104 réponses à ce sujet

[Midnight_Thirty]

Well said Slyblade012

[Cowboxe]

Ive never known a compelling story to revolve around the recruitment of a team. The recruitment should've played second fiddle to the Reaper/Collector threat(s). Maybe have more missions where we fight Collectors? Perhaps we scan a planet with a human colony on it and there just happen to be scans of Collector presence on the surface?

What I liked about the first ME1 is that the threat was everywhere! The Geth were everywhere! ..for better or worse, it let you know how far reaching and impending the doom of the galaxy and all sentient life was. There were almost literally no additional encounters with the primary enemies outside of the main story in ME2. I didnt feel the urgency of my mission, of the ultimate goal in all of this. The story arc across all three games had intentions of being epic; recruitment of a powerful and capable team is by no means epic, in my view.

To say that recruiting a team is the 'meat' of the story instead of the mission they are recruited for, is incorrect. When it comes down to it, the mission had little to no build up because, as most people can agree (seeing as how there is no debate about it present), the majority of the game is, in fact, about your teammates. Dont get me wrong, I thought that element of the game was beautifully done; I actually wanted more than just one mission or one action to gain loyalty, make me work for it. I love having characters fleshed out for me, filled with history and nuance allowing me the decision to like them, love them, or hate them. My problem is that there is hardly any serious attention given to the main mission beyond reference(s) in dialogue.

My main hope is to have DLC flesh out the threat a bit more with side quests involving investigations of human colonies hit by the Collectors, or recovering more derelict Reapers or Reaper tech from the zealot Geth, or maybe even uncovering more tangible evidence/experience of the conflict(s) between the Alliance and Cerberus. The fact that the possibilities are endless is what really entices and hypes me for the game, but it also sets up any good developer for near-guaranteed failure because they dont flesh out nearly as much as what I think is needed. Nevertheless, I stand by my previous statements that there needed to be more "reminders" of the overall threat and more attention to the true "meat" of the story in the form of playable content.

Modifié par Cowboxe, 10 février 2010 - 05:00 .

[WilliamShatner]

Midnight_Thirty wrote...

The entire was recruiting a team for a suicide mission. THAT was the meat of the story. I don't understand why everyone doesn't realize why the loyalty missions were the highlight of the game. The characters were by far the richest and most interesting Bioware has yet created. The story in Mass Effect 2 is all about the building a team.

The problem is when has a second act ever been about recruiting members?

We already recruited the team in ME1.   ME2 should have been about adding conflict.

ME2 is essentially a reboot of ME1.  It doesn't progress the trilogy at all. In terms  of continuing the story of an epic trilogy it is a dud.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 10 février 2010 - 04:57 .

[overseer909]

Midnight_Thirty wrote...

The entire was recruiting a team for a suicide mission. THAT was the meat of the story. I don't understand why everyone doesn't realize why the loyalty missions were the highlight of the game. The characters were by far the richest and most interesting Bioware has yet created. The story in Mass Effect 2 is all about the building a team.

The "terminator" (Although I disagree with that term, because you imply that it's a big robot and it is actually a living being. A giant "husk" with intelligent capabilities) was a reaper taking on the form of it's "host". Throughout the game Human's genetic diversity was referenced several times, and in the end we see why the Reapers were targeting humans, diverse DNA. Good a reason as any to build the next generation of Reapers with. We all got to see where the Reapers came from, how they are made, etc. Big overall plot reveal in my opinion.

The meat of the story? it was more like a bunch of different stories put together.. I was doing so much other **** to help team mates the whole collector/reaper plot just got left in the background. Some of those loyalty missions were so poor too. Would i rather find out cool info about collectors or go help jacob with his daddy issues, or mirandas daddy issues and finding her sister....what do i get...oh a nice email for completeing it...woo! The most intresting was legion, his story arch was by far the best, even better than the main story of ME2 and i just wanted to learn more about him and the geth. There were really no points in the game were ur offered some great story/info. for example ME1 the part of virmire both talking to saren and sovereign at the beacon...soooo interesting...or talking to the VI on Illos....great! The best thing in ME2 was probably finding out that the collectors are protheans.

Also we never really get to see wher they come from...we just get a shot of dark space at the end of the game..and what is your etc refrence to? Honestly the game felt like it went nowher.. end of ME1 you set out to fight the reapers....end of ME2...you set out to fight the reapers....did we progress at all? bioware just put an obstacle (collectors) to stall....

[overseer909]

Gyrotica wrote...

I, uh, pretty much disagree with everything you said.

In addition, it would be a little more forgiving on others if, as mentioned, you broke up your paragraphs and made your points more concise. It would probably result in more of a response to your ideas.

It would be great if you actually gave me some thoughts instead of just saying you disagree...i dont give a fuk...give me a reason why u do and maybe ill listen.

Also ive broken it up into pretty good pargraph junks. I know its a long read but if youre interested youll read it, if youre not you wont. You act like youre reading a damn novel...its like 5 paragraphs. prolly take you all of 10 minutes....

[overseer909]

Gyrotica wrote...

I, uh, pretty much disagree with everything you said.

In addition, it would be a little more forgiving on others if, as mentioned, you broke up your paragraphs and made your points more concise. It would probably result in more of a response to your ideas.

It would be great if you actually gave me some thoughts instead of just saying you disagree...i dont give a fuk...give me a reason why u do and maybe ill listen.

Also ive broken it up into pretty good pargraph junks. I know its a long read but if youre interested youll read it, if youre not you wont. You act like youre reading a damn novel...its like 5 paragraphs. prolly take you all of 10 minutes....

[overseer909]

Gyrotica wrote...

I, uh, pretty much disagree with everything you said.

In addition, it would be a little more forgiving on others if, as mentioned, you broke up your paragraphs and made your points more concise. It would probably result in more of a response to your ideas.

It would be great if you actually gave me some thoughts instead of just saying you disagree...i dont give a fuk...give me a reason why u do and maybe ill listen.

Also ive broken it up into pretty good pargraph junks. I know its a long read but if youre interested youll read it, if youre not you wont. You act like youre reading a damn novel...its like 5 paragraphs. prolly take you all of 10 minutes....

[Cowboxe]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The problem is when has a second act ever been about recruiting members?

We already recruited the team in ME1.   ME2 should have been about adding conflict.

ME2 is essentially a reboot of ME1.  It doesn't progress the trilogy at all. In terms  of continuing the story of an epic trilogy it is a dud.

Almost exactly how I feel ver batim! In fact, it's almost puzzling how Bioware, an exceptional and experienced story teller,  could possibly overlook something so basic as simple story progression. We arent talking taste here anymore, we are talking about fundamentals, something no conventional story can live without. They obviously dont agree with us otherwise we wouldnt be complaining, the content would be in there, but for someone who loves well thought out and beautifully executed stories and narratives of any sort, it is frustrating to see a team as beloved as Bioware slip up with an IP as cherished as Mass Effect.


...IMO, of course. I would like to keep this discussion as civil as possible so I apologize for any perceived insults.

Modifié par Cowboxe, 10 février 2010 - 05:10 .

[overseer909]

wow awesome triple post....how the hell did that happen

[overseer909]

Cowboxe wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

The problem is when has a second act ever been about recruiting members?

We already recruited the team in ME1.   ME2 should have been about adding conflict.

ME2 is essentially a reboot of ME1.  It doesn't progress the trilogy at all. In terms  of continuing the story of an epic trilogy it is a dud.

Almost exactly how I feel ver batim! In fact, it's almost puzzling how Bioware, an exceptional and experienced story teller,  could possibly overlook something so basic as simple story progression. We arent talking taste here anymore, we are talking about fundamentals, something no conventional story can live without. They obviously dont agree with us otherwise we wouldnt be complaining, the content would be in there, but for someone who loves well thought out and beautifully executed stories and narratives of any sort, it is frustrating to see a team as beloved as Bioware slip up with an IP as cherished as Mass Effect.


...IMO, of course. I would like to keep this discussion as civil as possible so I apologize for any perceived insults.

Ya i totally agree with both of u. like i said at the end of ME1 you set out destroy the reapers, at the end of ME2 you set out to destroy the reapers....its like you havent done anything....u just got past a big obstacle that bioware put into place...they could have made the collectors more interesting or better if they were just gona use the stall card :T

[overseer909]

Cowboxe wrote...

Ive never known a compelling story to revolve around the recruitment of a team. The recruitment should've played second fiddle to the Reaper/Collector threat(s). Maybe have more missions where we fight Collectors? Perhaps we scan a planet with a human colony on it and there just happen to be scans of Collector presence on the surface?

What I liked about the first ME1 is that the threat was everywhere! The Geth were everywhere! ..for better or worse, it let you know how far reaching and impending the doom of the galaxy and all sentient life was. There were almost literally no additional encounters with the primary enemies outside of the main story in ME2. I didnt feel the urgency of my mission, of the ultimate goal in all of this. The story arc across all three games had intentions of being epic; recruitment of a powerful and capable team is by no means epic, in my view.

To say that recruiting a team is the 'meat' of the story instead of the mission they are recruited for, is incorrect. When it comes down to it, the mission had little to no build up because, as most people can agree (seeing as how there is no debate about it present), the majority of the game is, in fact, about your teammates. Dont get me wrong, I thought that element of the game was beautifully done; I actually wanted more than just one mission or one action to gain loyalty, make me work for it. I love having characters fleshed out for me, filled with history and nuance allowing me the decision to like them, love them, or hate them. My problem is that there is hardly any serious attention given to the main mission beyond reference(s) in dialogue.

My main hope is to have DLC flesh out the threat a bit more with side quests involving investigations of human colonies hit by the Collectors, or recovering more derelict Reapers or Reaper tech from the zealot Geth, or maybe even uncovering more tangible evidence/experience of the conflict(s) between the Alliance and Cerberus. The fact that the possibilities are endless is what really entices and hypes me for the game, but it also sets up any good developer for near-guaranteed failure because they dont flesh out nearly as much as what I think is needed. Nevertheless, I stand by my previous statements that there needed to be more "reminders" of the overall threat and more attention to the true "meat" of the story in the form of playable content.

ditto

[nteger]

If you think about it, ME 2 actually has more guns. ME 1 had 2 models
for each gun in different colors. ME 2 adds even more models plus smg's
and heavy weapons. I like how each gun  functions differently (rof,
accuracy, clip size, damage, etc.), but I think it would be awesome if
they made the weapons modular like the N7 armor. This way we could apply
the weapon mods that we had in ME 1 to customize our weapons and make
them function the way we want them to. Even if the weapon mods don't
change the way the gun looks, and only changes the way it works, I would
appreciate being able to change their colors.



As for the Mako, I we don't know how the Hammerhead is going to play out
yet, but I think if ditched planet scanning and added in planet
exploration on a smaller, more linear scale it would make side quests
much more fun. In ME 2 gathering resources is essential to the main
story, but it sucks. The side quests, while unique and well done, didn't
really add anything to the main game. If they make the side quests
similar to the Mako runs on Virmire, Feros, and Noveria (only scaled
down) and used that as the means to collect resources (whether they be
minerals, technology, allies, whatever) it would make side quests
actually worth doing. It would also make gathering resources more fun
because combat and maybe story would be involved.

Modifié par nteger, 10 février 2010 - 05:27 .

[defenestrated]

overseer909 wrote...

This is totally fine, to make something better, but in my opinion it was worse than the first is many cases. It's more of a shooter? WHERE ARE ALL THE GUNS I CAN SHOOT WITH?! I really think Bioware dropped the ball on this one. The way items were found and distributed to your party members was very disapointing. Finding all those guns as well as armor was what made the first one so fun and gave it that RPG feel. You were constantly trying to figure out what gun worked with this battle or what armor was better than the other.

My experience was almost the exact reverse - go figure. In ME2, I switched types of weapons several times during a mission. In ME1, I tended to use the same type, got the HWMA VII version of that type ASAP, and didn't switch that until I could buy the HWMA X. There are other RPGs where I really get into the inventory system but in ME1, it was that-thing-that-clogged-up. And on a New Game+, forget it  - it's a vestigial limb.

In terms of aesthetic choices, I actually get more in ME2. For Shepard. Really, really miss being able to do more with squad armor so I'm with you there.

Further, making you pick your weaponry only before the mission started also seemed to take away from the RPG element. Moving along with more gameplay mechanics is the health system. Now I know regenerating health is the bees knees in video games these days but it did not work in ME2. Why was the medigel taken out? It seemed to work fine in ME1. If Bioware didn't like the medigel system why not create a skill for a certain class or maybe all classes that could heal the party/you?? Instead, I now get to hide behind cover for 15-20 seconds and wait there till I regen becuase the next shot could kill me. How is this streamlined? If anything it's making the battles slower and clunkier.

Again, very different experience. In ME1, I had more than a few deaths that resulted from timing a Medi-Gel application badly, then having to rez a teammate, then waiting for either the slow regen from a Medical Exoskeleton or the Medi-Gel to be usable again during which time the affected party members might have regenerated shields but that did nothing for their health bar. If I screwed up the timing or tactics, the time I had to wait to get everyone back to 100% was significantly less in ME2.

Also, speaking of hiding behind cover, this mechanic was somewhat buggy for me. If i was too close to a cover shephard would not want to get down, hed just stand there. It would also happen if I got knocked out of cover by a spell, shephard would just stand there as bullets flew at me.

Didn't have the first problem but I don't think the second one is a bug. You weren't knocked out of cover intentionally so why would getting back in cover be automatic?

Why not just allow the player to reach lvl 30 in that one playthrough? Or am I missing something?

You can, but you need an existing ME1 Shepard that was sufficiently high-leveled.

Moving on to planet exploration gameplay. So ME1 had the Mako and ME2 had the....dropship. Alot of people moaned and groaned about the Mako and planet exploration in ME1, but oh boy do I miss it compared to what was given to me in ME2.

Agreed, and I can't wait for the DLC with the Hammerhead tank. I stopped doing the gathering assignments in ME1 awhile back but I still love wandering around and doing the other planetary assignments.

So I definetly do not have as many issues with the story as I did with the gameplay. The issues I DO HAVE with it are major ones however. First of all, the focus of the story/game is to take down the reapers and collectors (who are new to the game) The collectors are working for the reapers and your purpose is to find out who the collectors are, why are they doing this, and to stop them along with the reapers. So even though by the end you find out who the collectors are, you sorta find out why they're doing it, and you sorta stop them for now, it happens in roughly 20% of the game. The rest of the game is spent recruiting people and trying to gain their loyalty. Ofcourse if you don't recruit everyone and don't go gain their loyalty it would be more like 50% collectors story arch and 50% recruiting story arch but like I mention before I went through every mission. So while I do like the amount of teammates you are offered to play with, I felt like I was spending more time recruiting my team then trying to stop the collectors

Consider for a moment that the focus of ME2 is more on Shepard surviving a suicide mission than it is Shepard taking down the Collectors.

You get to your destination only to find a huge....terminator??? This was just absurd. Why am i fighting a huge terminator? Why am I not instead fighting the hive mind who I am familiar with because he's been sprinkled throughout the story and he's the one who can take over the other collectors.

I giggled like mad at the human reaper but the "hive mind" you're referring to was Harbinger, a Reaper who was possessing the Collector General in order to possess the other Collectors. If we don't see Harbinger in ME3, I will be very confused.

Modifié par defenestrated, 10 février 2010 - 05:32 .

[overseer909]

nteger wrote...

If you think about it, ME 2 actually has more guns. ME 1 had 2 models
for each gun in different colors. ME 2 adds even more models plus smg's
and heavy weapons. I like how each gun  functions differently (rof,
accuracy, clip size, damage, etc.), but I think it would be awesome if
they made the weapons modular like the N7 armor. This way we could apply
the weapon mods that we had in ME 1 to customize our weapons and make
them function the way we want them to. Even if the weapon mods don't
change the way the gun looks, and only changes the way it works, I would
appreciate being able to change their colors.



As for the Mako, I we don't know how the Hammerhead is going to play out
yet, but I think if ditched planet scanning and added in planet
exploration on a smaller, more linear scale it would make side quests
much more fun. In ME 2 gathering resources is essential to the main
story, but it sucks. The side quests, while unique and well done, didn't
really add anything to the main game. If they make the side quests
similar to the Mako runs on Virmire, Feros, and Noveria (only scaled
down) and used that as the means to collect resources (whether they be
minerals, technology, allies, whatever) it would make side quests
actually worth doing. It would also make gathering resources more fun
because combat and maybe story would be involved.

Ya my argument isnt on how the guns actually look. im with you on that. Fine give me the same looking gun but change the way it works. Make it feel like the gun is actually gettin stronger as you progress the game. Lets say you find one at the start of the game that has a toxic atribute on the bullets. What if later on you find the same looking gun but this one has a flamethrow type of attribute but it spits out toxis goop or something. Making it the stronger and better gun.

The side mission did seem like they were lacking. example: go here and pick this up. ok done...now what? oh thats it. hmm ok >_> What if you went to a secret base to retrive an armor or gun only obtainable at that mission. Or what if you went to a side mission and the collectors came and interfered, splash some of the main story arch into the side missions. The mako is what made virmire/feros/noveria fun, its split up the gameplay...instead of just running and gunning the whole way i could drive a space vehicle for part of it.  The planet scanning was horrible...it was more boring than driving in the mako lookin for minerals in the first ME.

So all in all I agree with your input

[overseer909]

defenestrated wrote...

overseer909 wrote...

This is totally fine, to make something better, but in my opinion it was worse than the first is many cases. It's more of a shooter? WHERE ARE ALL THE GUNS I CAN SHOOT WITH?! I really think Bioware dropped the ball on this one. The way items were found and distributed to your party members was very disapointing. Finding all those guns as well as armor was what made the first one so fun and gave it that RPG feel. You were constantly trying to figure out what gun worked with this battle or what armor was better than the other.

My experience was almost the exact reverse - go figure. In ME2, I switched types of weapons several times during a mission. In ME1, I tended to use the same type, got the HWMA VII version of that type ASAP, and didn't switch that until I could buy the HWMA X. There are other RPGs where I really get into the inventory system but in ME1, it was that-thing-that-clogged-up. And on a New Game+, forget it  - it's a vestigial limb.

In terms of aesthetic choices, I actually get more in ME2. For Shepard. Really, really miss being able to do more with squad armor so I'm with you there.

Further, making you pick your weaponry only before the mission started also seemed to take away from the RPG element. Moving along with more gameplay mechanics is the health system. Now I know regenerating health is the bees knees in video games these days but it did not work in ME2. Why was the medigel taken out? It seemed to work fine in ME1. If Bioware didn't like the medigel system why not create a skill for a certain class or maybe all classes that could heal the party/you?? Instead, I now get to hide behind cover for 15-20 seconds and wait there till I regen becuase the next shot could kill me. How is this streamlined? If anything it's making the battles slower and clunkier.

Again, very different experience. In ME1, I had more than a few deaths that resulted from timing a Medi-Gel application badly, then having to rez a teammate, then waiting for either the slow regen from a Medical Exoskeleton or the Medi-Gel to be usable again during which time the affected party members might have regenerated shields but that did nothing for their health bar. If I screwed up the timing or tactics, the time I had to wait to get everyone back to 100% was significantly less in ME2.

Also, speaking of hiding behind cover, this mechanic was somewhat buggy for me. If i was too close to a cover shephard would not want to get down, hed just stand there. It would also happen if I got knocked out of cover by a spell, shephard would just stand there as bullets flew at me.

Didn't have the first problem but I don't think the second one is a bug. You weren't knocked out of cover intentionally so why would getting back in cover be automatic?

Why not just allow the player to reach lvl 30 in that one playthrough? Or am I missing something?

You can, but you need an existing ME1 Shepard that was sufficiently high-leveled.

Moving on to planet exploration gameplay. So ME1 had the Mako and ME2 had the....dropship. Alot of people moaned and groaned about the Mako and planet exploration in ME1, but oh boy do I miss it compared to what was given to me in ME2.

Agreed, and I can't wait for the DLC with the Hammerhead tank. I stopped doing the gathering assignments in ME1 awhile back but I still love wandering around and doing the other planetary assignments.

So I definetly do not have as many issues with the story as I did with the gameplay. The issues I DO HAVE with it are major ones however. First of all, the focus of the story/game is to take down the reapers and collectors (who are new to the game) The collectors are working for the reapers and your purpose is to find out who the collectors are, why are they doing this, and to stop them along with the reapers. So even though by the end you find out who the collectors are, you sorta find out why they're doing it, and you sorta stop them for now, it happens in roughly 20% of the game. The rest of the game is spent recruiting people and trying to gain their loyalty. Ofcourse if you don't recruit everyone and don't go gain their loyalty it would be more like 50% collectors story arch and 50% recruiting story arch but like I mention before I went through every mission. So while I do like the amount of teammates you are offered to play with, I felt like I was spending more time recruiting my team then trying to stop the collectors

Consider for a moment that the focus of ME2 is more on Shepard surviving a suicide mission than it is Shepard taking down the Collectors.

You get to your destination only to find a huge....terminator??? This was just absurd. Why am i fighting a huge terminator? Why am I not instead fighting the hive mind who I am familiar with because he's been sprinkled throughout the story and he's the one who can take over the other collectors.

I giggled like mad at the human reaper but the "hive mind" you're referring to was Harbinger, a Reaper who was possessing the Collector General in order to possess the other Collectors. If we don't see Harbinger in ME3, I will be very confused.

I agree that the ME1 inventory was cluttered and using it in playthrough 2 was useless, but this is why you IMPROVE on it not take it out completely.

Moving onto the medigel issue. I think in ME1 timing it and figuring out when to cast shield gave it that RPG element. You had to stratigize. This is why i dont like the one in ME2..its too much like Gears...all i have to do is sit behind cover and wait. THe first ME required you to be smart with the wheel system. The wheel system in this is so dumbed down, why are all my spells on cool down only after using one spell?

As far as the glitch with cover. What i was trying to say was that I would get knock out of it and when I press A to get back into cover hed just stand there...I would have to move back a few feet and run into it again resulting in him finally hiding.

I imported a level 57 shephard into ME2....so i guess thats not high enough. But also think of the people who didnt play ME1....they cant get to lvl 30 on the first playthrough...that kinda sucks you know?

Thanks for the input even with contrasting opinions

[defenestrated]

overseer909 wrote...

Moving onto the medigel issue. I think in ME1 timing it and figuring out when to cast shield gave it that RPG element. You had to stratigize. This is why i dont like the one in ME2..its too much like Gears...all i have to do is sit behind cover and wait. THe first ME required you to be smart with the wheel system. The wheel system in this is so dumbed down, why are all my spells on cool down only after using one spell?

Initially, this point was about whether the health regen made combat more streamlined. Whether combat is more strategic in the old system is a slightly different issue, and I'd still argue that (at least for me) ME2 wins on that one. I was switching weapons, directing squadmates to cover, take care how wild my shots got, skills like Singularity got toned down so you couldn't cast it and watch 20 guys fly by... I could go on. The two games did have different feels to a risky fight though - if you were in a bad way in ME2, you either died or found a solution but whatever happened happened fast. In ME1, you could keep going in a fight in which you were seriously hurt for longer periods of time.

As far as the glitch with cover. What i was trying to say was that I would get knock out of it and when I press A to get back into cover hed just stand there...I would have to move back a few feet and run into it again resulting in him finally hiding.

Oh. Nasty. PC version doesn't have that - hope they get it patched for you.

I imported a level 57 shephard into ME2....so i guess thats not high enough. But also think of the people who didnt play ME1....they cant get to lvl 30 on the first playthrough...that kinda sucks you know?

I managed it on a level 60 Shepard - you might have needed the achievement. But that sort of argues against it being unfair that you can't get to level 30, doesn't it? I can't get to 60 on one playthrough of ME1 either, even with all the exp bonuses from achievements.

Thanks for the input even with contrasting opinions

No problem - thanks for yours as well.

Modifié par defenestrated, 10 février 2010 - 06:12 .

[overseer909]

defenestrated wrote...

overseer909 wrote...

Moving onto the medigel issue. I think in ME1 timing it and figuring out when to cast shield gave it that RPG element. You had to stratigize. This is why i dont like the one in ME2..its too much like Gears...all i have to do is sit behind cover and wait. THe first ME required you to be smart with the wheel system. The wheel system in this is so dumbed down, why are all my spells on cool down only after using one spell?

Initially, this point was about whether the health regen made combat more streamlined. Whether combat is more strategic in the old system is a slightly different issue, and I'd still argue that (at least for me) ME2 wins on that one. I was switching weapons, directing squadmates to cover, take care how wild my shots got, skills like Singularity got toned down so you couldn't cast it and watch 20 guys fly by... I could go on. The two games did have different feels to a risky fight though - if you were in a bad way in ME2, you either died or found a solution but whatever happened happened fast. In ME1, you could keep going in a fight in which you were seriously hurt for longer periods of time.

As far as the glitch with cover. What i was trying to say was that I would get knock out of it and when I press A to get back into cover hed just stand there...I would have to move back a few feet and run into it again resulting in him finally hiding.

Oh. Nasty. PC version doesn't have that - hope they get it patched for you.

I imported a level 57 shephard into ME2....so i guess thats not high enough. But also think of the people who didnt play ME1....they cant get to lvl 30 on the first playthrough...that kinda sucks you know?

I managed it on a level 60 Shepard - you might have needed the achievement. But that sort of argues against it being unfair that you can't get to level 30, doesn't it? I can't get to 60 on one playthrough of ME1 either, even with all the exp bonuses from achievements.

Thanks for the input even with contrasting opinions

No problem - thanks for yours as well.

I think they just need to find the middle ground between the 2 games and take that to create the 3rd. As of right now though, taking away the technical issues of ME1 (slowdown, glitches, texture pop-ins) i think it was a better game than ME2

[overseer909]

bump!

[Ciry]

Some good points OP. I don't necessarily agree on everything, but still good.



I would like some branching stories and dialogues. Choices that shut something out, so that I couldn't see/hear everything in two playthroughs. And continue further, into consecutive missions and dialogues. Nothing major necessarily, but still some branching – something that could suprise you in your fifth playthrough.



Also the persuasion/intimidation scores should be separated from renegade/paragon scores. This causes me to change my character, I feel I have to "play the system" to get the necessary points so I could for example recruit Morinth. Or postpone the mission until I have the points needed. This takes me out of the game.



Still, my major gripe is with the dialogue system – in ME1 it felt somehow more "organic" and even though there was the same VO for the three choices (usually) on the right side of the dialogue-wheel the words chosen to represent these choices were the things that differentiated them in the player's head. It was important to the roleplaying aspect.



There are (from the top of my head) two moments in ME2 that take too much of the control away from the player:



1) Meeting Ashley/Kaidan on Horizon: they basically call you a turn-coat/traitor and Shep just stands there. Why couldn't I say anything? Why would Shepard listen to that? As a paragon I would lament at their lack of trust in Shepard, since Tali and Garrus have so absolute trust. As a renegade I could screech about the betrayal/abandonment of politicians and the council.



2) Meeting the asari geneticist from Virmire at the junk-planet. Basically she was working on a boot-strap indoctrination / still playing god. Yet I couldn't correct my mistake? And after the asinine dialogue the lack of choice gets rubbed into my face by my companions.



I can't remember a single moment from ME1 where I felt as powerless–where I wanted to do anything different than what was offered. Yet I believe I could find even more moments where I felt that in ME2.

[ThePasserby]

overseer909 wrote...

Ya i totally agree with both of u. like i said at the end of ME1 you set out destroy the reapers, at the end of ME2 you set out to destroy the reapers....its like you havent done anything....u just got past a big obstacle that bioware put into place...they could have made the collectors more interesting or better if they were just gona use the stall card :T

Going by this logic, in The Empire Strike Back, nothing happened, as at the end of Episode 4, Skywalker set out to defeat the Galactic Empire and at the end of episode 5, he set out to defeat the Galactic Empire.

I'm happy with the portrayal of the Collectors. The story reveals what really happened to the Protheans, long venerated as masters of the galaxy. I wonder what this revelation will do to the hanar's religion of the Enkindlers.

[Cowboxe]

I like how the Collectors are portrayed as well. My problem comes from the lack of confrontations with them.



The Reaper threat is essentially the overarching theme of all three games so it makes sense to me why they are still a threat at the end of ME2; however, unless you save the Collector ship, very little is done to progress that element. They are still coming and, as Harbinger stated, we've ultimately accomplished nothing.



Collectors were pawns, very powerful pawns. If I had more contact with them or more experiences involving their treachery, then maybe I wouldnt have felt the same way Harbinger did when I destroyed their home base.

[Legbiter]

Executive summary?

[Saurel]

Don't want to see Mako come back personally. I was fine with the loading screens. An elevator here or there would have not been unwelcome..



I liked the new combat system vastly more than the first.



I do agree with you on the Citadel (waste of potential) and... the general plot. I found it compelling, but it really was more of a combination of cool set pieces as opposed to something that is great as a whole. And yes the Giant Terminator was god awful......god god awful.

[Meshakhad]

Gameplay-wise, I'd like a better ammo system. Perhaps you only start using thermal clips when your gun starts to overheat (what I thought it would be). Also, have all weapons draw clips from a common pool. One of my favorite things about ME1 was that I never had to pull out my pistol because I was low on ammo.

Story-wise, I want Liara and Ashley/Kaidan as squad members. I want to be once again working for the Council and the Alliance. And I want the rachni to pull a Big Damn Bugswarm against the Reapers!

[Imperator Augustus]

The game is very good, however, there are things that I don't agree with. I'm not a fan of the thermal clip system, especially since a lot of the guns always run out of ammo when in a huge/prolonged firefight. Having a limited selection of guns isn't that bad, it actually makes sense. Gun technology wouldn't be that different from corporation to corporation. I know the endless gun upgrades in the first game were rather tedious, but they made sense. The overheating was never a problem if you just fired in bursts and once you got the right upgrades it was never a problem. Also, they should go back to the assault rifle sound effects form ME1 and the little "sonic boom" effect around each shot. The assault rifles in the first game sounded like they had a lot more oomph to them.



I am disappointed in the lack of armor options. The customization is a nice feature, but it gets old when you only have three choices for each body part. What they should do for ME3 is have a combo system. You can buy individual armor sets and/or pieces, but you can also mix and match different pieces between armors. Also, squad armor. It's just ridiculous when you see 75% of your squad running around the battlefield in simple clothes or wandering through a vacuum/hazardous environment with nothing but a breathing device over their face. This should also be customizable. Additionally, they should go back to the toggle helmet feature.



Make the melee usable.