146 réponses à ce sujet

[Kriztophr]

confidence in their brand's value and the perceived quality of their products can have a cost as well.

that's for Bioware and EA to decide

Modifié par Kriztophr, 09 février 2010 - 10:10 .

[Tails88]

Jesse Houston wrote...

Tails88 : I will absolutely look into the GOTY Edition. However, as a new version of the game would mean re-certification with Microsoft (something you can't actually do on Xbox once a game is released), we'll be asking for something that's never been done before. That doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means that I can't make any promises.

There have been some offline questions as to the technical difficulties involved. Basically, the technical reason is that Xbox doesn't guarantee that you have a hard drive, therefor there is a very very limited patch size supported, which is less then 4 megs as mandated by Microsoft Certification (the group that decides if we can ship a game on Xbox360 or not). Now imagine we've got a 12-18 gig game (depending on locale) and patching all that content with only 4 megs of data is VERY difficult, especially if you think that the text alone (not the font's mind you) of our game are well over that 4 meg limit. The menus alone are well over 100 megs.

Edit:  Of the two prototypes we made, the first didn't work and cut off the text, the second didn't fit into the patch limit.

I hope that paints a good picture of how hard this actually is to change.

-Jess

Thank you very much for this answer. Now this is communication, I really appreciate it. Really, thank you.
You were very clear... to put it simply, it's Microsoft's fault (not because there is the patch limit -there are people without HDD, after all- but because there are Xbox 360s without HDD. The Arcade edition shouldn't exist.... but I'm going off-topic)



Just one question...

"I will absolutely look into the GOTY Edition. However, as a new version
of the game would mean re-certification with Microsoft (something you
can't actually do on Xbox once a game is released),"

I didn't understand this point. There are many GOTY Editions out there, the Oblivion GOTY does include several patches if I'm not mistaken..... didn't they have to re-certificate the game with Microsoft as well?
Couldn't you simply do the same as Oblivion GOTY with Mass Effect 2?

Modifié par Tails88, 09 février 2010 - 10:17 .

[TraverserXR]

alright, i gotta be honest, i dont know why people are complaining about the text size, i have to wear glasses to read books and im fine without them in this game.

[WarlockSoL]

Tails88 wrote...

I didn't understand this point. There are many GOTY Editions out there, the Oblivion GOTY does include several patches if I'm not mistaken..... didn't they have to re-certificate the game with Microsoft as well?
Couldn't you simply do the same as Oblivion GOTY with Mass Effect 2?

I don't think it works that way.  Including patches (and DLC) in a GOTY is fine because the patches have already been certified previously.  You are just offering what is already available.  Including a UNIQUE patch that is ONLY available in the GOTY version means you are essentially putting something new in there.  Thus it has to be re-certified. 

To use a hypothetical example, imagine if a GOTY included a new patch which had a bug that erased your entire Xbox 360 hard drive.  That would be really bad.  If Microsoft didn't re-certify that, they'd be in trouble.  They have these procedures in place for a reason

Keep in mind, this is all just my assumption.  I don't actually know what's involved, but this seems logical to me anyways

Modifié par WarlockSoL, 09 février 2010 - 10:57 .

[Jesse Houston]

Tails88 - As far as I know, the Oblivion GOTY Edition only shipped with the SI and Ko9 DLC packs not with any code changes. I could be wrong but like I said I'm going to look into it.

[Jesse Houston]

WarlockSoL wrote...

To use a hypothetical example, imagine if a GOTY included a new patch which had a bug that erased your entire Xbox 360 hard drive.  That would be really bad.  If Microsoft didn't re-certify that, they'd be in trouble.  They have these procedures in place for a reason

QFT 

[Tails88]

Jesse Houston wrote...

Tails88 - As far as I know, the Oblivion GOTY Edition only shipped with the SI and Ko9 DLC packs not with any code changes. I could be wrong but like I said I'm going to look into it.

Oh.... maybe I'm confusing with Morrowind GOTY sorry.

I don't think it works that way.  Including patches (and DLC) in a
GOTY is fine because the patches have already been certified
previously.  You are just offering what is already available. 
Including a UNIQUE patch that is ONLY available in the GOTY version
means you are essentially putting something new in there.  Thus it has
to be re-certified. 

To use a hypothetical example, imagine if
a GOTY included a new patch which had a bug that erased your
entire Xbox 360 hard drive.  That would be really bad.  If Microsoft
didn't re-certify that, they'd be in trouble.  They have these
procedures in place for a reason

You're right!

QFT 

...

....what?

[My Squid]

WarlockSoL wrote...

To use a hypothetical example, imagine if a GOTY included a new patch which had a bug that erased your entire Xbox 360 hard drive.

And because of this, BioWare will have to issue a recall to replace each of the discs, then they'll sell off a bunch of stock to Take 2 to cover the costs of the recall. Then BioWare will start on a new IP, wich Microsoft will want and buy out BioWare. Unfortunately, since Take 2 now owns a large stake in BioWare, and takes several of BioWare's IPs (including Mass Effect) in trade. So a different company would then develope Mass Effect 3. It won't be a bad game, per se, but it won't live up to the fans expectations of the franchise. It's already happened, just ask Bungie about Myth.

Bungie    Myth
BioWare Mass Efftect

Coincidence? Probably.
But let's not take that chance.

[Spell Singer]

Tails88 wrote...

This is right, with the Advanced AV Cable the image is much clearer. In fact, I've played ME2 (for something like an hour, maybe less) thanks to this RGB cable. The text is still too small, so I have to put my head  very very near to the screen to be able to read something (and doing so, my eyes hurt after a couple of minutes)... but if I can see the letters, when I stand near the TV, is thanks to this RGB cable. I would see nothing more than an orange mess otherwise.

One other thing I had to do was adjust the ingame brightness to +2 and +3 would be better but since it is supposed to be a dark game I figured I would go for the minimum value to see the "N" in N7.  But on +0 the N was invisible.

The text size is such that I can see it on my TV at 2m (pretty much the extent of the battery pack recharge cable) and read it without any serious problems and those that I have are due to my eyes not the game.  But this may depend on the size of my screen as well (I don't have a large TV or anything I'd guess its pretty much a normal size say 26" or a bit larger).

I am glad the cable helped though.  My memory is that it was night and day insofar as visual quality was concerned as well as fixing ME's text so I could read it.

[sunnyengland]

confidence in their brand's value and the perceived quality of their products can have a cost as well

Yep for sure. Problems like this bring into question the thoroughness of the testing process used during development. If it was tested on a range of systems, this would have been highlighted and im sure then, the design choice wouldn't have been the same.



GOTY editions dont help people now, and have all ready bought it.

WarlockSoL wrote...



Hey, why not offer it as a free Cerberus Network DLC update instead of a patch? Wouldn't that get around Microsoft's stringent limits?

could this be done? is there a limit on the Cerberus Network update?

[WarlockSoL]

sunnyengland wrote...

could this be done? is there a limit on the Cerberus Network update?

Zaeed was something like 100 megs I think, which is quite a bit larger than "4 megs" 

[Jesse Houston]

There is a substantially larger limit on DLC content, but DLC content can't patch existing content, it needs to 'plug in' essentially.

[WarlockSoL]

Jesse Houston wrote...

There is a substantially larger limit on DLC content, but DLC content can't patch existing content, it needs to 'plug in' essentially.

Aw, that's a shame. 

So yeah, that's crazy then.  4 mb is a pretty sad limit to work with   

[Disassemble]

Jesse Houston wrote...

There is a substantially larger limit on DLC content, but DLC content can't patch existing content, it needs to 'plug in' essentially.

From:
http://social.biowar...5/index/1102656

Dusty Everman wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...
Kellygrrl is quite insistent about that message in your inbox.

Yeah, that's a bug.  It'll be fixed in a future DLC.  She's only supposed to send it once. 

According to Dusty Everman, you can patch existing content using DLC content. How is text size different?

I am not trying to be rude or contrary. This just struck me as odd.

Modifié par Disassemble, 10 février 2010 - 08:29 .

[Tails88]

@ Jesse Houston: Just wondering, fixing the text requires a patch bigger than 4MB, right?

Maybe you've already tried this, but what about putting all the text (in codex, in the dialog wheel, weapon-armor descriptions etc.) in bold. Should fix things a little, and maybe fits in the patch limit.

[Tails88]

Celrath wrote...

Tails88 wrote...

@ Jesse Houston: Just wondering, fixing the text requires a patch bigger than 4MB, right?
Maybe you've already tried this, but what about putting all the text (in codex, in the dialog wheel, weapon-armor descriptions etc.) in bold. Should fix things a little, and maybe fits in the patch limit.

I don't think it works that way. If it was simply a change the font type/size or make it bold it would have been an quick fix. And I'm sure that would have been the first thing they thought of. 

I think you're right. But a man can always hope

[Darth Drago]

At least I now know that something has been attempted and my ME2 gripes topic about the text issues were valid. Despite all the personal attacks I’ve gotten over it. I had no problems reading the text in ME1 but the game gives me a headache from trying to read anything in ME2.

I do hope that it can be fixed, especially since this seems to be a big issue.

However, what bothers me about this most is why wasn’t there any kind of option in the game to choose between HDTV or standard TV? Contrary to popular belief, not everyone has or is interested in getting a HDTV. My standard TV works perfectly enough that to spend money replacing something that works just is a waste of my money (if I had any to spend) just to play a game.

Another question, why isn’t there any kind of statement on the packaging stating a HDTV is suggested for playing this game?

[BloPant]

to be fair the game box does state "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p"



the problem is so do most other games.

[Darth Drago]

BloPant wrote...

to be fair the game box does state "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p"

the problem is so do most other games.

In small print on the back, but it doesn’t say something like “this game may not be compatible on non HDTV’s”.

ME1 has exactly the same listed and as I’ve stated to many times since I started posting here a week ago, I had no problem with the text in that game.

I wonder just how many games out there have this problem?

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Hmm...I haven't played ME2 on a SDTV, but on my Samsung 32" 720p HDTV everything, including text, is fine. I can read every word and the text is quite a bit sharper than in Mass Effect 1, which I think had large text in comparison that wasn't nearly as sharp.



I think it's important to understand that these games are designed to be played in high resolutions. If you are playing any game in 480i/p that was designed to be played in 720p or higher, you are going to encounter problems.

[Gemini1986]

Yes but what happened to games being made so that they look great in both High and Standard resolutions? I have a standard def television, and all my games excluding this and street fighter, all look great on standard definition; Then when I play on my friends HDtv they all look amazing on there. Sure, it might take a little more effort to make sure that it look respectable on both but I'm sure that the people playing them really appreciate the effort. I don't know when topics of discussion like this come up when designing a game but I'd hope that it's still more often then not.

[Disassemble]

I would just like a clarification as to why it cannot be fixed. According to Jesse Houston it can't, but Dusty Everman makes it cound as though it can.