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[Willowhugger]

The Illusive Man will do whatever it takes to make humanity the dominant power in the universe.



He's a xenophobe who has terrorists in his employ.



It's just some of those aliens are REALLY bad (Reapers).

[TuringPoint]

The Illusive Man has some redeeming qualities, he is very single-minded about human survival. In some ways I think he was necessary for the success of the SR2 against the Collector's, with his intelligence network, and just that he pushes humanity forward from behind the scenes in ways most people would never consider. That said, I think he could have been more moral in his approach to doing those things.



But he would dare think that Reaper technology could be studied without getting indoctrinated? That he would have the wisdom to use Reapers, or Rachni, or Geth or Thresher Maws against his enemies? Can you imagine what an indoctrinated Cerberus would do, with their intelligence network and power of wealth, and ability to make starships?



You can't trust Cerberus, or TIM. They don't "keep the faith" well. Do they do some things that turn out well? Sure.



It is awesome that they managed to make EDI. It might be a good idea to use the Collector base, or it might not. I'm willing to bet on the heroic path and stick to destroying it.

[Shock35]

Tahleron1 wrote...

TIM is born straight from "The Prince", I'd have thought it quite obvious, but meh, guess I'm getting old

indeed, TIM isn't so much evil as he is ruthless.

he does have a stated goal about keeping humanity protected and he does keep to it (reguardless of what anyways says) but he is willing to throw people alway as soon as they've done what he wanted and willing to gain more power for Cerberus (and by doing so himself).

[DuffyMJ]

Tahleron1 wrote...

TIM is born straight from "The Prince", I'd have thought it quite obvious, but meh, guess I'm getting old

Well The Prince was written around the same time Thomas Moore was writing... I would definitely say rational, reasonable, good-at-heart people would bemore likely to follow Moore than Machiavelli...

[Society]

The way I see it Shepard is sufficiently awesome to make sure that TIM can't do anything too jacked up with the Reaper base. Hell, he's flying around on a giant stealth death machine with wings now...

[Taritu]

marshalleck wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

I really hope that we get to kill him in ME3, or maybe convince him to sacrifice himself for the TRUE greater good. Would be kind of nice to see the Illusive Man turned even a little bit to the paragon side.

Killing people or forcing them to kill themselves is paragon now?

Convincing, not forcing.  And yes, killing evil people is paragon, as long as you give them a chance to surrender to the law first.

[Gill Kaiser]

Tahleron1 wrote...

TIM is born straight from "The Prince", I'd have thought it quite obvious, but meh, guess I'm getting old

Wow, you must be the only 300 year old person I've ever come across.

[CodeMyster]

Here a paragraph from the book about the Illusive Man.



"Once he had been just like everybody else. He had marveled with the rest of the people on Earth when the Prothean ruins were discovered on Mars. He had watched the vids in amazement when they reported on humanity's first, violent contact with an intelligent alien species. Back then he had been an average man, with an average job and an average life. He had friends and family. He even had a name."

[WilliamShatner]

Anyone who says Cerberus isn't evil hasn't played the original game.



They're future N@zis believing in the superiority of their race and experimenting/exterminating people who do not fit into their world group.



ME2 = Shepard working for N@zis.

[Arrtis]

He wants HUmanity to be Strong.

Cerberus power is humanities power is what TIM says.

If your human hes on yourside...unless you get in the way.

[DuffyMJ]

Know who else wanted humanity to be strong? Hitler.

[Valmy]

Markinator_123 wrote...

I really need to read Ascension, but it seems that most of people I know who has read the book seem convinced that the Illusive man is an evil individual. I never trusted him in the game and he has some morally reprehensible methods. Something tells me that he is more than an extremist.  Nonetheless, do anyone of you agree with this assertion that the TIM is evil?

Remember what Cereberus did to Jack?  Well they are still up to their old tricks in Ascension.

[Valmy]

Arrtis wrote...

He wants HUmanity to be Strong.
Cerberus power is humanities power is what TIM says.
If your human hes on yourside...unless you get in the way.

He treats humans like raw material not as people.

[Abirn]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Know who else wanted humanity to be strong? Hitler.

Know who is the only one that wants to save the galaxy from mass extinction?  Ya that would be TIM

[Jaina Twoseas]

Good and Evil depend on your POV. I for one think he is not evil, he just thinks that the ends justify the means, which i can totally comprehend. The question remains, are his interests only for human or atleast his own benefits, or is he working for a greater power...

[Valmy]

Abirn wrote...
Know who is the only one that wants to save the galaxy from mass extinction?  Ya that would be TIM

I have to admit it was a bit of a shocker that it was Cereberus of all people who realized the threat.

[mopotter]

Kenthen wrote...

I believe that TIM believes himself when he says he's doing what's best for humanity.

I agree and that makes him far more dangerous and yes, evil, to me.

[wulf3n]

I liken TIM to Loghain from DA:O. its not that he's evil, he thinks he's doing whats best for humanity, however his methods are morally questionable and his end goal is still unknown to shepard.

[mopotter]

Arrtis wrote...

He wants HUmanity to be Strong.
Cerberus power is humanities power is what TIM says.
If your human hes on yourside...unless you get in the way.

The scientist said he wouldn't really care about the kids if they got the results.  I belive they were correct.  It says they were going to continue working at the alliance Ascension project, and in the book you find he's having at least one of the kids  drugged to see the results of her powers.  

The survivor  of Akuze,  Corporal Toombs was used as a guinea pig.   

He is evil.  If you say he didn't know, then he's stupid.  And I don't believe he's stupid. 

[Remaix]

My opinion on this is simple:

Is he evil? Yes.

Does he honestly believe he's doing the right thing? Yes.

See,
the thing most people forget when they deal with 'evil', for lack of a
better term, is that... well... most 'evil' people won't see
themselves as evil. They're not harmless comic book villains, or
something like Bowser. TIM most likely believes that what he is doing
is justified.

Does this make him a good person? No. I don't believe, even
with the Reaper threat, that the things he does are needed. I don't see
him as a 'necessary evil'. My personal belief is that it's very much
possible to achieve something good without walking TIM's path.

He think's he's working in humanity's best interests. I think he let go of his humanity to achieve that.

[Gabey5]

he and his agents do some crazy **** in the book

[SurfaceBeneath]

Evil is a dangerous word.



The Illusive Man never lies to you about doing whatever it takes to keep Humanity on top. He'll do everything in his power to wipe out the Reapers as long as they were a danger to humanity. However, I don't doubt for a second he would sacrifice every other sentient life form in the galaxy if it was in humanity's best interests.

[Caz Neerg]

Considering that evil doesn't exist, no, the Illusive Man isn't evil.

DuffyMJ wrote...

Tahleron1 wrote...

TIM is born straight from "The Prince", I'd have thought it quite obvious, but meh, guess I'm getting old

Well The Prince was written around the same time Thomas Moore was writing... I would definitely say rational, reasonable, good-at-heart people would bemore likely to follow Moore than Machiavelli...

Rational and reasonable people would see that from a purely practical standpoint, Machiavelli was right about most things.  If they allow morality to cloud their judgment, they might agree with Moore, but not necessarily, given how many different moral codes exist.

[Big_Lunk]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

I really hope that we get to kill him in ME3, or maybe convince him to sacrifice himself for the TRUE greater good. Would be kind of nice to see the Illusive Man turned even a little bit to the paragon side.

Or force him to live the rest of his life on the Elcor home planet as a dance instructor.

[Freestorm Skinn]

A lot of you are missing that he wants to save Humanity for himself to lord over, and he doesn't care how many humans he'll sacrifice to achieve Humanity's ascension -- with him at the top lording over them.

He's a meglomaniac.  In the books, it's more obvious that he enjoys having power and he enjoys using that power to take revenge on people who cross him.  

Modifié par Freestorm Skinn, 10 février 2010 - 09:48 .