143 réponses à ce sujet

[hitorihanzo]

WillieStyle wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

I'm playing (and replaying because I can't beat it), the Recruit Tali mission on Hardcore.  It was fun for a little bit, but now there's too many Geth, not enough bullets, and my companion A.I. is nonexistant.  Garrus' stupid ass gets himself killed unless I babysit him.  All of this while I'm trying to play hide & see with a Colossus that never misses (homing shots are such a great idea!) with inadequate cover for the difficulty that I'm playing on because almost all of the geth come equipped with shields, and my guns take too long to lower them.  And since my companions really have only two available powers, they are on constant cooldown cycles.  So you HAVE to use your gun.  I'm honestly frustrated right now, and cursing the mother of the person that thought this was a good idea.

What class are you playing as?
I'd suggest bringing companions with overload (Miranda and Garrus work great) or squad disruptor ammo (Zaeed).
If you're finding yourself overwhelmed with the number of enemies, go up the right side.  It has the fewest enemies.  However, there is less shade on that side so your shields will drop quickly.
Don't worry about the Colossuss.  Its attacks won't hit you behind cover.  Take out the Geth on the right while ducking behind cover whenever the Col fires at you.  Run up to the end of the right bride. Now the hard part is done. You're in the shade so your shields won't run out. You can take cover behind the railing to block the colossus and only 2 or 3 Geth remain to kill. Finish them off then go round to the right side of the Colussuss. It won't repair itself any longer.  Nor will any more Geth come at you.  From here, just attack it from cover till it dies.

Don't worry if your squad mates die while crossing the bridge.  Ignore them till you get to the other side, then res them with Unity and rally them to your position.

I'm playing as a Vanguard.  Biggest mistake I've made in this game lol.  Thanks for the advice.

[WillieStyle]

Kroniker81 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Also you originally said:

Maybe you just think so? Most enemies will never advance beyond a certain point. If you don't rush and end up within their range, they'll let you forever be behind your cover. Just try it. The game is creating an illusion there, once you see through it, the appeal is quickly gone. At least that was my experience, hence this thread.

Which is patently untrue.Most enemies will try to flank or charge you the moment you engage in combat no matter how far back you camp yourself.

Same goes for ME 1.

In ME1 I could snipe enemies from a mountaintop 3 miles away and they wouldn't even fire back or take cover.
Besides, cover didn't matter much in ME1.  You could stay out in the open without getting killed unless you were fighting rocket launchers or snipers.  Even then, you could just side strafe all day to avoid any damage from rockets or laser guided snipers.
ME1 was a fun game, but it was nowhere near as tactical or challenging as ME2.

[WillieStyle]

hitorihanzo wrote...
I'm playing as a Vanguard.  Biggest mistake I've made in this game lol.  Thanks for the advice.

Vanguards are harder to play on higher difficulty levels. They require a high-risk aggressive playstyle. But once you master it, they're tons of fun.
Check out some Vanguard videos by Sinosleep.  He makes them look really powerful.

Also, if you're a vanguard then you really want to take the right side.  It's the "agressive" path and charge will help you get across faster.  I think there are 6 get there.  Run to the right. Kill 3 geth then charge forward. Kill the next 3 and you should be safe.

[Kroniker81]

WillieStyle wrote...

In ME1 I could snipe enemies from a mountaintop 3 miles away and they wouldn't even fire back or take cover.
Besides, cover didn't matter much in ME1.  You could stay out in the open without getting killed unless you were fighting rocket launchers or snipers.  Even then, you could just side strafe all day to avoid any damage from rockets or laser guided snipers.
ME1 was a fun game, but it was nowhere near as tactical or challenging as ME2.

Untrue. I just did the mission where you have to disarm the nuke and you come out far atop the pirate camp which also got your Mako. They shot back when I opned fire with my sniper rifle.
It is also untrue that you can easily just strafe. I still get hit by Snipers and rockets. It's rare but it happens. Cover is much much better than strafing. You hit better and you get hit even less if you have even a modicum of reflexes.
Leaving cover and strafing around is always riskier than using cover but it opens the opportunity to finish the combat faster.

Both are not that challenging. I played much harder games than both of them combined.

[bjdbwea]

Kroniker81 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

Also you originally said:

Maybe you just think so? Most enemies will never advance beyond a certain point. If you don't rush and end up within their range, they'll let you forever be behind your cover. Just try it. The game is creating an illusion there, once you see through it, the appeal is quickly gone. At least that was my experience, hence this thread.

Which is patently untrue.Most enemies will try to flank or charge you the moment you engage in combat no matter how far back you camp yourself.

Same goes for ME 1.

Not true in either game. Even in ME 1 enemies will usually not follow you behind certain points. On Eden Prime, they disappear (!) once you have retreated far enough, only to appear again once you step over an invisible border. Typical console stuff, but what can you do. Overall they are still more aggressive than in ME 2. It is simply not true that "most" enemies will flank or charge. Melee enemies do, but even Krogans are easily dispatched, even on Hardcore. Ranged enemies stay behind their cover. Of course they occasionally shoot at you (or senselessly on the crate you are covering behind), but they do nothing to put pressure on you. You have all the time in the world to fire, heal, fire, heal, fire...

Modifié par bjdbwea, 11 février 2010 - 10:02 .

[Kroniker81]

bjdbwea wrote..

Not true in either game. Even in ME 1 enemies will usually not follow you behind certain points. On Eden Prime, they disappear (!) once you have retreated far enough, only to appear again once you step over an invisible border. Typical console stuff, but what can you do. Overall they are still more aggressive than in ME 2. It is simply not true that "most" enemies will flank or charge. Melee enemies do, but even Krogan are easily dispatched, even on Hardcore. Ranged enemies stay behind their cover. Of course they occasionally shoot at you (or senselessly on the crate you are covering behind), but they do nothing to put pressure on you. You have all the time in the world to fire, heal, fire, heal, fire...

I realize they do not really flank. Certain enemies just rush you in a kind of slight half circle and depending on cover they are sometimes more or less forced to flank you since there is no other way to come to you.
I just wanted to say that there is no real difference in enemy behaviour in ME 2 compared to ME 1. None that is really noticable by a large margin.

[hitorihanzo]

WillieStyle wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...
I'm playing as a Vanguard.  Biggest mistake I've made in this game lol.  Thanks for the advice.

Vanguards are harder to play on higher difficulty levels. They require a high-risk aggressive playstyle. But once you master it, they're tons of fun.
Check out some Vanguard videos by Sinosleep.  He makes them look really powerful.

Also, if you're a vanguard then you really want to take the right side.  It's the "agressive" path and charge will help you get across faster.  I think there are 6 get there.  Run to the right. Kill 3 geth then charge forward. Kill the next 3 and you should be safe.

Just took the right side and completed the mission.  Thanks a lot, man!  You saved me another headache.

[bjdbwea]

Kroniker81 wrote...

I just wanted to say that there is no real difference in enemy behaviour in ME 2 compared to ME 1. None that is really noticable by a large margin.

Okay. I never said combat in ME 1 was excellent. My actual point is that BioWare unfortunately threw away much of what (beyond combat) made ME 1 great, and put so much more focus on the action, yet actually not even that is improved over ME 1. Though if people at least feel they're better entertained, I guess BioWare accomplished what they intended. I for one don't feel better entertained and will refrain from purchasing ME 3 if it doesn't improve on the whole.

[WillieStyle]

bjdbwea wrote...

Not true in either game. Even in ME 1 enemies will usually not follow you behind certain points. On Eden Prime, they disappear (!) once you have retreated far enough, only to appear again once you step over an invisible border. Typical console stuff, but what can you do. Overall they are still more aggressive than in ME 2. It is simply not true that "most" enemies will flank or charge. Melee enemies do, but even Krogans are easily dispatched, even on Hardcore. Ranged enemies stay behind their cover. Of course they occasionally shoot at you (or senselessly on the crate you are covering behind), but they do nothing to put pressure on you. You have all the time in the world to fire, heal, fire, heal, fire...

This is gettig ridiculous.

Enemies that will charge your position:
-Krogan
-Geth Destroyers/Hunters/Prime
-Shotgun Wielding Blue Sun Mercs.
-Varen/Mech attack dogs
-Husks/Abominations
-Harbinger
-Praetorians
-Scions

Enemies that have attacks that will knock you out of cover:
-Harbinger
-Scions
-Eclipse Engineers
-Humanoid Biotics

Enemies that will circle around cover to try to flank you.
-Merc Snipers
-Merc Rocket troopers
-Collector Assassins
-Heavy Mechs

Given the wide range of enemies that will either take you out of cover, flank you or attack you through cover, simply staying behind cover will not trivialize the game.  That was your original claim and it is simply false.  And we haven't even mentioned the fact that you're a lot more likely to run out of ammo if you don't advance on the enemy.

You can claim that you take out Krogen "easily" all you want.  I'm sure you do.  Grats on being awesome.  However, the typical player will not be able to "easily" take out Krogen until they've played through the game a few times.
Furthermore, the typical player will get a very false impression of ME2 combat from reading anything you've written in this thread.

[WillieStyle]

hitorihanzo wrote...
Just took the right side and completed the mission.  Thanks a lot, man!  You saved me another headache.

No problem man.
Glad I could help.

[Shinji Ex]

Mass Effect 2 is more of a action adventure game not a RPG an there nothing wrong with that!

[Kurupt87]

WillieStyle wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

I just posted a thread saying the exact opposite of some of your points.  LOL.

Play this game on higher difficulties and you will get raped.  It's damn near unfair, it's so cheap.  Controller throwing cheap.

Huh, really? Maybe on consoles? Not on the PC. As I said, all my observations were made on Hardcore difficulty. No problems whatsoever once you see through the simple combat system. Only when an enemy irresistably knocks you out of cover, or when you are swarmed by melee enemies (namely Husks). In that case, the lazy system with never-missing enemies can become a problem, up to the point of being unfair at times indeed. That's why BioWare didn't employ such scenarios often and mostly sticks with the flashy looking shooting ranges.

Or Harbinger, Geth Destroyers/Hunters, Heavy Mechs charge your position,
Or Collector Snipers, Rocket Troopers, Shotgun wielding Mercs flank you
Or you run out of ammo because you're not advancing towards the enemy to pick up the thermal clips they drop.
Or you're playing a timed/infinite-respawn mission
etc.

The game is easy except when it isn't. 
All games become easy when you play them long enough (even Ninja Gaiden).  ME2 is more challenging and engaging than most.  ME1 was trivial halfway through my first play through.

completely agree, you don't even have to get half way through ME1 for combat to become ridiculously easy. if you're a soldier then you're already solid, and have immunity when you decide to /god, and to beat enemies all you have to do is keep going left, or, if you're feeling adventurous, right. if you're a biotic you have so many cc's available that the enemies might as well lie down while you shoot them. the only hard parts were being 1 hit killed by rocket/sniper/thresher maw, and that wasn't hard so much as cheap, and half the time completely down to luck or lack thereof.
in ME2 the enemies scale with you much better, normal enemies are a challenge until the very end of the game when you have all upgrades and top abilities.
storywise, ME2 is rather lacklustre compared to ME1, as storywise there are only, i think, 5 missions, the rest being to do with companions.
one thing i miss from ME1 is the wider range of abilities, but now i'm used to the real time use of abilities in ME2 i suspect that going back to ME1 combat and using abilities would be more of a chore. also, the sheer scope of customisation available in ME1 was awesome. it didn't matter that everyone generally ended up using collosus x or the green one with insane shields (forget its name), or had the same weapons and upgrades, just having that range in customisation was brilliant.

[Kroniker81]

bjdbwea wrote...

Okay. I never said combat in ME 1 was excellent. My actual point is that BioWare unfortunately threw away much of what (beyond combat) made ME 1 great, and put so much more focus on the action, yet actually not even that is improved over ME 1. Though if people at least feel they're better entertained, I guess BioWare accomplished what they intended. I for one don't feel better entertained and will refrain from purchasing ME 3 if it doesn't improve on the whole.

Spot on on the left out part.

Kurupt87 wrote...

completely agree, you don't even have
to get half way through ME1 for combat to become ridiculously easy. if
you're a soldier then you're already solid, and have immunity when you
decide to /god, and to beat enemies all you have to do is keep going
left, or, if you're feeling adventurous, right. if you're a biotic you
have so many cc's available that the enemies might as well lie down
while you shoot them. the only hard parts were being 1 hit killed by
rocket/sniper/thresher maw, and that wasn't hard so much as cheap, and
half the time completely down to luck or lack thereof.
in ME2 the
enemies scale with you much better, normal enemies are a challenge
until the very end of the game when you have all upgrades and top
abilities.
storywise, ME2 is rather lacklustre compared to ME1, as
storywise there are only, i think, 5 missions, the rest being to do
with companions.
one thing i miss from ME1 is the wider range of
abilities, but now i'm used to the real time use of abilities in ME2 i
suspect that going back to ME1 combat and using abilities would be more
of a chore. also, the sheer scope of customisation available in ME1 was
awesome. it didn't matter that everyone generally ended up using
collosus x or the green one with insane shields (forget its name), or
had the same weapons and upgrades, just having that range in
customisation was brilliant.

Simply untrue on the Adept part. Not that the game was really hard for any class.

Modifié par Kroniker81, 11 février 2010 - 10:18 .

[FlurryJK2]

I thought combat was harder in this one then ME1, where I could just run around with full electronics and kill things with my pistol

[Pocketgb]

bjdbwea wrote...

Apart from that, the defense "but ME 1 was, like, worse" has come up repeatedly. Again I have to say: In the beginning you were weak, you DIDN'T have the abilities people bring up as "prove" how easy it all was, you DIDN'T have the armor, you DIDN'T have the weapons.

Which didn't make the combat more "difficult", only take longer. That fight with the assassins in front of Chora's Den was "challenging" because it just took forever, and I don't usually take length into consideration when judging difficulty.

The hardest parts of the game were where you were low level and did one of the sidequests that pitted you against a huge plethora of bad guys. The problem here is that you're making it harder for yourself by not choosing to go at an earlier level, i.e. you're "creating your own difficulty", and thus you can't take it into account.

Nonetheless, you should be able to compare ME1's combat as a whole, not just at level 3.

bjdbwea wrote...

Many will be playing something else already, and that kind of proves my point in general about ME 2.

That people can get bored of games? I'm already playing something else - but that's because I've already put in 150 hours into ME2. For me, one playthrough alone was worth buying the normal *and* CE versions. Accept other's opinions. Assuming everyone else is wrong is *always* the wrong way to go.

[Xaenn]

I would say hands down 2 was harder, I get nigh 2 shot by anything except missiles on insanity, a lot of stuff forced you out of cover and a lot of stuff also chased you out of cover like williestyle said.

However if I were to choose a reason to complain about combat I would say Me was just a lot more fun, no shield/barrier armor restrictions, you could just hit people with your abilities, which wouldn't do much damage on hardcore + but it would CC them. Allowing you to unlock into enemies while some were crowd controlled. Which made sense as your abilities used were used as a tactical offense strategy which wasn't necessary but made it a lot more fun. If you didn't on insanity you would probably die.

The massive customization not only your character had but weapons as well (upgrades are not customization in 2, something totally different.). Some flaws with that too, as there was an ultimate weapon and some clear cut choices in ammo types, but it allowed for much more fun and room to play around. I would say 2 didn't trim the fat it trimmed a vital organ. Still Mass Effect 2 was a very fun game. They both were enjoyable.

Modifié par Xaenn, 11 février 2010 - 10:40 .

[TuringPoint]

bjdbwea wrote...

Not true in either game. Even in ME 1 enemies will usually not follow you behind certain points. On Eden Prime, they disappear (!) once you have retreated far enough, only to appear again once you step over an invisible border. Typical console stuff, but what can you do. Overall they are still more aggressive than in ME 2. It is simply not true that "most" enemies will flank or charge. Melee enemies do, but even Krogans are easily dispatched, even on Hardcore. Ranged enemies stay behind their cover. Of course they occasionally shoot at you (or senselessly on the crate you are covering behind), but they do nothing to put pressure on you. You have all the time in the world to fire, heal, fire, heal, fire...

I've figured it out.  You have a bugged game.  I don't know how, but you do.

Or else you didn't actually play on a high difficulty level at all.  I suspect, in fact, that you tried out insanity for a couple of seconds, decided it was exactly the same as normal and went back to your original assumption about the game.  Anyone who can finish ME 2 that quickly - supposedly - is going to be prone to snap judgements.  Also, I don't know how you can have the opinion that the plot and all the characters sucked so bad, that there was no depth, when you finish a game that quickly which is so much involved with presentation.

I have always found that enemies will try to flank you.  It's not an illusion.  I have actually had to back up my line of fire on multiple occasions, and other people have cited for your benefit specific occasions where THEY were defeated by a flanking, ranged enemy.

[smudboy]

One thing I didn't understand was the Ctrl button to be walk. Why are we walking? When do we ever need to walk, in or out of combat? Why aren't we going prone, laying down, crawling, or ducking/rolling? Oh, this isn't supposed to be a Gears of War clone? Water it down? Ah.



@OP

I did hate the enemies perfect aim, too.



Funny, how I want a more detailed, linear story, but we all want less linear game play.

[bjdbwea]

Alocormin wrote...

Or else you didn't actually play on a high difficulty level at all.  I suspect, in fact, that you tried out insanity for a couple of seconds, decided it was exactly the same as normal and went back to your original assumption about the game.  Anyone who can finish ME 2 that quickly - supposedly - is going to be prone to snap judgements.  Also, I don't know how you can have the opinion that the plot and all the characters sucked so bad, that there was no depth, when you finish a game that quickly which is so much involved with presentation.

Now it gets boring.

1. As I've said repeatedly, the difficulty I played on was Hardcore.

2. Nowhere did I say that I finished the game quickly. As I always do, I explored everything and did everything I could. Since then, I've played through the game again, doing the same. So yeah, I spent enough time with it to make the purchase worthwile, compared to other forms of entertainment. But my conclusion remains: It lacks much of what made the first part great. Don't need something like this again.