196 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

kazic284 wrote...

Pretty sure he/she was joking Errant

Yes, that was my way of saying lets keep this thread to real discussion, not one liners.

[Grimauld]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Ibby1kanobi wrote...

Quick Question: I was told that even if you refuse the Dark ritual, she will still be seen with a baby at the end of the game if you romanced her at any point in the game....even if you broke it off and chose Leliana....true?

* If you are a male warden, and you romanced Morrigan, and did the Ritual - Old God baby.

* If you are a male warden, and you romanced Morrigan, and refused the Ritual - baby, but not an old god one (you did have sex with her, after all).

* If you are a female warden, and you have someone else do the Ritual - Old God baby.

* If you are a female warden, and you refuse the Ritual - no baby at all (because M. didn't have sex with anyone).

[Edited for clarity and formatting.]

But in any ending other than the ritual- a warden dies with the old-gods soul. So Morrigan may have a baby from an earlier tryst but it won't have any connection to the archdemon, right?

[draxynnus]

Doyle41 wrote...

Also, if Flemeth was having or stealing children, there is no guarantee that they would be mages. That would certainly encourage the sacrifice of these particular children if the had no magic.

If she's stealing them, I suspect she has a means of scoping out whether they have magic or not before she takes them.

[TheLion36]

draxynnus wrote...
From my memory of the discussion about the ritual, the whole point was that the soul of the Old God would be in an untainted body and thus cleansed.

It's also worth noting that while Grey Wardens have reduced fertility, they can still have children, and those children aren't automatically Grey Wardens - it seems that the taint isn't passed on.

This makes sense with one exception... Morrigan states that the child has to be conceived by a grey warden so the child will carry the taint, this is what pulls the old gods soul from the Archdemon into the child and not into other wardens. This indicates that, at least when using the ritual, the taint is passed on to the child. Whether or not the child outgrows the taint later on is never mentioned.

[errant_knight]

TheLion36 wrote...

draxynnus wrote...
From my memory of the discussion about the ritual, the whole point was that the soul of the Old God would be in an untainted body and thus cleansed.

It's also worth noting that while Grey Wardens have reduced fertility, they can still have children, and those children aren't automatically Grey Wardens - it seems that the taint isn't passed on.

This makes sense with one exception... Morrigan states that the child has to be conceived by a grey warden so the child will carry the taint, this is what pulls the old gods soul from the Archdemon into the child and not into other wardens. This indicates that, at least when using the ritual, the taint is passed on to the child. Whether or not the child outgrows the taint later on is never mentioned.

The god-child is untainted by means Morrigan explained. Sorry can't remember right not, it's late. But Grey wardens do have tainted children. that's why the archdemons soul tried to go there. Also, fertility is extremely reduced, not just...reduced. Like nearly impossible.

Modifié par errant_knight, 12 février 2010 - 08:46 .

[TheLion36]

errant_knight wrote...
Morrigan also explains how the taint is destroyed althoth I don't remember the details. Sorry, it's late. But the child is untainted.

I remember her saying that the child could handle the soul and that the tainted part of the soul would be cleansed. I can't really remember her speaking about the grey warden taint being destroyed (this could be destroyed at the same time the soul is cleansed tho), however I know the child won't be simply tainted otherwise the soul would become the next Archdemon... I've always wondered however if the child would become taint immune somehow, imagine an old god that couldn't be tainted again.

(Its been a while since I've done the ritual bit besides just going through a few sentences so I might have forgotten something she said as well).

Modifié par TheLion36, 12 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[metatheurgist]

errant_knight wrote...

I always thought she had eyes like a wolf. I figured it was reflective of her shapechanger abilities.

I remember Morrigan saying that Flemeth had once been young and beautiful, but not that she'd seen it. That would be a huge game changer, because it would mean that Morrigan is thousands of years old, too. I've suspected that, but didn't think there was any proof. Do you remember the exact words and where this was?

Sometime after asking - Are you really Flemeth's daughter?

PC: She was not always as old as she is now, was she?
Morrigan: As a matter of act, I remember her being younger once. She had black hair much like my own, long and lustrous.
Morrigan: But how could that be if she is centuries old? Has she become wizened only recently? Or are the tales of her legend only that and nothing more?

And here's a pic illustrating camp Morrigan's green eyes and ritual Morrigans yellow/brown eyes.

[TheLion36]

Yes her eyes are green in camp, but at most dialog locations througout the game her eyes are solid yellow... Here's some images, from Left to Right: Ritual Morrigan, Morrigan on First Encounter and Morrigan in front of Flemeths house after just recruiting her.

Also note the reddish skin colour she has in the ritual conversation picture which indicates a valid reason why her eyes seem more brown than yellow there and why her hair has a slightly different colour in that picture.

Modifié par TheLion36, 12 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[master-fluff]

TheLion36 wrote...

I remember her saying that the child could handle the soul and that the tainted part of the soul would be cleansed. I can't really remember her speaking about the grey warden taint being destroyed (this could be destroyed at the same time the soul is cleansed tho), however I know the child won't be simply tainted otherwise the soul would become the next Archdemon... I've always wondered however if the child would become taint immune somehow, imagine an old god that couldn't be tainted again.

(Its been a while since I've done the ritual bit besides just going through a few sentences so I might have forgotten something she said as well).

I remember this from somewhere too.  But I've just reloaded and played the conversation with Morrigan a few times and can't find it. Here's what Morrigan says about the child:

"The child will bear the taint, and when the AD is slain, it's essence will seek out the child like a beacon."

In response to the Q about what do she intends to do with this child when you insist knowing: "The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint.  Is that not reason enough to do it?"

In reponse to the Q asking if the child will be evil: "Allow me to say that what I seek is the essence of the old God that once was and not the dark forces that corrupted it.  Some things are worth preserving in this world.  Make of that what you will."

When you refuse and she asks if you will not reconsider, PC can say "And bring some demon-spawn into the world ?  Never !", Morrigan says "Then you are a fool.  I will not stand by and watch you waste this opportunity."  Morrigan exits stage left.

So that makes it perfectly clear  !

[SusanStoHelit]

Grimauld wrote...


But in any ending other than the ritual- a warden dies with the old-gods soul. So Morrigan may have a baby from an earlier tryst but it won't have any connection to the archdemon, right?

Correct.

[SusanStoHelit]

master-fluff wrote...

I remember this from somewhere too.  But I've just reloaded and played the conversation with Morrigan a few times and can't find it. Here's what Morrigan says about the child:

"The child will bear the taint, and when the AD is slain, it's essence will seek out the child like a beacon."

In response to the Q about what do she intends to do with this child when you insist knowing: "The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint.  Is that not reason enough to do it?"

In reponse to the Q asking if the child will be evil: "Allow me to say that what I seek is the essence of the old God that once was and not the dark forces that corrupted it.  Some things are worth preserving in this world.  Make of that what you will."

When you refuse and she asks if you will not reconsider, PC can say "And bring some demon-spawn into the world ?  Never !", Morrigan says "Then you are a fool.  I will not stand by and watch you waste this opportunity."  Morrigan exits stage left.

So that makes it perfectly clear  !

Confusing, no? I seem to recall David Gaider saying that the children of Grey Wardens are not born with the taint; of course, who knows what the ritual does?

Could the child be tainted when conceived - but not tainted when born? Possible, I suppose, if Morrigan has some other ritual to cleanse the taint from the child. Or possibly Urthemiel can cleanse the taint (being a god) if he is awake. This does not, however, explain my vague memory of DG saying that the children of wardens are not born tainted. After all, the mothers of those children wouldn't have an Old God or Flemeth/Morrigan around to cleanse the baby.

Perhaps it's just a 'bad' dialogue like the Alistair hardening one - and the first part should say "the child will seem to bear the taint"?

[SusanStoHelit]

draxynnus wrote...

Susan: We don't know if there's a blood link between Morrigan and Flemeth. In fact, even Morrigan seems to think it was more likely that she was adopted (possibly against the will of her biological parents) rather than being the child of Flemeth's womb.

Sorry, for the lateness, but I haven't been around for the last day or so. It's true that we don't know that - I suspect it to be true for this reason, though. But as I said, it's not necessary, given the plethora of other means of possession - it just makes it easier.

[master-fluff]

A couple of things that struck me whilst reading through some codices last night.  Also back to the raven thing.

An ancient elven god, Dirthamen, Keeper of the Secrets, had 2 raven servants.  One was Fear, the other Deceit.  The elven gods are now said to be sealed away by the trickery of the elven dread wolf god, Fen'Harel, so the ravens lost their master and presumably are now free.  So in addition to the Flemeth-raven thing, whose battle cry is "You shall learn to fear me !"  and who wears black feathers on her robes ?

The other thing is that I understand Flemeth's grimoire has an image of a tree on it (although couldn't find reference to it in the wiki and can't remember it directly).  The tree is the symbol for Arlathan, the fallen ancient elven city, and it's why there's a tree (a Vhenadahl) in every alienage to remind the elves of their history.  Is a tree a symbol for anything important in human lore ?

Makes me wonder which ancient god(s) Flemeth/Morrigan plans to free.  Elven, human ?  Are they one and the same anyway ? 
So many little things that could be clues,  Or not [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[master-fluff]

sorry, double post

Modifié par master-fluff, 12 février 2010 - 12:04 .

[draxynnus]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Confusing, no? I seem to recall David Gaider saying that the children of Grey Wardens are not born with the taint; of course, who knows what the ritual does?

Could the child be tainted when conceived - but not tainted when born? Possible, I suppose, if Morrigan has some other ritual to cleanse the taint from the child. Or possibly Urthemiel can cleanse the taint (being a god) if he is awake. This does not, however, explain my vague memory of DG saying that the children of wardens are not born tainted. After all, the mothers of those children wouldn't have an Old God or Flemeth/Morrigan around to cleanse the baby.

Perhaps it's just a 'bad' dialogue like the Alistair hardening one - and the first part should say "the child will seem to bear the taint"?

Here's the quote:

David Gaider wrote...

A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.

So, normally, a child of a Grey Warden isn't tainted - it seems the ritual may have done something to change that, however, or at least make it seem tainted as you say.

master-fluff wrote...

An ancient elven god, Dirthamen, Keeper of the Secrets, had 2 raven servants.  One was Fear, the other Deceit.  The elven gods are now said to be sealed away by the trickery of the elven dread wolf god, Fen'Harel, so the ravens lost their master and presumably are now free.  So in addition to the Flemeth-raven thing, whose battle cry is "You shall learn to fear me !"  and who wears black feathers on her robes ?

Interesting parallel with Odin there... 

[SusanStoHelit]

Curlain wrote...

Also though, I think Morrigan is more inspired by the Irish mythological figure of the same name (and variants of that name) that was possibly once a Celtic deity.

The Morrigan was - and still is - a Celtic deity. She is a triple goddess, of war, fertility, and vegetation (growth and life).  She is also known as Macha, Medb or Maeve, Etain Echraide; and is probably synonymous with Badbh Catha, Eriu, Fodla, Nemain, and Rhiannon.

She is a goddess of creation and destruction. At Samhain she mates with the Dagda to ensure the future prosperity of the Land, and as Queen Maeve of Connacht she was ritually wedded to the mortal king.  As Nemain (panic) and Badb Catha (raven of battle) she is more warlike and destructive. Rather than engaging directly in battle, she uses her supernatural powers to spread fear and disarray. The Irish hero Cu Chulainn was visited by her on the battle field.

She is a shapechanger, able to change into various animal forms and uses the shape of a raven or crow to foretell the outcome of battle. She's also closely associated with horse symbolism.

There's more, but it's late, I'm tired, so I'll leave it at that.

[SusanStoHelit]

master-fluff wrote...

An ancient elven god, Dirthamen, Keeper of the Secrets, had 2 raven servants.  One was Fear, the other Deceit. 

As draxynnus says, interesting parallel with Odin - though his were Thought and Memory, as I recall.

[draxynnus]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

master-fluff wrote...

An ancient elven god, Dirthamen, Keeper of the Secrets, had 2 raven servants.  One was Fear, the other Deceit. 

As draxynnus says, interesting parallel with Odin - though his were Thought and Memory, as I recall.

They are, now that you mention it. There's another parallel in that Odin had wisdom, magic, and prophecy among his responsibilities, which serves as another parallel with Dirthamen's identity as the keeper of secrets.

[SusanStoHelit]

draxynnus wrote...

They are, now that you mention it. There's another parallel in that Odin had wisdom, magic, and prophecy among his responsibilities, which serves as another parallel with Dirthamen's identity as the keeper of secrets.

Has David only got one eye - and if so, did he give it up to gain access to wisdom/power/magic?

[TheLion36]

master-fluff wrote...
The other thing is that I understand Flemeth's grimoire has an image of a tree on it (although couldn't find reference to it in the wiki and can't remember it directly).

Flemeth's Grimoire: An old, but lovingly cared for book, bound in leather of questionable origins. The pages smell of herbs and wood smoke. Intricate stitching on the cover marks out a leafless tree, strangely ominous in its stark appearance. 

Flemeth however is described as having been a Shaman (or member of a shaman tribe) by Morrigan at some point (I think she mentions this in the Flemeth legend told by Morrigan), so it could be that it is a reference to this... The raven feathers on Morrigans suit, well she can transform into a bird, at least according to her banther with Shale and I think she mentions it sometimes when you talk to her about the wilds so it could be connected to that. It also simply gives her a wild look. But it might just as well be a clue... who knows.

I know what you mean with all the clues and whether or not they are clues, its maddening! 

I've never noticed the ravens myself but will definately keep an eye out for them next time I get in those areas! 

Modifié par TheLion36, 12 février 2010 - 12:37 .

[Alandros]

Like everyone I have some opinions and theories on this also.



First I've tried just about every dialogue combination with Morrigan as a love interest and there's no doubt that she can and does fully fall in love with the PC. In certain dialogues she even expresses how settling down some day isn't completely out of her mind (at one point she asks if that's what you are expecting, in a joking way, if you basically say that it's good she doesn't want that because you don't she'll respond saying that she didn't say she didn't want that and act a bit dissapointed). On top of that some of the final dialogues can lead to her saying she wished she could give the PC so much more if it were a different place and time. In the end this suggests that wanting to embrace love (which is still a foreign if not completely denied concept to her at the end) is definitely a desire that can arrise in her, which obviously makes it one possible direction she would want to go. This tells me that if she felt she could she would try for the best of both worlds, get all she wants, and keep the main PC love relationship -and- have this old God spirit in their child. This is not in fact an option to her, at least as she expresses, at all, which tells me there are reasons why it simply can't happen (or in her mind), basically that there's an alternate motivation that is mutually exclusive of keeping her relationship, some more likely possibilities:



In this theory there must be two things met:

1) A reason or reasons why that her goal and love relationship are mutually exclusive (in her mind)

2) A motivation greater than her love relationship





1) Some reasons why it might be mutally exclusive:



a) She will be doing something that the main character will absolutely not approve of or can be a part of.



This is more than just being "evil" (though such is a relative term espcially in a Dragon Age world, whose the good and bad guys, they both are) or "bad" compared to the world standards since the PC can in fact be quite nasty themselves. This suggests it might be something that changes her to something in which she feels she cannot continue the relationship with, or possibly she isn't what she seems at all in the first place, maybe she's shapechanged to human from another form for example and human not being her real form and to raise this child it will expose what she is. The other possibility is that she plans to do something so horrible to the child (or she knows the PC will deem it as that) that she thinks the relationship wouldn't work. It's definitely more than just gaining power since the PC can be a power hungry person as well, which wouldn't exclude their relationship continuing. I personally don't think she'll repeat Flemeth's process, she herself has expressed different viewpoints than her mother pointing out that her mother was bitter and it clouded her views, she also knows what it's like being on the recieving side of it and I honestly don't think the character (after going through learning of that and experiencing real love) will be the same mother Flemeth was (on top of Flemeth not having much or any humanity left).





She must protect the PC love from what might/will happen



In this possibility something will happen or might very likely happen that will end up killing or doing worse to the PC if he comes. Maybe this old god child will only warm to Morrigan (for whatever reasons) and very likely not to the PC so Morrigan doesn't want to have the guilt of her love dying (she pretends to hide it but in regards to love she is more vulnerable than most people). There's also a possibility that she feels she will become Flemeth or is pretty sure Flemeth will indeed take her over and she doesn't want her love being in her mothers hands (knowing what she would do to him), I think this is less likely since she seemed quite certain in avoiding Flemeth and the character helped her in that regard before (or could have helped her that is) so keeping the PC with he would help her defend against Flemeth.





2) Some possibly motivations that are greater



a) The obvious one is bringing the old god to power (possibly influencing that power as well) with the possible goal of destroying the Chantry and that sort of civilization. She and her mother were apostates and she very much fights against the concept of magic users being reigned in and ruled over. Morrigan is not evil, things in such a complex world of Dragon Age doesn't come down to good or evil. It comes down to views and perspectives. Morrigan views the Chantry ruled society (which is firmly entrenched across Thedas) as bad (evil from her perspective you can say) and she can see people like her mother arrising from such a society to survive and she obviously has a disdain for that. She also makes some interesting comments about duty at certain points that suggests Morrigan may in fact have a deeper sense of duty but simply sees most peopls sense of duty as silly. Duty to the old Gods and to liberating herself (and others like her) from the Chantry (and Maker) however might be something she was raised with (since Flemeth certainly could go in that direction) and maybe she does indeed truly value.



There's also the obvious linkage between being raised knowing the old ways and the old gods by her mother. Through the bits and pieces of Thedas history you can glean a rough "theory" (again this is my theory pieced off of what I've read in game and by the writers on the forums) of how things were... that people worshipped what began being called as "The Maker" before recorded history, supposedly (or so some say) that being/god imprisoned the old gods deep underground for some reasons (some saying that the old gods turned them away from the other being/god to worship them)... From here they wandered the Fade and interacted with the Tevinter magisters who could enter the Fade, they taught them magic. Then supposedly Dumat convinced them they would want to enter the "Golden City" in the Fade... they did, bad things happened which caused the Darkspawn etc... and then the old gods stopped communicating (or at least Dumat from what I gathered). the Darkspawn dig deep for the old gods (or supposedly the old God's as high dragons, they definitely are big dragons, whether they are old God's can be assumed but not confirmed) and corrupt them and then a Blight starts, etc etc...



To me it sounds like there's a long fued between the "Old Gods" and the Being (I won't call it the maker since it seems to have been worshipped in lore long before that name was attached). The Being (which may in fact be more than a single one since there is a big city in the fade) imprisoned the old gods for one, then the old gods ran into the magisters in the Fade (being trapped down below and the only way they could communicate I would imagine) and taught them magic (possibly for the express goal of...) then got them to enter the Golden City. From there whoever presided (or whatever) there did something that created the Darkspawn taint which coincidentally might be seeking out to corrupt the Old Gods. This sounds like that may be the entire purpose, or two fold... a way for that "Being" or group of beings to seek out and effectively destroy the old Gods, them being imprisoned suggests that they might not so easily be destroyed but this is a way, and a way to punish the people that turned to them and did their bidding (even if while being decieved) to enter the Gold City in the Fade. Lot's of theory but it seems to me that there's an Old God vs. Being/Maker fued going on (fights between powerful beings of the Fade, or some of the Fade, some not but or whatever) and of Morrigan is "aligned" with the old Gods (being raised to that perspective rather than the Chantry one) then a greater duty is helping to destroy the Chantry, re-instate an old God (or more than one), and who knows maybe even destroy the Being/Maker in the long run (or take over the Golden/Black City). Part of that could be destroying the Darkspawn if they were in fact initiated by the Being/Maker.



One thing to keep in mind is the old God that is supposedly in the current Archdemon could be Urthemiel, which is the god/dragon of Beauty who was worshiped by artists, musicians, and poets. If Morrigan is correct that she can grab the old God's soul without the taint that made it the Archdemon then there are two signifact things (or possibly significant things):



1) That may be the only way arround the imprisonment, being tainted it freed itself as an Archdemon and now she can snatch the untainted soul, the Old God got around the imprisonment.

2) That doesn't sound so bad if it is in fact not tainted, the God of beauty, music, art, and poetry. That doesn't sound so nefarious and may in fight be a possible "good" path. If the Maker/Being caused the darkspawn as a way to punish the people and to destroy the old Gods then maybe the Old God's aren't as bad as they seem. Again it's probably not who is good or evil since they both seem manipulative in this case (Dumat convincing them to enter the Golden City and the Maker for creating the Darkspawn), but to me this sounds like a possibly greater motivation for Morrigan that doesn't seem so bad.





So lots of rambling and wild theories, but those are my ideas

[SusanStoHelit]

Rambling perhaps, and it's 'feud' not 'fued', lol. Nevertheless, there are some good ideas in there. Many of them have already been discussed in this thread, or others. That doesn't mean that it's not good that you've come up with them too, of course. :-)

Yes, I've long come to the conclusion that the real "bad guys" in Thedas are the Chantry - not the individual priests as such, but the hierarchy and it's teachings. And, indeed, I believe (only time will tell if I'm correct, of course) that saving Urthemiel is a good thing - no matter what Morrigan intends. Because I do believe that there is a war going on here - and I don't mean on the surface of Thedas. A war between the Maker and the Old Gods, which is merely being reflected on the surface.

Furthermore, I believe that you are right when you suspect it isn't clear who is on the side of 'good' and who isn't. Will it turn out that the Maker is 'evil' or, at least, selfish, power-hungry, and corrupt? He is the cause of the darkspawn, after all; and I believe that he blackened the golden city. I don't believe that humanity's pride or whatever did that at all.

Of course, I could be wrong about that, we really just don't have some of the crucial pieces of evidence. I'm hoping that Urthemiel, if we save him, will give us more information about what's REALLY happening. Or, at least, about his side of the story. All we've got so far is not even the Maker's side of the story, but rather the Chantry's version of it. And religious organisations are not notoriously good at being unbiased or at maintaining records impartially. They tend to dispose of those that they don't like - or rewrite them. As they did (dispose of) the records of the elves helping Andraste.

[Edited for spelling and formatting.]

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 12 février 2010 - 09:22 .

[Curlain]

I don't think we are or should ever get absolute confirmation of the existence of the Maker, or the elven god (or even any absolute confirmation on the true nature of the Old Gods), which a war between these deities would provide. I like that belief in the deities in this game is a matter of faith, there are things that those who believe can look to as confirmation of their belief but that others can look at very differently and disagree.



So a another figure rising to appose the Andraste figure with their own movement would be interesting, but I think the writers should maintain the ambiguity of the divine in Thedas, so it remains a matter of faith, not fact, as it is in many other fantasy settings.

[SusanStoHelit]

Curlain wrote...

I don't think we are or should ever get absolute confirmation of the existence of the Maker, or the elven god (or even any absolute confirmation on the true nature of the Old Gods), which a war between these deities would provide. I like that belief in the deities in this game is a matter of faith, there are things that those who believe can look to as confirmation of their belief but that others can look at very differently and disagree.

So a another figure rising to appose the Andraste figure with their own movement would be interesting, but I think the writers should maintain the ambiguity of the divine in Thedas, so it remains a matter of faith, not fact, as it is in many other fantasy settings.

Umm, the Old Gods at least are fact. You did meet the Archdemon, right? And grey wardens of the past met and killed other Archdemons - who are Old Gods. Unless you're saying that they're not really gods? A viable hypothesis, of course, but a hypothesis only.

And if one set of gods is real, and they're involved in a conflict with another god and his followers, one assumes that they must be real too. If they're not 'gods' but just some uberpowerful entities of some kind, they are nevertheless real and have been worshipped as gods for millennia.

In any case, I would like to find out.

[Curlain]

Well the Old Gods aren't actually confirmed as real, we have an Archdemon yes, and we know that a number of people believe them to be the Old Gods of the Tenvinter Imperium but not everyone. One of Brother Genetivi's codex entries on the Archdemons does speculate on what Archdemons are, are they the Old Gods or are they high dragons sleeping deep down, corrupted and tainted by the darkspawn (possibly becoming thereby a focus of their hivemind). So the Old Gods (and Archdemons being Old Gods) is a matter of speculation in the world of Thedas itself, and therefore is certainly not an absolute fact, but is something for us to decide on as we play through.

Morrigan believes in them yes, but does that mean they are so? She is powerful but not all powerful or all knowing, and yes Archdemons are not like ordinary High Dragons, but is this due to them being Old Gods or due to the taint that transforming them (similar to it transforming female humans, elves, dwarves and quanri into Broodmothers) and/or the fact they are more ancient dragons hibernating deep underground (as Brother Genetivi's codex shows is one train of scholarly thought in Thedas)?

There are allot of possibilities, one being there are no Old Gods just as there might be no Maker. I like that personally, it's a matter of faith and your own interpretation of things in the world, rather then becoming established fact

Also if they are Old Gods, what is an Old God?  A actual 'godly' being, ancient mages who are like Flemeth (transforming into dragons) but more powerful, and earlier race of dragon-kind that was much more intelligent (like Tolkienesk and D&D dragons)?  Lots and lots of possiblities

Modifié par Curlain, 12 février 2010 - 10:09 .