98 réponses à ce sujet

[Intelwolves]

Hell, all you have to do is put one of them nuke or nova bombs in a captured geth ship fly the thing up next to a Reaper feet and set it off. At best you wipe a few dozens out. At worst you just make a huge emp bomb and then do a quick strike and get the heck out of there. Before they get themselves back on line.

Best way to knock out a computer is to knock out the power. The best way to shut all hte lights off in a given area at once. Hit the area with a emp strike. By the way, a emp is given off my any nuclear weapon. Rradiation in beams, that may work, but it will fade over distance. Also the power required to do that is off the chats high. best you can do is a newton lock magnetic denotation space mine. Place a few around jump mass relays.

If a ship that dose not have the right IFF (identification, friend or foe). They go active and seek and destroy targets at will, basically a space minefield. Also, the codes for the right IFF can be changed at will and a pond activation a signal is send to the main local FOB to alert them on the attack in their sector, but I think we will have to think way out side the box. to win this finale battle or to at lest go out is the biggest bang as we can.

[Randy1012]

Kileyan wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

when in doubt, nuke it.

From orbit

It's the only way to be sure.

[flatlander five]

I don't know - regardless of how a nuke performs in space - a lot of people seem to be missing a bigger point. We're talking about an interstellar civilization - one that has mastered FTL travel.



Me thinks that nukes are obsolete; more bang for the buck can be achieved through others means.

[GnusmasTHX]

Everyone has nukes.

[Railstay]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

...I thought of an easy solutions to several problems of the ME universe.

Just sayin if a kinetic barrier can't stand up to more then a few bullets, or the Cain (which is not a nuke) then I'm pretty sure a volley of 200 Megaton "star-in-a-cans" would do some work against a Reaper.

If a Geth can be overloaded by what is essentially a glowing orange calculator watch (which everyone can afford, apparently), then a few EMPs in orbit should shut down entire platoons.

I think Mass Accelerators made those obsolete, at least in space warfare.

Modifié par Railstay, 09 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[SharpEdgeSoda]

Railstay wrote...

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

...I thought of an easy solutions to several problems of the ME universe.

Just sayin if a kinetic barrier can't stand up to more then a few bullets, or the Cain (which is not a nuke) then I'm pretty sure a volley of 200 Megaton "star-in-a-cans" would do some work against a Reaper.

If a Geth can be overloaded by what is essentially a glowing orange calculator watch (which everyone can afford, apparently), then a few EMPs in orbit should shut down entire platoons.

If you read the codex on the CAIN, it's actually not a nuke.  No atoms are being split. 

[Intelwolves]

In theory a nuke going off in outer space would or could likely cause more damage to a body and electrical equipment or gear at greater distances from the point of detonation. The "EMP" or a EMPS (EMP strike) would have a larger impacted on a greater area of said space. The zero G or no affecting force is acting on said force other than solar winds and Radiation.

Modifié par Intelwolves, 09 février 2010 - 04:09 .

[adam_grif]

Since everybody seems to be confusing each other, here is an analysis on nuclear weapons in space:


Everest class dreadnoughts impact with the energy equivelant to a 38 kilotonne bomb, and although the one dropped on Hiroshima was 16KT or so, that was one of the first bombs ever.

The most common warhead in the US nuclear arsenal is 475 KT, which is more than 10x more powerful than the main gun of a human alliance dreadnought. They have no problems making them bigger, it's just that we don't have any need. The largest nuclear device every built or detonated was the Tsar bomba, which had a yield of 57,000 KT.

Realities dictate that the full yield won't be striking the enemy hull, because the energy is released in a sphere (so unless it detoantes inside the hull, more than half of the energy is wasted. But that's still more than 5x more powerful in real terms, for a commonplace nuke detonating within a few hundred meters of a reaper. It doesn't even have to make contact, it just has to get near it.

Mass Effect barriers only prevent things with kinetic energy from striking, and are explicitly stated not to do anything to protect from radiation. The hull of a reaper clearly isn't anything special, since as soon as the shields went down on Sovereign, the normandy, a frigate one shotted the hull with a missile.

Nuclear devices detonated in space do not produce EMP or a blast, they produce a concentrated burst of X-ray radiation. The reason this happens is because EMP is produced by interaction with the magnetosphere (which isn't in space), and the blast is caused by the X-rays superheating the air, which then expands to form a shockwave.

Instead of this, the X-rays bombard the enemy ship directly, and cause the outer hull to super-heat and explode. If it doesn't destroy the ship instantly, it will at least severely cripple it, and every crewmember on board will be dead from ultra-high radiation exposure.

The idea that nukes don't work for space war is ludicrous to say the least, given that they ignore shields, and that missiles are already used for disruptor torpedoes. Instead of a ME core creating unstable mass effect fields, just get to within a few hundred meters of the enemy hull and burst with a 500kt warhead. Bam, dreadnought eliminated for the cost of a single nuke (which is very cheap when you mass produce them).

Modifié par adam_grif, 09 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[Giantevilhead]

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

[adam_grif]

Giantevilhead wrote...

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

Excuse me, but:

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")


Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields
projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small
objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from
bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to
sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Take note of the last sentance. This is a codex entry.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

adam_grif wrote...

Since everybody seems to be confusing each other, here is an analysis on nuclear weapons in space:


Everest class dreadnoughts impact with the energy equivelant to a 38 kilotonne bomb, and although the one dropped on Hiroshima was 16KT or so, that was one of the first bombs ever.

The most common warhead in the US nuclear arsenal is 475 KT, which is more than 10x more powerful than the main gun of a human alliance dreadnought. They have no problems making them bigger, it's just that we don't have any need. The largest nuclear device every built or detonated was the Tsar bomba, which had a yield of 57,000 KT.

Realities dictate that the full yield won't be striking the enemy hull, because the energy is released in a sphere (so unless it detoantes inside the hull, more than half of the energy is wasted. But that's still more than 5x more powerful in real terms, for a commonplace nuke detonating within a few hundred meters of a reaper. It doesn't even have to make contact, it just has to get near it.

Mass Effect barriers only prevent things with kinetic energy from striking, and are explicitly stated not to do anything to protect from radiation. The hull of a reaper clearly isn't anything special, since as soon as the shields went down on Sovereign, the normandy, a frigate one shotted the hull with a missile.

Nuclear devices detonated in space do not produce EMP or a blast, they produce a concentrated burst of X-ray radiation. The reason this happens is because EMP is produced by interaction with the magnetosphere (which isn't in space), and the blast is caused by the X-rays superheating the air, which then expands to form a shockwave.

Instead of this, the X-rays bombard the enemy ship directly, and cause the outer hull to super-heat and explode. If it doesn't destroy the ship instantly, it will at least severely cripple it, and every crewmember on board will be dead from ultra-high radiation exposure.

The idea that nukes don't work for space war is ludicrous to say the least, given that they ignore shields, and that missiles are already used for disruptor torpedoes. Instead of a ME core creating unstable mass effect fields, just get to within a few hundred meters of the enemy hull and burst with a 500kt warhead. Bam, dreadnought eliminated for the cost of a single nuke (which is very cheap when you mass produce them).

My faith in nuclear annihilation is restored!

Seriously, (I thought the Tsar was only a 100 kt, not 57,000 ) I think the council would make an exeption and allow us to scorch those squids, and if not, I say humanity says "Ef YOU GUYS!" and hits the red button.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

I mean, I refuse to believe that so many sci-fi tales I have read would use nukes, if they were as useless people here made it seem.

Modifié par SharpEdgeSoda, 09 février 2010 - 04:27 .

[magicalpoop]

Um I think ME2 gave it away. The reapers/Geth are trying to shut down suns or possibly create blackholes.



Shutting down a sun or advancing it to the dwarf stage would have dire implications on any system.

[Giantevilhead]

adam_grif wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

Excuse me, but:

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")


Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields
projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small
objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from
bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to
sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Take note of the last sentance. This is a codex entry.

But the the principle behind the shields allows for it to protect people from a much greater range of effects, including temperature, toxins, and radiation. It's just a matter of altering the parameters of the field.

If the shields can deflect bullets then it can obviously deflect other things like chairs or air or photons. Otherwise how else did shields protect you from the radiation on Haestrom and the 73 degree surface temperature of Tuchanka?

Modifié par Giantevilhead, 09 février 2010 - 04:30 .

[SunfighterG8]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

I mean, I refuse to believe that so many sci-fi tales I have read would use nukes, if they were as useless people here made it seem.

Humans avoid talking about the usefulness of nukes because those types of weapons scare them. The reason why Kinetic weapons are more useful in space then nuclear weapons are that the kinetic shot would have a vastly greater range. Nukes would only be useful in a concentrated space battle.

[SunfighterG8]

Giantevilhead wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

Excuse me, but:

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")


Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields
projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small
objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from
bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to
sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Take note of the last sentance. This is a codex entry.

But the the principle behind the shields allows for it to protect people from a much greater range of effects, including temperature, toxins, and radiation. It's just a matter of altering the parameters of the field.

If the shields can deflect bullets then it can obviously deflect other things like chairs or air or photons. Otherwise how else did shields protect you from the radiation on Haestrom and the 73 degree surface temperature of Tuchanka?

You do realize they have armor on right? They arnt just running around in boxers with shields..

[adam_grif]

Video of the Tsar Bomba gloriously detonating, all 57 megatonnes of it. The mushroom cloud was 63 kilometers high.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

Giantevilhead wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

Excuse me, but:

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")


Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields
projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small
objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from
bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to
sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Take note of the last sentance. This is a codex entry.

But the the principle behind the shields allows for it to protect people from a much greater range of effects, including temperature, toxins, and radiation. It's just a matter of altering the parameters of the field.

If the shields can deflect bullets then it can obviously deflect other things like chairs or air or photons. Otherwise how else did shields protect you from the radiation on Haestrom and the 73 degree surface temperature of Tuchanka?

The fact that the radiation "messes with your shields" as they put it is an obvious sign of shield vulnerability to radiation. That wasn't nuclear bomb grade radiation hitting your shields, just...get a tan REALLY FAST radiation hitting your shields, and that makes em go down in seconds.

Now, a nuclear explosion would get rid of everything but the tan line your shadow left on the ground.

[adam_grif]

SunfighterG8 wrote...

You do realize they have armor on right? They arnt just running around in boxers with shields..

Except Miranda in her space-**** outfit.


The thing to remember is that gameplay mechanics aren't necessarily canon. Otherwise we'd be forced to conclude that Commander Shepard in ME1 carried around 14 suits of armor, 32 assault rifles and over a hundred different weapon mods with him at all times. Or that the good comander can really make people recover from bullet wounds by using the power of friendship (aka Unity).

Even the cutscnes aren't consistant - the MEverse isn't supposed to use missiles except for disruptor torps, but in the final cutscene against Sovereign in ME, we have dreadnought main guns firing missiles of all things! And they move at ludicrously slow speeds, and don't accelerate, even though they have constant thrust from their drives.

[adam_grif]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

The fact that the radiation "messes with your shields" as they put it is an obvious sign of shield vulnerability to radiation. That wasn't nuclear bomb grade radiation hitting your shields, just...get a tan REALLY FAST radiation hitting your shields, and that makes em go down in seconds.

Now, a nuclear explosion would get rid of everything but the tan line your shadow left on the ground.

The radiation was "frying your shields " according to Jacob, but given that the codex entry say they ignore them the most obvious solution is that the shield emmiters (which are all over your armor) were getting burned out or heated to the point where they started failing by the radiation from the sun.

[Giantevilhead]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

Mass effect fields protect against radiation. Look at what happened on Haestrom. If their shields didn't work, they'd be fried.

Excuse me, but:

Kinetic Barriers ("Shields")


Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.
Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields
projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small
objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from
bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to
sit down without knocking away their chair.
The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Take note of the last sentance. This is a codex entry.

But the the principle behind the shields allows for it to protect people from a much greater range of effects, including temperature, toxins, and radiation. It's just a matter of altering the parameters of the field.

If the shields can deflect bullets then it can obviously deflect other things like chairs or air or photons. Otherwise how else did shields protect you from the radiation on Haestrom and the 73 degree surface temperature of Tuchanka?

The fact that the radiation "messes with your shields" as they put it is an obvious sign of shield vulnerability to radiation. That wasn't nuclear bomb grade radiation hitting your shields, just...get a tan REALLY FAST radiation hitting your shields, and that makes em go down in seconds.

Now, a nuclear explosion would get rid of everything but the tan line your shadow left on the ground.

The radiation vaporized a bug the size of your hand in about two seconds.

Also, personal shields are obviously not going to be nearly as powerful as ship shields.

Nuclear bombs are not like conventional explosives. They don't detonate on impact. It takes time for the bomb to arm and trigger the fission/fusion process. They're not going to impact on hull or shields. They'll have to be detonated far away from the ship. Even if the explosion is shaped, only a fraction of the nuclear weapon's force will hit an enemy ship if you want to ensure that the weapon is detonated at all.

[ERJAK2]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

why are nukes "too slow"

why cant they be launched from a mass accellerator

The acceleration would pre-fuse/fission the molecules and it would explode in the barrel(which would have the devestatng effect you'd expect from a nuke in that situation) Either that or the shell would impact in normal ME shell style and the resources needed to make the nuke would have been wasted.

Modifié par ERJAK2, 09 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[jerms510]

haestrom's solar radiation was frying all the electronics (the quarian dude mentioned he had a missile launcher that the "sun hadn't fried yet"). said radiation wasn't apparently messing with any of the ships in the area.

the projectiles fired from the ships move slowly because of the mass effect fields being charged to give the projectiles vastly increased mass, in order to penetrate the kinetic barriers.

Modifié par jerms510, 09 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[Whereto]

well thing about the radiation your going to get when those ships fall into a planets atmosphere.And besides you would have to get through the kinetic barriers of a reaper to get the a bomb into it which would have to be done with kinetic energy but if you could get into the reaper the ship wont last more that 2 sec aftr it goes off

[Giantevilhead]

adam_grif wrote...

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

The fact that the radiation "messes with your shields" as they put it is an obvious sign of shield vulnerability to radiation. That wasn't nuclear bomb grade radiation hitting your shields, just...get a tan REALLY FAST radiation hitting your shields, and that makes em go down in seconds.

Now, a nuclear explosion would get rid of everything but the tan line your shadow left on the ground.

The radiation was "frying your shields " according to Jacob, but given that the codex entry say they ignore them the most obvious solution is that the shield emmiters (which are all over your armor) were getting burned out or heated to the point where they started failing by the radiation from the sun.

Then how come your health is fine until the shields failed?

Also, if the problem was heat then being in a little bit of shade wouldn't have made a big difference.