36 réponses à ce sujet

[RamsenC]

I was told to move this thread, so here it is. This is probably my last version until I figure out how to make recoil work the way I want.

note: The shotgun damage is actually per pellet and each shotgun shoots 4 pellets. I will list the damage as if all 4 pellets hit to avoid confusion.

Shotgun changes:

Old Katana 
Damage 110 
Mag/Max 5/10
Refire 1s

New Katana: Standard shotgun, high damage, slow fire rate, ammo efficient.
Damage 150
Mag/Max 5/15
Refire 1s
---------------------
Old Scimitar
Damage 81
Mag/Max 8/16
Refire 0.6s

New Scimitar: High rate of fire, good damage over time, lots of ammo.
Damage 75
Mag/Max 8/24
Refire 0.4s
---------------------
Old Claymore
Damage 200
Mag/Max 1/10
Refire N/A (1.5s reload time)

New Claymore: High burst damage. Fires 2 rounds in quick succession before needing to reload, but its still possible to fire one round if preferred. Best follow up to a biotic charge.
Damage 175
Mag/Max 2/20
Refire VERY FAST

If you want to try these changes get my Coalesced.ini and replace yours:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mmlmzyzjhvo

Coalesced.ini should be in the folder located at: 
mass effect 2 > BioGame > Config > PC > Cooked

Be sure to keep a backup of your Coalesced.ini in case you don't like the changes.

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[RamsenC]

 I still would like to have the Claymore recoil pop up around 1 inch after each shot but I can't get it to happen. If anyone (like a dev ) can tell me how to change recoil correctly that would be great. The following are all the recoil values from the ini.

Recoil=(X=2,Y=2)
ZoomRecoil=(X=1,y=1)
RecoilInterpSpeed=10.f
RecoilFadeSpeed=0.88f
RecoilZoomFadeSpeed=0.95f
RecoilCap=10.0f
ZoomRecoilCap=10.0f
RecoilMinFadePitch=0.0f
RecoilMinFadeYaw=0.0f
RecoilYawScale=0.05f
RecoilYawBias=0.0f
RecoilYawFrequency=4.0f
RecoilPitchFrequncy=3.0f
RecoilPitchOscillation=0.0f

Yaw seems to effect recoil to the left and right, so I'm assuming pitch is up and down. However, I can only get the yaw recoil to work, but having your gun move to the left or right after firing seems awkward.

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 février 2010 - 02:00 .

[RamsenC]

Bumping this for the last time in case anyone else wants it. The addition of the Eviscerator seems to be BioWare's way of rebalancing the shotguns so I'll probably stop working on this. My Katana is essentially a faster shooting Evis, but without the nice armor penetration, which is too redundant. The Evis also makes the Claymore less of an appealing choice sadly, but it still has its place.

I still think the default shotguns need to be stronger relative to other guns at close range. The main issue is ARs and SMGs get the double damage boost at close range, but that should be shotgun exclusive really. I don't want to go around nerfing every other gun though

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 02:20 .

[Kronner]

No offesne, but shotguns are powerful enough, no need to add any more damage to them. Claymore with 2 rounds is way too OP.

Evi is nice, thats for sure.

[RamsenC]

Shotguns ARE powerful enough to beat the game with. What they are not is balanced against the rest of the guns. I beat insanity with Vanguard just using the default shotguns so it being possible is not the issue. The point is theres too many guns that compete with or beat shotguns at close range and the Claymore simply isn't worth the sacrifice compared to the Window for example. The Evi makes this even more true.

I could have just nerfed the AR and SMG damage multiplier at close range, but who will download the "All Guns But Shotguns Nerfed Mod v1.4".

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 12:14 .

[GCreature]

What sort of damage difference is there between the un-moded shotgun an AR/SMG at close range?

[RamsenC]

This is how much damage each gun does in separate points in a short time line. I did not include ammo bonuses or upgrades since they balance each other out. I did not bother including the Katana since its the worst shotgun.

Hand Cannon
85.4 in 0s
170.8 in 0.41s
256.2 in 0.82s
341.6 in 1.23s
427 in 1.64s
512.4 in 2.05s

Shuriken (must pulse fire)
225.5 0-1s
471.5 1-2s

Vindicator 
111 in 0.2s
222 in 1.025s
333 in 1.85s
444 in 2.675s

Scimitar
81 in 0s
162 in 0.6s
243 in 1.2s
324 in 1.8s
405 in 2.4s

Evi
147.2 0s
294.4 1.25s
441.6 2.5s

Claymore
200 in 0s
400 in 1.5s
600 in 3s

As you can see the Hand Cannon and Shuriken SMG are insane, but you can't really dance around your target as well as other weapons. Lots of DPS for both balances that out though. Shuriken is also lacking in burst damage, but the Hand Cannon does not have that problem. I generally only use the Hand Cannon on high armor enemies.

The Scimitar and Vindicator are actually pretty close in effectiveness. The best way to use these guns is to melee after each shot, making the delay between shot a non issue. Most enemies will die in one shot-melee-shot cycle. For the Evi you can throw two melees between shots, but most of the time you won't even need that. The Vindicator is also a deadly accurate AR on top of all that though.

The problem with the Claymore is you can't throw melees in as easily. If you want your gun to reload you have to melee 60% into the reload. If you melee too early you won't reload. If you did not one shot your enemy or are fighting two enemies at once you are better off with the Scimitar or Evi. The Claymore is hardly the Widow equivalent to the shotgun, so I made it better. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[_Dannok1234]

You took the Shuriken a bit far there though, after 2 seconds you have to have a 1.5 second reload, and the claymore still has 2 full seconds between each shot, not 1.5. At least on my pc, as it takes 0.5 seconds before the recoil animation is done and you can start to reload.

[RamsenC]

Dannok1234 wrote...

You took the Shuriken a bit far there though, after 2 seconds you have to have a 1.5 second reload, and the claymore still has 2 full seconds between each shot, not 1.5. At least on my pc, as it takes 0.5 seconds before the recoil animation is done and you can start to reload.

I probably went half a second too far on the Shuriken, but I went to three for consistency. For the Claymore I'm not 100% sure, but if thats the case than its even worse than I thought. Doesn't really change my point though.

edit: Took out the third second for Shuriken

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[_Dannok1234]

Nope it just makes it worse. But thats good to point out I thought.

[RamsenC]

Luckily I went with ARs this time around on my Vanguard. I would love the Claymore if you could melee while reloading like you can in Left4Dead, although it doesn't really make sense.

[Kronner]

btw, shouldn't Claymore do 400 damage in one shot from melee range? (4 pellets * 50 damage per pellet * 2 for melee range ?)

[Ackillez]

Kronner wrote...

btw, shouldn't Claymore do 400 damage in one shot from melee range? (4 pellets * 50 damage per pellet * 2 for melee range ?)

That's true, but all other guns except sniper rifles also get double damage at point blank. This should probably be remedied, because as the OP has pointed out, the end result is that the longer-range guns become too powerful up close compared to the shotgun.

[RamsenC]

I did not add the double damage at close range multiplier since all guns I've listed get that bonus anyways.



The ultimate solution would be lowering the AR and SMG multiplier at close range to ~50%, but as I said I didn't want to make a mod that nerfed guns.

[SILVERFURY0093]

RamsenC wrote...

I did not add the double damage at close range multiplier since all guns I've listed get that bonus anyways.

The ultimate solution would be lowering the AR and SMG multiplier at close range to ~50%, but as I said I didn't want to make a mod that nerfed guns.

well if you do plan to balance the guns more the AR point blank damage should change to AP or SP bonus cause if you applied look at the fire animation, all shot go in a straight line so if you applied realism into each shot. Each thermal round after leaving would cool down after leaving the barrel so the AR should get a reduction to SP,AP,DP by a few points from firing at a long distance. the shotgun itself is petty much balance at close range by itself. And your allies need at least one powerful gun to use in combat anyway. The claymore could use some more twicking to recoil like you say RamsenC for realism. and the hand cannon is a heavy pistol not a smg. the Shuriken itself is more of a personal choice. low damage for longer range and better recoil than the tempest. the tempest is more damage and ammo and meant more for close encounters. i do agree that the Shuriken could get a burst bonus but it should be gain when doing headshot on unarmor and unshielded threats to make the gun a hs smg, giving it its own source of advantage. sniper are fine so nothing needs to change from them. the pistols already offer two choice preference. one for rapid yet weak pistol or the slow yet powerful pistol. the point blank multipler should be reduce for the SMG or AR but not to 50 but to 30 so players will be more adept to using the weapons to their design performance. because of the shotgun simulating four pellet hit, it should get a bonus to dp if all four hits. that way if you add the point blank bonus it can be consider an instance kill on most weak enemies, even if they have one layer of protection. at the same time it could be consider deadly to use in combat if your overwhelm by the enemy. 

[thisisme8]

RamsenC wrote...

I could have just nerfed the AR and SMG damage multiplier at close range, but who will download the "All Guns But Shotguns Nerfed Mod v1.4".

Especially since it's a single player game.

[Christina Norman]

RamsenC wrote...

note: The shotgun damage is actually per pellet and each shotgun shoots 4 pellets. I will list the damage as if all 4 pellets hit to avoid confusion.

'

The danger of parsing INI files....

Shotguns actually fire 8 pellets. We only render 4 impacts for performance reasons, but it's 8, not 4!

[rumination888]

Christina Norman wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

note: The shotgun damage is actually per pellet and each shotgun shoots 4 pellets. I will list the damage as if all 4 pellets hit to avoid confusion.

'

The danger of parsing INI files....

Shotguns actually fire 8 pellets. We only render 4 impacts for performance reasons, but it's 8, not 4!

I KNEW IT. Not the exact number, but I knew it was more than 4. I always wondered if I was playing a different game since my Scimitar completely owns the Vindicator up close. If the data that people obtained were true then the Vindicator would do more damage than the Scimitar. I knew there had to be something more than what the ini file or the graphics of the game shows us.

[Grand_Commander13]

Christina Norman wrote...

The danger of parsing INI files....

Shotguns actually fire 8 pellets. We only render 4 impacts for performance reasons, but it's 8, not 4!

I...  I find this quite scary.  Their raw damage numbers didn't seem that bad at four pellets. 

What would be the chance of a patch that shined some light on weapon stats?  I mean rough RoF and damage figures and the exact multipliers against shields, armor, and barriers rather than "good against shields but bad against armor"?

[Blue_dodo]

shotguns do enough damage..why does the damage need to increase ? I only think that the ammo should be changed

[RamsenC]

Christina Norman wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

note: The shotgun damage is actually per pellet and each shotgun shoots 4 pellets. I will list the damage as if all 4 pellets hit to avoid confusion.

'

The danger of parsing INI files....

Shotguns actually fire 8 pellets. We only render 4 impacts for performance reasons, but it's 8, not 4!

Haha really? I wish I knew this earlier. I must be missing some of those invisible pellets,because it doesn't feel like 8 pellets at all. I'm gonna throw myself into a ditch.  

[matt654321]

Hoo boy, that changes a lot of things now doesn't it? Sorry OP.

[RamsenC]

I appreciate the dev responses shedding some light on the game mechanics. Theres no real reason for me to know, but I want to know.

This is probably pointless now that the Evi is in, but now I want to make a mod that makes all the shotguns more accurate so all 8 pellets will hit, as opposed to raising damage. I'd still keep the Claymore as a double barrel though, its just more fun that way.

Modifié par RamsenC, 11 février 2010 - 01:59 .

[Christina Norman]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

What would be the chance of a patch that shined some light on weapon stats?  I mean rough RoF and damage figures and the exact multipliers against shields, armor, and barriers rather than "good against shields but bad against armor"?

No patch but I will post the actual damage multipliers for all the weapons tomorrow when I'm at work.

[Christina Norman]

You can't alter the accuracy of shotgun spread by editing INI files. Sorry! The data is not in there.