117 réponses à ce sujet

[CLime]

Edit: Double trouble.

Modifié par CLime, 21 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[Athenau]

With Hardened you also spend more time in AR overall, meaning more time to line up shots. If you're some shooter prodigy and always make headshots, time dilation or no, then yes, they're about equal. In practical terms, though, I think it's a safe assumption that for a good, but not prodigal player, spending 45% of the time in 50% slowdown is more useful than spending 33% of the time in 70% slowdown in terms of net change from misses to hits and from hits to headshots. That's what I mean by "offensive ability

From the player's perspective, you get 5 seconds of real time to shoot people in the face in either case. But things will be moving 3.33 times slower in heightened vs 2x slower for hardened. So, if anything, it's easier to line up shots in heightened.

Modifié par Athenau, 21 février 2010 - 05:01 .

[CLime]

Okay, I phrased that poorly.  It's easier to line up any given shot in Heightened, but the longer real duration of Hardened means you get to shoot more.  If, say, you can get headshots 75% of the time with no AR, 95% of the time at 50% dilation, and 100% of the time at 70% dilation, then Hardened is going to be preferable.  Those are just arbitrary values, but they illustrate the point.  The only time Heightened is going to be a bigger help offensively is when you're gaining more hits going from 50% to 70% than you're gaining going from no dilation to 50%, and that's going to be very rare.

[Athenau]

Edit:  I see what you're saying.   The headshot bonus is +100% of base weapon damage so hardened allowing you to get more headshots over the duration is indeed an advantage, depending on how often you land headshots during the cooldown.

Modifié par Athenau, 21 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Lyanouche]

Interesting thread thanks for the work.

It explain why even insanity looks like a cakewalk with a soldier.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Am I the only one that finds the fact that Eric ****nan's name is censored incredibly hilarious?

[RighteousRage]

blank1 wrote...

Anyone who use adrenaline rush constantly would have recognized that things seem to die faster when using it. In Insanity, I practically spammed adrenaline rush.

Yes, playing as a soldier is basically playing the game in slow motion, haha

[Vizzer1234]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Am I the only one that finds the fact that Eric ****nan's name is censored incredibly hilarious?

No sir, you are not.

[MilesMilitis]

I do love the Soldier class but I also play completely offensive with  my infiltrator... My widow rifle fully upgraded gives one shot kills on almost anything, especially with improved Geth boost and Assasination cloak on that gives me 85% damage plus my visor gives me another 10% so I attack with 95% most of the time. If I feel like playing up close I sneak up and flank enemies up close with my Locust sub machine gun. I also have an advantage over the soldier since I have incinerate and tech upgrades actually have an effect on me. The soldier only has combat  powers (I could be wrong) which don't have upgrades. Ive beat it with the infiltrator on insanity twice so far, Infiltrator for me :happy:

[otakon17]

Bump

[ryoldschool]

Eric ****nan posted this about 8 days ago in the "I love the Viper" thread:

Eric ****nan wrote...



Distance multipliers for weapons multiply the final damage number with all upgrades. So shotguns will do x2 of the total damage at a very close range.



Adrenaline Rush behaves the same way; it multiplies the total weapon damage you do.



Keep in mind that ammo powers are still a completely separate damage call. Adrenaline Rush does not affect ammo power damage. Ammo powers are considered a power, so they get bonuses from power upgrades, not weapon upgrades, and they always take their initial damage value from the base weapon damage without upgrades. It's worth noting that ammo powers do get a distance multiplier like weapons. This was done to keep ammo power damage consistent, so when we say that an ammo power does X% of weapon damage, that is true for any range because it shares the distance multiplier of the weapon.



I'll add this to the gameplay thread.

[Wynter86]

The other thing I haven't seen mention of here yet is that Heightened has another benefit to it: increased mobility. When you run with adrenaline rush on, you run visually at the same speed as you do with it off, i.e. Adrenaline Rush gives you a significant increase to movement speed, with Heightened making you run even faster. Hence I often find Heightened is fantastic when, say, a damn YMIR Mech is hovering over your head and about to walk round your cover and you have to make a mad dash for freedom.

The other thing often being missed here is the fact that we are human. We make mistakes. We miss shots. Hell, you can even miss with Adrenaline Rush on if you're lining up a headshot, say, and the enemy moves when you're not expecting them to. Heightened is a lot more forgiving in this regard, and hence easier to play. So mathematically, Hardened might be better in terms of raw dps with 100% accuracy and negating unshielded damage, but Heightened is likely to be the stronger in a practical situation, since ideally you shouldn't be getting shot through to health unless it's unavoidable or you are extremely confident of survival so its effective damage reduction on shields/barriers is damn handy, and because it does more damage per ammo and will simply counteract human errors far better.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Talk about major necro, man. This thread was old when I first joined.

The discussion's moved on since then. Nowadays it's generally accepted that Heightened is better for slow firing weapons, and Hardened is better for rapid-fire weapons, b/c Hardened will let you get off more 'buffed' shots, while Heightened gives the maximum damage for single shots. The Mattock rifle benefits more or less equally from either b/c it's RoF cap isn't limited in any meaningful way under dilation.

The movement / durability bonus of ARush is well known too. It's a key component in playing the Claymore Soldier.

[ArchLord James]

All this talk about getting less shots off in real time is completely stupid and irrelevant. Basic physics; time and motion is relative. That means if your getting less shots of in real time but the enemy is too, it is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is AR makes each bullet do double (2X) damage, and Heightened AR makes each bullet do 2.4X damage. As soon as anybody says "but your attack speed is lowered during AR" your forgetting that time is relative. In the only time that matters, the games time, your DPS is increased significantly.

Of course, it is true that in real life time you get less shots off while game time is slowed down, but the damage increase compensates for that along with nifty bonuses like increased aiming capability, faster reloading bonus, and increased movement speed. Another way to illustrate this point is to say imagine the game time was doubled. You would attack twice as fast but each bullet only does half damage. Your DPS would actually go down because even with increased attack speed, the game time has also increased (enemies attack speed too) which means that your doing half the damage your doing per second in regular time.

Bottom line is, AR increases damage, there is no relevant reduction in DPS in game terms. TO apply real life time to the game, is to not understand relativity.

[ArchLord James]

All this talk about getting less shots off in real time is completely stupid and irrelevant. Basic physics; time and motion is relative. That means if your getting less shots of in real time but the enemy is too, it is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is AR makes each bullet do double (2X) damage, and Heightened AR makes each bullet do 2.4X damage. As soon as anybody says "but your attack speed is lowered during AR" your forgetting that time is relative. In the only time that matters, the games time, your DPS is increased significantly.

Of course, it is true that in real life time you get less shots off while game time is slowed down, but the damage increase compensates for that along with nifty bonuses like increased aiming capability, faster reloading bonus, and increased movement speed. Another way to illustrate this point is to say imagine the game time was doubled. You would attack twice as fast but each bullet only does half damage. Your DPS would actually go down because even with increased attack speed, the game time has also increased (enemies attack speed too) which means that your doing half the damage your doing per second in regular time.

Bottom line is, AR increases damage, there is no relevant reduction in DPS in game terms. TO apply real life time to the game, is to not understand relativity.

[ryoldschool]

^ yeah, we know. This thread is two years old.

[capn233]

I find firing half the bullets with the same effectiveness very nice from an ammo efficiency point of view. One of the nice features of Soldier in fact.

Sorry, couldn't help but reply, even if this thread was necro'd.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Well, the thing is, with ARush, you'll usually be firing with greater effectiveness (more headshots, for an additional 2x damage) than in Normal time, so the practical benefit of the power is pretty immense.

Hopefully this settles the "debate".