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Ideas for Mass Effect 3/What went wrong with Mass Effect 2


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#1
overseer909

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I just got through playing ME2. While I don't usually post on blogs or forums, after beating ME2 I found some gameplay choices as well as story choices that were poorly executed in my opinion and I had an urge to express my thoughts/ideas to the ME design team as well as see if anyone else agrees with me. The ME universe is so rich and has so much potential that it would be a real shame to see it go down the drain. The following is my thoughts on what went wrong in ME2 and how to possibly avoid it in ME3. Keep in mind my criticism is based off only 1 playthough with the Vanguard class. I beat the game on regular difficulty topping out at lvl 27 at the end of the game with all side quests/missions/planet scans done. Also, for readers who haven't beat the game there might be spoilers up ahead regarding the story; you have been warned!

So coming from ME1 to ME2 Bioware had made some design choices to the overall game. Some for the better some for the worse. Let's start with what felt weak in the gameplay dapartment first, then we'll go onto story. From the beggining with their add campaign and interviews Bioware kept saying ME2 was built to be more streamlined, and that the shooter mechanics were much better than the first. This is totally fine, to make something better, but in my opinion it was worse than the first is many cases. It's more of a shooter? WHERE ARE ALL THE GUNS I CAN SHOOT WITH?! I really think Bioware dropped the ball on this one. The way items were found and distributed to your party members was very disapointing. Finding all those guns as well as armor was what made the first one so fun and gave it that RPG feel. You were constantly trying to figure out what gun worked with this battle or what armor was better than the other. In ME2 I got 3 armors to mix and match together.....and to make it even worse my party members only had 2 1-piece armors they could cycle through....wheres my customization???? It felt like there was a shortage on every gun except the heavy weapons, which by the end you had about 8 variants of? I found that a bit odd. Further, making you pick your weaponry only before the mission started also seemed to take away from the RPG element. Moving along with more gameplay mechanics is the health system. Now I know regenerating health is the bees knees in video games these days but it did not work in ME2. Why was the medigel taken out? It seemed to work fine in ME1. If Bioware didn't like the medigel system why not create a skill for a certain class or maybe all classes that could heal the party/you?? Instead, I now get to hide behind cover for 15-20 seconds and wait there till I regen becuase the next shot could kill me. How is this streamlined? If anything it's making the battles slower and clunkier. Also, speaking of hiding behind cover, this mechanic was somewhat buggy for me. If i was too close to a cover shephard would not want to get down, hed just stand there. It would also happen if I got knocked out of cover by a spell, shephard would just stand there as bullets flew at me. I do, however, aplaued Bioware for fixing the slowdown/texture popp-ins/glitches that plauged the first ME during intense battles.


Building your character with his own unique skill set also felt like it wasn't as streamlined as it could have been. It was dumbed down rather than streamlined. I could only see the difference once my spell reached lvl 4. I also think making the special ammo rounds into spells was unnecessary and a waste of a slot for another cool biotic spell. I think a much better idea would be to create unique guns that you find that already have different element attributes attached to them...that way the same pistol can have many more variants and stronger ones would have better element attributes to them. This also avoids socketing your guns (ME1) as well as using the ammo rounds as spells, in my opinion, making it more streamlined. The way leveling your guy worked also seemed off. You would only gain levels after a mission was over. This broke the game up and made the missions into levels whick took away from the open world aspect of the game. For instance, if I went into a mission, killed a few guys and got a cool weapon, I couldn't just leave and gain a level from killing those enemies. I am forced to finish the quest and then I can gain the level. Some of the player's freedom is taken away this way. This is also true for the end of the game; even after completing 100% of the game I capped at lvl 27, so I'm either forced to replay it over (bad) or I have to wait for DLC that I have to pay for (even worse). Why not just allow the player to reach lvl 30 in that one playthrough? Or am I missing something? My last complaint for this section is the hacking aspect of the game. Altough it is better and more varied than the button presses of ME1, after a while the mini-games in the 2nd one got really stale and a bit annoying at the end. I think they could be even better!


Moving on to planet exploration gameplay. So ME1 had the Mako and ME2 had the....dropship. Alot of people moaned and groaned about the Mako and planet exploration in ME1, but oh boy do I miss it compared to what was given to me in ME2. Even though I agree the planets you landed on with the Mako were absolutely empty for the most part it was still fun to drive around and see the horizon on different planets or how the planets varied in landscape and whatnot. The mechanics of the Mako were very flawed but it changed the pace of the game. It brought a different gameplay element to the table. This is why I was hoping they would bring it back but improve on it. Even though it was a bastard to drive at times it was still fun pushing on the jets and see if you could launch yourself off a certain rock. Now I'm immidietly dropped at the base of a mission with the dropship...where's my exploration??? In the first ME1 you could drive around and find minerals as well as scan the planets for mineral. ME2 has you scaning minerals off planets with a sort of mini game....its fun for about the first 3-5 planets. I will take driving the Mako lookin for stuff over the scan mini game any day. It just wasn't fun, partly becuase it's a boring mini game in the first place but also because you were searching for the same damn 4 mineral over and over. You're FORCED into it in order to upgrade the ship so that in the end your team can survive. Bioware if you're going to keep this why not throw in some randomness into it? What if I could find some sort of relic, a beacon, unique weapons only found by scanning, items for the normandy.....instead of just 4 minerals???? This would make the treasure hunt aspect much more exciting.


I think the best idea is to bring the Mako back, fix it's mechanics, make it fun to drive and instead of making 20 mineral hot spots per planet. have up to 3 hot spots per planet were you either find unique items or you land with the mako to complete a mission and on the way to the mission you can find minerals (mining minigame????). Also create obstacles for the mako and environments only the mako can interact with??? It doesn't have to be this huge barren world...you can limit the driving area to a specific distance till you reach your mission. Speaking of missions, some of them were really great in ME2, some of them had me asking "why even bother?" Bring the mako back! ....and also elevators....those loading screens were just as long as some of those elevator rides and very uninteresting. At least in the elevator I could listen to the news!

Phew. We got through the issues I thought plagued the gameplay of ME2. So what did I find problematic with the story? Read on young grasshopper!

So I definetly do not have as many issues with the story as I did with the gameplay. The issues I DO HAVE with it are major ones however. First of all, the focus of the story/game is to take down the reapers and collectors (who are new to the game) The collectors are working for the reapers and your purpose is to find out who the collectors are, why are they doing this, and to stop them along with the reapers. So even though by the end you find out who the collectors are, you sorta find out why they're doing it, and you sorta stop them for now, it happens in roughly 20% of the game. The rest of the game is spent recruiting people and trying to gain their loyalty. Ofcourse if you don't recruit everyone and don't go gain their loyalty it would be more like 50% collectors story arch and 50% recruiting story arch but like I mention before I went through every mission. So while I do like the amount of teammates you are offered to play with, I felt like I was spending more time recruiting my team then trying to stop the collectors :T My next gripe: What happened to the Citadel?! Boy, did they dumb that down. You are limited to roughly 5 rooms or so. Here I was all excited to land on a rebuilt citadel and see the changes and hear what people had to say. I didn't get much of that though. Even when I went to see the council, who in my game was now Anderson, I thought there would be some great dialog there but It was a dissapointment.


My last issue is with the ending of the game. This is by far my biggest issue and all throughout the game I was brushing off all this other stuff I have been mentioning, but this, this was like a kick in the balls. So you spend about 30-40 hours prepping your team and after all that you get a really dissapointing last mission/ending. You finally get through the Omega 4 relay. YAY! and find the collector ship/base. Awesome right?? Not really. You would think there would be some cool exploration, unique items, etc. What you do get is a ride on a bunch of floating platforms for part of the mission and for the other part walking in a biotic bubble to the checkpoint all while fighting the same collector enemies with some husks sprinkled in between. You get to your destination only to find a huge....terminator??? This was just absurd. Why am i fighting a huge terminator? Why am I not instead fighting the hive mind who I am familiar with because he's been sprinkled throughout the story and he's the one who can take over the other collectors. He could have some really cool gameplay mechanics (calling upon the swarm, using unique biotic powers, using his anatomy in an interesting way) but instead I get to shoot red tubes of human paste for an anticlimatic and rather easy boss fight. The only reason why I saved the ship in the end was in hopes I could further explore it in DLC or in ME3. It's a very unique structure and so much could be done with it, instead I'm lead down a linear path only being able to pick wich team mates split up. T_T

This my friends concludes my review/thoughts/ideas of ME2. I do not mean to go on a rant but ME is such a great universe and I want to see great things from it. I'm only trying to be helpful and point out flaws that could be looked at and possibly fixed for the third. Even with the issues I had with it, I still think ME2 was a heck of a game, especially in a time where we aren't seeing too many RPGs. Your comments/opinions are all welcome and please let me know if I've said something that doesn't make any sense.
 
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Modifié par overseer909, 09 février 2010 - 08:46 .


#2
Cowboxe

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I agree for the most part. Like... 90%. I too have the ME fever and have great hopes for all future DLC content, patches, and ME3.

Like the OP said, this article is only meant to be constructive and not to totally degrade the game nor the developers, and I think they would appreciate that.

Modifié par Cowboxe, 09 février 2010 - 07:48 .


#3
neubourn

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Wowza wall o'text

#4
overseer909

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wall of good readin

Modifié par overseer909, 09 février 2010 - 08:10 .


#5
overseer909

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bump!

#6
Gill Kaiser

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Please, you really need to split that into actual paragraphs. Also, isn't this like the 5th time you've posted this exact thread?

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 09 février 2010 - 08:42 .


#7
overseer909

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better? no, only 2nd. First time i posted it in ME1 thread by accident and asked for it to get removed.

Modifié par overseer909, 09 février 2010 - 08:47 .


#8
Toranilor

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overseer909 wrote...

I  So even though by the end you find out who the collectors are, you sorta find out why they're doing it, and you sorta stop them for now, it happens in roughly 20% of the game. The rest of the game is spent recruiting people and trying to gain their loyalty. Ofcourse if you don't recruit everyone and don't go gain their loyalty it would be more like 50% collectors story arch and 50% recruiting story arch  


This was my main problem with the story.

I hope in ME3 the council/cerberus, knowing of the urgency of your mission just say "Here are your resources, go get them!" and give you most of your squaddies at the start.

That there's more time for the main story arch, and we have more time to get to know the characters better/explore their personality!

#9
Oilking72

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That's a whole lotta readin'. I'll have to get back to that.



And personally, from my perspective, nothing went "wrong" with ME2. Stuff I liked from the first game was taken out? Yup. Is ME2 perfect? Nope. Can ME2 be improved upon for ME3? Absolutely!



I think everyone should keep in mind that in Bioware, we have a company that actually listens to it's fans and tries to make improvements in part based on fan feedback. Not all companies are that attentive to their fan base.

#10
overseer909

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Ya it seemed so distracting, every teammate had something else going on all the while im scratching my head askin...what about the collectors?

#11
captainMal

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I thought they got the majority right.... the scanning planets mini game sucked, and just should have been a scan and find.. no moving little radar scanner around. I agree exploring would have been good with a new Mako, or new hover tank etc... hopefully DLC will explore that maybe



The guns and upgrades were much better, I hated the ME1 thing of upgrading barrels and sighting, and etc etc etc...



The ending was fine.. big terminator... a bit silly... but still fine with it... could have looked different... but wouldn't have the same meaning of a human reaper...from a visual standpoint...



all in all I think they made a much better game, and it runs soo much better on xbox than the previous one did. 9.5 out of 10 Bioware... no real complaints from me. !!




#12
overseer909

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Oilking72 wrote...

That's a whole lotta readin'. I'll have to get back to that.

And personally, from my perspective, nothing went "wrong" with ME2. Stuff I liked from the first game was taken out? Yup. Is ME2 perfect? Nope. Can ME2 be improved upon for ME3? Absolutely!

I think everyone should keep in mind that in Bioware, we have a company that actually listens to it's fans and tries to make improvements in part based on fan feedback. Not all companies are that attentive to their fan base.


I agree with you. My mistake on poor word choice..nothing did go wrong with it. I just think better choices could have been made. The reason for my post was becuase Bioware is one of those companies that does listen. Like I stated in my main post, Im not trying to degrade the game or developers. As a designer myself with some design sense I'm just pointing out what can be improved in the future. I hope you get to read the whole thing!

#13
Obsidian Thirteen

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Spot on!

#14
overseer909

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captainMal wrote...

I thought they got the majority right.... the scanning planets mini game sucked, and just should have been a scan and find.. no moving little radar scanner around. I agree exploring would have been good with a new Mako, or new hover tank etc... hopefully DLC will explore that maybe

The guns and upgrades were much better, I hated the ME1 thing of upgrading barrels and sighting, and etc etc etc...

The ending was fine.. big terminator... a bit silly... but still fine with it... could have looked different... but wouldn't have the same meaning of a human reaper...from a visual standpoint...

all in all I think they made a much better game, and it runs soo much better on xbox than the previous one did. 9.5 out of 10 Bioware... no real complaints from me. !!


They did improve on alot, I agree with you on that.  Upgrades were fine, If I had more guns to upgrade, the weapon customization in the first was a bit tedious...they need to find a middle ground for the 3rd imo.
I think the ending was rather anticlimatic, it was nothing compared to ME1's citadel blowing up and you having to jump out of the elevator and run on the side of the building to get to Saren. I also agree with the game being smoother, it was unplayable sometimes in ME1, the slowdown would get my shephard killed or i would get stuck in a glitch/geometry.

#15
overseer909

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Obsidian Thirteen wrote...

Spot on!


Thanks! Posted Image

#16
WilliamShatner

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All I wanted ME2 to be a was direct continuation of the original game, with Shepard utilising her full Spectre status and support from the council/alliance to dig deeper into the mystery of the protheans and treat of the reapers, as well as continue my relationships with squadmates and my love interest (Liara). I could forgive anything they would pull in terms of gameplay differences if they did that. ME is not my favourite game for its gameplay or technical prowess. It's because of the story and characters, and in my opinion BioWare dropped the ball into a hunchback whale on those accounts.

#17
overseer909

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WilliamShatner wrote...

All I wanted ME2 to be a was direct continuation of the original game, with Shepard utilising her full Spectre status and support from the council/alliance to dig deeper into the mystery of the protheans and treat of the reapers, as well as continue my relationships with squadmates and my love interest (Liara). I could forgive anything they would pull in terms of gameplay differences if they did that. ME is not my favourite game for its gameplay or technical prowess. It's because of the story and characters, and in my opinion BioWare dropped the ball into a hunchback whale on those accounts.


The council doesnt really do much in ME2 which was a let down. In my game I made Anderson head of the council and when I approached him in ME2 he kept hinting how he might not have been the right pick for the posittion. He at least gave me my specter status that. Beyond that you gain nothing from talking to him. A friend of mine you had the orginal council members told me they wanted nothing to do with shephard and kind of hated him actually. As far as continuation of the story goes, yes it was a bit lacking, instead of getting closer to the reapers you have another obstacle put in front of you, the collectors. You really don't find out anything about ACTUAL repears cept the fact they they control the protheans. At the end of the game you haven't really gotten closer to the reapers at all...youve just defeated the collectors....

#18
overseer909

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bump!

#19
overseer909

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bumpbump

#20
overseer909

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bumpbumpbump!!

#21
Midnight_Thirty

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The entire was recruiting a team for a suicide mission. THAT was the meat of the story. I don't understand why everyone doesn't realize why the loyalty missions were the highlight of the game. The characters were by far the richest and most interesting Bioware has yet created. The story in Mass Effect 2 is all about the building a team.



The "terminator" (Although I disagree with that term, because you imply that it's a big robot and it is actually a living being. A giant "husk" with intelligent capabilities) was a reaper taking on the form of it's "host". Throughout the game Human's genetic diversity was referenced several times, and in the end we see why the Reapers were targeting humans, diverse DNA. Good a reason as any to build the next generation of Reapers with. We all got to see where the Reapers came from, how they are made, etc. Big overall plot reveal in my opinion.




#22
Gyrotica

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I, uh, pretty much disagree with everything you said.



In addition, it would be a little more forgiving on others if, as mentioned, you broke up your paragraphs and made your points more concise. It would probably result in more of a response to your ideas.

#23
sirisaacx

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I can forgive almost every bit of this game Except for "Pants" (The endboss.) That was just ridiculous.

#24
Skyblade012

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I had no problem with the scanning, but I did feel the unexplored planets were woefully underused. The majority of them serve no purpose. Minerals are already extremely abundant, and the number of side quests that you get are miniscule compared to the original ME's massive amounts.



However, I thought it was quite clear that they were removing these to add more to the main story missions. While the side quests weren't as good or nearly as many as in the original game, the main story missions are incredible. Lots of character interaction, great depth, fun design. Overall, an excellent job, and well worth the switch away from the unexplored planets (though, with exploration being such a tiny part of the game, I really feel the probe/fuel system could have been done away with, and we just carry infinite of each.



I had no problem with the recruitment missions. You knew from the beginning what your objective was, and the entire purpose of the recruitments is to build up your team for the final mission. Yes, the entire game was a team-building excercise, but it was supposed to be one, and it worked that way. The way it is built, and the focus that is put on the recruitment and loyalty building are not a problem for me.



Nor do I expect the team building to go away for ME3. Rather, I expect it to get bigger. There are huge hints throughout the game that we will be building another force for the Reaper threat. Only, while the last force we built was a team for an infiltration/destruction mission, this one is a great alliance of races focusing their might against the Reapers. The game specifically mentions the geth, the quarians, and the rachni (depending on your ME1 actions) as potential forces to use against the Reapers. I figure we will be going from location to location in ME3, building up not just the trust and strength of our individual team, but rather that of entire races, as we unite the galaxy towards the final, epic battle, between the fleets of the free universe and that of the Reaper onslaught.



I also quite enjoyed the final mission. Fast paced, with an emphasis on protecting your team and keeping them working together that had underscored the entire game. I did not expect to fight Harbinger in person at any point. He was a controller and a manipulator, not a frontline fighter, and the reveal that Harbinger was actually a Reaper just reinforced that (though it was not entirely unexpected). The Collector General would likely not be suited for combat anyway.



The final boss fight was a slight letdown, as the Reaper larva's attacks were painfully telegraphed and easy to avoid, but the emotional state of the mission had reached such a great point that I really didn't care.

#25
JohnSheperd

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No real problems with the game. But I swear if you kill Harbinger and then all the other Reapers die I'm gonna be mad