, an equally valid literary structure that is pretty much NEVER used in video games.

[Protocept00]

DarthCaine wrote...

And how many were there in ME1?

Eden Prime=Freedom's Hope
Therum=Any recruitment mission
Feros=Horizon
Noveria=_____'s ship
Virmire=IFF
Ilos=Suicide Mission

Yes, plus dozens of cutscenes devoted to the plot. See my point? Mass Effect 2 has 4 missions, and only about... 6 cutscenes devoted to plot, most of which only follow the missions. There's a big disparity there.

[onlyonesock]

From what I understood before the game came out, Shephard was going to recruit a team to kill the collectors, learn about them along the way, and then go kick their asses. That is pretty much exactly what happened.

[Protocept00]

Schneidend wrote...

Protocept00 wrote...

Completely missed the point, I'm hoping Mass Effect 3 will actually have a plot.

Completely don't understand what the terms you're using actually mean. A "plot" is just a sequence of events in a story. Mass Effect 2 certainly has one of those. You can't really not have a plot and make a coherent story. What you are asking for, however, is for Mass Effect 3 to be "plot-driven." Which is fine. If you prefer that kind of narration, then that is what you prefer. Mass Effect 2 is simply not plot-driven. It is character-driven, an equally valid literary structure that is pretty much NEVER used in video games.

Yeah, I see that now, and after that was truly Biowares decision on an artistic merit and not because they wanted to "sell-out", then I'm fine with it. I still wished I could've gotten more answeres out of the story.

[PyroFreak301]

It did lack a bit of plot compared to ME1, but as part 2 of a trilogy it's to be expected to a certain degree. I found pacing to be better in number 1 aswell, you always had to be chasing Saren, and he was always 1 step ahead. I cant pinpoint why, but this game makes it feel like the collectors will wait for you to take your sweet time; there's less urgency about the game.

[Soruyao]

Protocept00 wrote...

If that was truly their intention, than I suppose I am okay with accepting that. I will look up that film, I keep seeing it mentioned on these forums.

I definitely do think that was their intention, since they've mentioned dirty dozen themselves multiple times.   If you watch one of these movies to see the influences, I reccomend you go back to the classic and stick with 7 samurai. (This is a movie that has been copied many many many times, so there's definitely some strong aspects to it.)  Though, keep in mind that it might be a little slower paced than your standard american action movie, since it's very character driven.

There was also an anime made based on it called Samurai 7 which was actually pretty decent.  All the samurai fight while surfing on flying robots and cut enemy battleships in half with their swords, causing many explosions.   One of the characters is a robot, and another one is a girl, but the main idea of the plot is similar.   :3

[ushae]

I agree here, there was a lot of effort placed into character development this time and I really liked it. However the plot became somewhat shortlived because of it. If they can do both excellent story (and most importantly epic) and character development with very well told stories and backgrounds, this time not just taking place in one location, then we'll get a complete trilogy that got better each part.

[Nautica773]

Yeah, the narrative was weak (you learn practically everything there's to know at the beginning of the game), the plot has only three 'moments' and the pacing lacked the urgency it required. Course, that probably stemmed from the game's structure.



To make a character driven plot worked, they would have required greater investment in the characters. But with over half the cast being new people (and with an expanded cast) it would have required a lot more work then they had to developed the game.



Oh well, hopefully lesson learned and they'll apply this new knowledge while they finish up 3.

[Schneidend]

Protocept00 wrote...

Yeah, I see that now, and after that was truly Biowares decision on an artistic merit and not because they wanted to "sell-out", then I'm fine with it. I still wished I could've gotten more answeres out of the story.

If the intention was to "sell-out" then they would have gone with the far easier to formulize plot-driven method. Character-driven stories are the greater gamble, as writing compelling characters isn't as easy as making cool stuff happen. Not that great plots are the poor man's storytelling, by any means, but look at how many movies and stories are about big, dramatic events happening rather than a bunch of people hanging out.

[verskk]

Protocept00 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

And how many were there in ME1?

Eden Prime=Freedom's Hope
Therum=Any recruitment mission
Feros=Horizon
Noveria=_____'s ship
Virmire=IFF
Ilos=Suicide Mission

Yes, plus dozens of cutscenes devoted to the plot. See my point? Mass Effect 2 has 4 missions, and only about... 6 cutscenes devoted to plot, most of which only follow the missions. There's a big disparity there.

Every one of those missions has cutscenes devoted to the "main" plot. I think you're missing the point of DarthCaine's post. ME2 has exactly the same amount of "main" missions, like DarthCaine just showed you. 6. It's just that whereas in ME1, the side missions were forgettable and in ME2, they're so much better that it seems the "main" plot is smaller or less important.

Long story short, the amount of "main missions" is the same in both games. 6.

[The Capital Gaultier]

It is indeed the same number. I think that the final mission was quite a bit longer in ME1, however. That could be something to do in ME3.

[Nautica773]

verskk wrote...
Every one of those missions has cutscenes devoted to the "main" plot. I think you're missing the point of DarthCaine's post. ME2 has exactly the same amount of "main" missions, like DarthCaine just showed you. 6. It's just that whereas in ME1, the side missions were forgettable and in ME2, they're so much better that it seems the "main" plot is smaller or less important.

Long story short, the amount of "main missions" is the same in both games. 6.

Well, except Thyrum is associated with any recruitment mission and all the Mass Effect 2 missions have significantly less plot during these key story segments.