140 réponses à ce sujet

[reepneep]

hanifj wrote...

reepneep wrote...
You really don't get it, do you?  I've seen nearly every idea in ME1's setting done before in various reading and videogame-playing.  One of the bad things about being born before 1995, apparently. <_<

If you'd really be interested in where many of these ideas came from, particularly the alien designs, I highly recommend checking this out:
http://sc2.sourceforge.net/

Starcon3 wasn't anywhere near as good as Starcon2, but bioware lifted a bunch of stuff from that one as well, particularly the Reapers.

I still enjoy the game as a fun Bioware RPG, but it doesn't make the game particularly inventive.

lol i love your childish attack on what my age could be - i'm sorry that's the most you can come back with after i make a compelling argument - are you sure you were born before 1993?

i've been reading sci-fi and watching it for over 25 years

is mass effect ultra new? no of course not. it is based on science, not a land of unicorns and pixie dust.

genocide, battles between civilizations, planet destruction, even the reapers have some predecessor - but please tell me ONE book or GAME or MOVIE that beats ME1 purely on an overall package level?

i get stuff like revelation space is merited on one SPECIFIC aspect of sci-fi like hard science, but name me one game or movie or book that equates to the epic nature of mass effect's plot and universe? despite it all being repetitive, it all feels so fresh - it's like they took the best of various sources, combined it, and made it something very compelling and accessible

Hey, you're the one who started with the temper tantrums and personal insults.  I also see you've edited it out, very mature.  If you actually are twenty-five(six?), I'm still older than you are, though not by nearly as much as I would have hoped by how you conduct yourself.  A child would have an excuse.

The codex was fun to read, sure.  The basic tech of the world is an amusing extrapolation of current science, and it's internally consistent to boot.  It still has little to no bearing on the plot as they ignore it whenever it's inconvenient, however.  The Lovecraftian main plot seemed really silly to me in light of the rather solid world they built for it to take place in.  I must note that I haven't read the novels as I refuse to read lisenced fiction as it is generally awful.

Read Gibson's sprawl trilogy?  Nearly anything by Stephenson?  Asimov's Foundation (assuming you stop with Second Foundation)?  Hell, as much as I dislike it, Herbert's Dune has it beat, too.  Are we talking any genre?  In terms of video games the aforementioned Starcon 2,  Fallout 1,  Planescape Torment, DAO... ME2.  I'm sure I could think of others.  Not sure what criteria I'm supposed to be working with here.

[Darth Drago]

The issue with game reviewers is that they have to review a lot of games each month. How many of these reviewers played ME1 just before playing ME2 to get a refresher on what happened in the first game?

As for the trilogy issue, great example using Lord of the Rings 2, they didn’t spend 70% of that movie/book recruiting companions and cutting the main plotline to a minimum. Most of the companions were aquired in the first film/book.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 09 février 2010 - 03:17 .

[Bob5312]

I wouldn't have minded the time spent recruiting characters and gaining their loyalty if you could use more than two of them at a time. I only really used two or three of them consistently, and the rest I pretty well forgot about once I had exhausted their dialogue options. The use of a 'specialist' in the suicide mission was a nice touch and could have been applied to other missions to get more use out of the rest of the team.

[vhatever]

You know how hard it would be to get the best mercs/soldiers/biotics in the galaxy and have them go into what is assumed to be sure death?



So Jango Fett, you can continue being the biggest bounty hunter badass in the galaxy or you can come fly into a blackhole with me anh hope we come out the other side alive. You game?

[Gaddmeister]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

It did lack a bit of plot compared to ME1, but as part 2 of a trilogy it's to be expected to a certain degree. I found pacing to be better in number 1 aswell, you always had to be chasing Saren, and he was always 1 step ahead. I cant pinpoint why, but this game makes it feel like the collectors will wait for you to take your sweet time; there's less urgency about the game.

And I find the pacing to be better in the sequel. The lack of urgency allows us to go after our team without feeling like we're wasting valuable time. In ME1 pretty much every assignment not directly related to the main missions felt totally weird because of the "race against time" story arc. Nothing but Saren matters, so why are there even other quests? It doesn't make much sense really. That was a major weakness with how the plot was implemented into the game. Even though the plot itself isn't as good in the sequel, I think they solve the main mission/minor assignments gameplay part much better (without revealing too much detail in this non-spoiler forum).

[NINJ4 R4BBID]

Those who do not understand why Shepard is recruiting these individuals should pay more attention to the dialogues and actually read the dossiers (that TIM provides)... it has something to do with the fact that no-one has been trough the "Omega 4 Relay" and came back to tell the tale... Shepard is preparing for the unknown (it's not like anyone knows about those bugs much, some even don't believe they exist)!

Modifié par NINJ4 R4BBID, 09 février 2010 - 04:18 .

[lukandroll]

NINJ4 R4BBID wrote...

Those who do not understand why Shepard is recruiting these individuals should pay more attention to the dialogues and actualy read the dossiers (that TIM provides)... it has something to do with the fact that no-one has been trough the "Omega 4 Relay" and came back to tell the tale... Shepard is preparing for the unknown (it's not like anyone knows about those bugs much, some even don't believe they exist)!

Shepard is preparing for a 5 minutes long fight

[NINJ4 R4BBID]

lukandroll wrote...

NINJ4 R4BBID wrote...

Those who do not understand why Shepard is recruiting these individuals should pay more attention to the dialogues and actualy read the dossiers (that TIM provides)... it has something to do with the fact that no-one has been trough the "Omega 4 Relay" and came back to tell the tale... Shepard is preparing for the unknown (it's not like anyone knows about those bugs much, some even don't believe they exist)!

Shepard is preparing for a 5 minutes long fight

And you knew it from the start (is your Shepard some kind of psychic)!?
And that 5min part weird to... I must be under some real time dilation influence I can swear it was like 30~50min for me (finished it 4 times)!?

Modifié par NINJ4 R4BBID, 09 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[Schneidend]

vhatever wrote...

You know how hard it would be to get the best mercs/soldiers/biotics in the galaxy and have them go into what is assumed to be sure death?

So Jango Fett, you can continue being the biggest bounty hunter badass in the galaxy or you can come fly into a blackhole with me anh hope we come out the other side alive. You game?

Jango: "Sounds cool. I'd rather die fighting an ancient evil than get my jetpack broken by some mutated rhino and have my head unceremoniously chopped off by a Jedi space pimp."

[Effective Mass]

I'd agree the overall plot seems to be toned down in terms of explaining the universe's main facets. However, a lot more about the universe is explored through all the new characters that have been introduced and their stories, which are both personal and reveal a lot about their cultures/species and the overall universe they live in.



I do think that the main plot line in the first game was a lot more engaging and constantly kept throwing some amazing and mind blowing events in every single mission, where as only a few major turning points were present in this game (though I have yet to finish it myself, but am quite close).



The quality of the story branches is much superior to the first game and whom you bring to particular events bring about even more interesting story elements that I found to be very important to the overall universe, which may very well have some major ramifications in the 3rd game's main plot.



A good way to go about would be to intertwine character specific plot along with direct main plot lines so that you always feel like you're chasing/solving a mystery while exploring other aspects as well along the way. I want both to be present in the next game.

[loboME2]

Frankly, I don't understand how introducing a new batch of characters makes it a character driven game. I would agree with another poster that if it were a character driven game, then it should be the original characters of ME1 plus maybe 2-3 news ones (instead of the other way around).



Also, it was in ME1's side mission that you get introduced to cerberus, the main organization driving the 'story' in ME2. So how are the side quests in ME1 ... 'side'?

[Psython]

I agree with OP, ME2 feels like a collection of short side stories than the middle chapter in a novel. I would rather the game be 50% side stories and character story and 50% main story. Instead, ME2 feels like 80% side stories and 20% main. I feel like the game branched out and opened up the universe a lot and let you explore these new places but the main quest just had no urgency or inertia. In ME1, you had to stop the reapers plan to destroy all sapient life in the galaxy and chase Saren across the galaxy. many things were revealed over the course of the game. In ME2, I learned nothing new about the reapers plan. Although there was maybe 5 hours of main quest, most of it was spent fighting and there was basically no plot exposition. I knew almost as much 5 minutes in the game as I did before the suicide mission. I hope in ME3 the game is focused around a real story that unfolds as you play. Hopefully, the game is not based around aquiring a rediculous amount of characters, most of which have no effect on anything.

[Kusatsu]

ME2 ended up creating more questions than it answered, but I like that. It leaves a lot of room for speculation.



I'm in agreement with those who say that they feel it was a collection of short-stories and side missions all put together but really, that worked for me because it made me bond with all the characters.

[yummysoap]

Darth Drago wrote...

yummysoap wrote...

Mass Effect 1: Therum, Noveria, Feros, Virmire, Ilos and Citadel
Mass Effect 2: Freedom's Progress, Horizon, Collector Ship, Derelict Reaper and Suicide Mission.

The additional content in Noveria and Feros was not plot related -- there was about the same amount of plot related mission content in the two games, it's just the second one it was spread out amongst the recruit missions.

Excuse me?
Noveria had key elements when you talked to Benezia, Sarens second in command. Feros had the Thorian which opened up other plot elements behind Sarens motives. Not plot related, yea right...

Err.. sorry, I didn't explain very well.

What I meant was that the plot-based missions in Feros and Noveria were both relatively short, akin to ME2's plot-based missions. Feros and Noveria had additional sidequests which made it feel a lot longer -- the entire beginning of Noveria with Gianna Parasini and that wanker salarian was just a compulsory sidequest.

Mass Effect 2 just feels a lot less plot-driven because it's strewn in between massive amounts of recruitment missions. As far as plot goes, I think the two were relative, with Mass Effect 1 having maybe a little more.

The plot is diluted, I suppose. As Mass Effect 2 is a much longer game, but I don't think it's much less plot-centric than ME1 was.

[lukandroll]

NINJ4 R4BBID wrote...

lukandroll wrote...

NINJ4 R4BBID wrote...

Those who do not understand why Shepard is recruiting these individuals should pay more attention to the dialogues and actualy read the dossiers (that TIM provides)... it has something to do with the fact that no-one has been trough the "Omega 4 Relay" and came back to tell the tale... Shepard is preparing for the unknown (it's not like anyone knows about those bugs much, some even don't believe they exist)!

Shepard is preparing for a 5 minutes long fight

And you knew it from the start (is your Shepard some kind of psychic)!?
And that 5min part weird to... I must be under some real time dilation influence I can swear it was like 30~50min for me (finished it 4 times)!?

Yeah, I just cloacked rushed to next valve, cloacked rushed to the next valve, more or less 10 minutes, excluding cuscenes and dialogue offcourse

[TuringPoint]

I'm sorry, OP, but my opinion is:



ME 2 is a better executed story. Better story? Debatable. The experience wasn't as cohesive, I can see that, but it was a ton more intense. If every other mission related to the collectors, they'd lose a little bit of their mystery each time. As it is, Collector-related missions stood alone as great breakthrough's more than they would have if every plot involved them. The story doesn't seem as weak to me as it seems to be to some of you because I take it for what it is, a drama of what Shepard's going through.



That said, let's consider something. There were a few planets for the plot to take place on: Eden Prime, Feros, Noveria, Therum, Virmire, and Ilos. At the end of each mission there is a little bit of exposition on what Saren's plan is, which is what you're ultimately working towards. Nothing substantially new or surprising though, in my mind.



In ME 2 you have: Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the Collector Ship, the Reaper, and the Suicide Mission. One fewer mission - only one, but you're not given to know what to expect quite as much. Some of the hardest battles as well. Some incredible atmosphere, more "experience" of what is going on rather than hearing what Saren is going to do and working to stop him. But, Geth were some of the easiest opponents to face, and you only meet the antagonist twice. We had an interesting antagonist, but if they had repeated this approach it would've gotten a little bit formulaic, and we wouldn't have gotten any closer to the Reapers.



So I don't think cohesiveness is all that makes a good story great, and I liked the unconventional enemy we were facing, and how it became an excuse for personal drama. How that personal drama related to performance in the suicide mission could've been made clearer, I suspect, and I suspect that would've made the story more cohesive - if not in your mind, at least it would be more cohesive in mine.



We were also dealing with the Reaper threat a little more directly in this sequel, coming closer to understanding the size of our struggle.

[lukandroll]

Alocormin wrote...

I'm sorry, OP, but my opinion is:

ME 2 is a better executed story. Better story? Debatable. The experience wasn't as cohesive, I can see that, but it was a ton more intense. If every other mission related to the collectors, they'd lose a little bit of their mystery each time. As it is, Collector-related missions stood alone as great breakthrough's more than they would have if every plot involved them. The story doesn't seem as weak to me as it seems to be to some of you because I take it for what it is, a drama of what Shepard's going through.

That said, let's consider something. There were a few planets for the plot to take place on: Eden Prime, Feros, Noveria, Therum, Virmire, and Ilos. At the end of each mission there is a little bit of exposition on what Saren's plan is, which is what you're ultimately working towards. Nothing substantially new or surprising though, in my mind.

In ME 2 you have: Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the Collector Ship, the Reaper, and the Suicide Mission. One fewer mission - only one, but you're not given to know what to expect quite as much. Some of the hardest battles as well. Some incredible atmosphere, more "experience" of what is going on rather than hearing what Saren is going to do and working to stop him. But, Geth were some of the easiest opponents to face, and you only meet the antagonist twice. We had an interesting antagonist, but if they had repeated this approach it would've gotten a little bit formulaic, and we wouldn't have gotten any closer to the Reapers.

So I don't think cohesiveness is all that makes a good story great, and I liked the unconventional enemy we were facing, and how it became an excuse for personal drama. How that personal drama related to performance in the suicide mission could've been made clearer, I suspect, and I suspect that would've made the story more cohesive - if not in your mind, at least it would be more cohesive in mine.

We were also dealing with the Reaper threat a little more directly in this sequel, coming closer to understanding the size of our struggle.

Cohesive?? Its ****ing pointless, the bulk of the game Its about  to help your teammates to do things that are NOT even REMOTELY related to the main plot...

I mean you got collectors taking entire colonies while whats Shepard doing?? He found out that there are no fishes in the Presidium pools

Modifié par lukandroll, 09 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[MajorTharmas]

oh wow.... how did this thread develop into bashing the game? i feel really bad for the op who wanted just some tame discussion when he/she very clearly loved the game then the HAY ME2 SUCKS crowd comes marching in to try and make everyone else hate the game as much as they do so that they don't feel alone in their mindless misanthropy.

[Soruyao]

It's like a plot has to be linear for people to consider it as a plot, and that everything that happens has to be directly caused by the main threat in the universe.



You want to know a game that has a cohesive plot where everything that happens is caused by the main threat? Gears of war 2.



That's right, the gears of war series has a cohesive plot. People, think about what you're asking for here.

[Schneidend]

lukandroll wrote...

I mean you got collectors taking entire colonies while whats Shepard doing?? He found out that there are no fishes in the Presidium pools

Finding out there are no fish on the Presidium = scanning keepers

Collectors are taking entire colonies = Saren is out there trying to find some kind of super weapon

Side quests are just that: quests that only rarely have anything to do with the main plot. At least ME2 gives you the option to do them AFTER the immediate threat has passed.

[Daveastation]

Seriously, where is the logic that ME1 is longer? you can speed run it in 4 hours.

[MPaBkaTa123]

Have to agree that ME1 was more focused on the main plot. Still the new characters i think are far superior.

[Stofsk]

Daveastation wrote...

Seriously, where is the logic that ME1 is longer? you can speed run it in 4 hours.

I've said it many times in other threads, but basically people have their rose coloured glasses on when they look back on ME1.

[kraze07]

Daveastation wrote...

Seriously, where is the logic that ME1 is longer? you can speed run it in 4 hours.

I'm pretty sure the same could be done in ME2.

[Stofsk]

kraze07 wrote...

Daveastation wrote...

Seriously, where is the logic that ME1 is longer? you can speed run it in 4 hours.

I'm pretty sure the same could be done in ME2.

Not if you don't want to die at the end.