36 réponses à ce sujet

[Miths]

I'll finally be finishing my first playthrough of ME2 tonight as a soldier (on veteran), and as much as I love the Revenant, sniper rifles and Adrenaline Rush, I'm going to pick another class for my second run through the game (which will probably also be my last in a long time, I've got ADHD, so repetition, even with a fantastic game like this, is never easy).

I'm very much torn between engineer and sentinel though. I played both through the first hour of the game two weeks ago, but obviously that's not enough to get a proper taste of their capabilities.

As a soldier I've paid very little attention to my squad mates most of the time, almost never giving move orders unless they got stuck or ran straight into a bunch of enemies, and just occasionally directing them to use powers if the circumstances call for it.
I think I would like to hang back a bit more in my second playthrough, "directing" the battles and letting my squad mates do a lot of the direct damage (assuming they are actually capable of that? As a soldier I feel like I've been doing most of the work).

I've found Tali's combat drone quite useful on occasion, so that's one aspect that's attracting me to the engineer. Another is AI hacking, but that's obviously going to go completely unused in many battles. I also like the idea of the Cryo Blast (which both classes have), but it seems everyone around here hates cryo powers/ammo - and I've gotta admit that I've only rarely used it with my soldier.

Has anyone played both engineer and sentinel extensively? Which class did you enjoy the most? And are they both effective at the higher difficulty levels (I'll probably settle for hardcore, I don't think I have the patience for insanity)?

[SmilingMirror]

Sounds like you want to do Engineer more.
Engineers stay back and let their drones and AI buddies do the work. Tali and Legion with an Engineer is a pretty awesome combo for some missions.

Sentinel is extremely good at close combat, but you can't rush people. Warp and overload make it decent at ranged fights if you take either an assault rifle or sniper rifle.

which ones better? to be honest all the classes are pretty evenly matched, lvl 30 insanity during Mordins mission will be pretty brutal for anyone (since your missing upgrades). Sentinel is probably one of the most over powered class in the game...maybe the most powerful, but you'll need all the shield upgrades to be truly effective.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 09 février 2010 - 09:13 .

[Miths]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Sounds like you want to do Engineer more...

Yeah, I sorta do . But since there seems to be so relatively little talk about or praise for the engineer (at least people talk about the adept - if only to say she sucks on insanity), I just wanted to make sure I didn't get stuck with a horribly underpowered and boring class.

[lessthanjake9]

Sentinel is the more powerful class, so if that's what you want then go for Sentinel.

However, Sentinel isnt really particularly tactical. It really just goes like this. Keep Tech Armor on constantly. If you see armor, barriers, or health use Warp. If you see shields or synthetics, use Overload. If powers are on cooldown, use your weapon. It's not really tactical. You just sit around bombing guys with powers and shooting when you cant use powers.

The engineer is more tactical. You pull people up from cover using your drone and then unload on them. You strip defenses with Incinerate and Overload, which is straightforward, but you can hack an enemy synthetic that is without defenses (and dominate an organic if you take that as a bonus talent). So your strategies are not quite as straightforward.

A typical battle might go like this:

- Assess the battlefield to see what enemy seems to have the most dangerous attack (ie something like a rocket shooting guy).
- Use your combat drone on that guy to get him up from cover.
- Use your allies' powers plus your gun (drone has you on a short cooldown at this point) to strip defenses off the guy you just used the drone on.
- Once you have the guy down to just health, quickly throw an AI Hack or Dominate on him. 
- While the hacked guy starts rocketing his allies, those allies will get out of cover and shoot him. You can now order your squad to just fire at will on the enemies because they will be out of cover and shooting their ally, not you. Damage will get done extremely quickly.
- Use AI Hack/Dominate on another enemy or two as they start to get their defenses stripped off to keep the fire away from you. EIther that, or use your cooldown for a combat drone to distract any guy that is still shooting at you instead of the hacked guy.

To me, this is a much more tactical experience. You must leverage your allies powers and shooting ability to get the most out of it, it involves knowing what enemies are dangerous and therefore what is best to hack/dominate, and you are tactically controlling the battlefield instead of just throwing powers out there whenever you can. 


So if you want power go Sentinel, if you want a tactical experience with a character that will still be quite good, go Engineer.

[SmilingMirror]

Yeah, I sorta do . But since there seems to be so relatively little
talk about or praise for the engineer (at least people talk about the
adept - if only to say she sucks on insanity), I just wanted to make
sure I didn't get stuck with a horribly underpowered and boring class.

Nope, the people complaining are really just Adepts on an ego trip because they can't stand having to remove defenses before flinging things in the air.

People see Engineer and think it has the same problems since its a caster class but I think its got alot of things going for it.


Edit: Sentinel to me is more the "I'll sit here and make your life difficult while you come over to me" -class. You have to remember a few things and use the right tools, but otherwise your kicking ass.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 09 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Looy]

Sentinel is insanely powerful, they have Warp for Anti-Barrier and Anti-Armor and Overload for Anti-Shield. Tech Armor makes them ridiculously hard to kill and it knocks people down when its destroyed so you can actually bum rush people quite effectively as sentinel.

Engineer is good too, certainly not underpowered. They are good against everything except barriers and the Drone and AI hacking causes a lot of chaos. I have a level 10 Engy at the moment and I find it's best to respec frequently depending on the mission, you won't need AI hacking versus Krogan, but you won't need incinerate versus geth.

EDIT: Also, bonus talents: For the sentinal you should probably go with Energy Drain or Reave (depending on enemy) while the engineer should probably go with Dominate or some kind of protection power.

Modifié par Looy, 09 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[themaxzero]

I prefer the Engineer because Sentinel takes too long to get good. Engineer is good from level 1. Drones make almost all boss enemies a complete joke no matter what difficulty level.

Modifié par themaxzero, 09 février 2010 - 09:45 .

[Miths]

Great explanation lessthanjake9 - you've sold me on the engineer . I didn't know about dominate at all - good to know that you aren't stuck with a power that only works in half or less than half the battles in the game.

Edit: Okay, I thought Dominate might be one of the rank 4 options for AI Hacking (not that that really makes a whole lot of sense), but it sounds like it's the bonus power from Morinth? I went with Samara for my current playthrough.

Modifié par Miths, 09 février 2010 - 10:05 .

[lessthanjake9]

Miths wrote...

Great explanation lessthanjake9 - you've sold me on the engineer . I didn't know about dominate at all - good to know that you aren't stuck with a power that only works in half or less than half the battles in the game.

Edit: Okay, I thought Dominate might be one of the rank 4 options for AI Hacking (not that that really makes a whole lot of sense), but it sounds like it's the bonus power from Morinth? I went with Samara for my current playthrough.

If you have a previous save somewhere before you did Samara's loyalty quest, you can load that game and take Morinth. If you choose Morinth once, you will always have the option to take Dominate as a bonus talent with a new character. You dont have to finish the game or anything with Morinth either. Just get her in your party briefly on an old save.

The only problem is if you do not have a save near there, or you do but you dont have the paragon/renegade points to get her. In that case, you're somewhat up a creek. You would basically have to go through the game again and get Morinth (again you only need to get her for a second. YOu can always just get her, and then reload and get Samara and keep playing. It will work). That's the only way you could do that build. I think that's the best way to go for an Engineer though, so if you are willing to do two more playthroughs, just do something else and get Morinth before you do the Engineer.

[Miths]

I'll dig through my save games, but I save frequently, so I suspect the 50(?) saves might all be from after I did Samara's quest.

How high does your paragon/renegade score have to be to get Morinth? I might have just as good a chance of getting her on my engineer playthrough anyway as I did with my current soldier.

[lessthanjake9]

Miths wrote...

I'll dig through my save games, but I save frequently, so I suspect the 50(?) saves might all be from after I did Samara's quest.
How high does your paragon/renegade score have to be to get Morinth? I might have just as good a chance of getting her on my engineer playthrough anyway as I did with my current soldier.

I'm not entirely sure how high it has to be actually. I got her, but didn't really pay attention at the time. I have heard it is pretty high though. Does anyone else know how high the paragon/renegade scores must be to get Morinth?


You could definitely just get Morinth on your engineer playthrough as well if you are cool with playing without dominate until that point. I would make sure to get heavy either paragon or renegade after this point in your playthrough if that's your plan though, just to make sure you can. Also, maybe respec before you do that mission to get Mechanic to get the +100% paragon/renegade points boost. You can just respec back after it is done.

[amrose2]

Agree with most of the above posters. Sentinel is more the "I can handle pretty much anything on my own" class that uses multiple powers more often.

Engineers are more about using your team to finish things off while you CC the enemy. Your drones push enemies out of their cover, or keep elite creatures busy.

It might take some time to get into the Engineer playstyle. For a while I was bored with it because I had just come from a Sentinel and was too used to being invincible. Learn to use the Drones, and its really hilarious the things you can do at times.

lessthanjake9 wrote...
You could definitely just get Morinth
on your engineer playthrough as well if you are cool with playing
without dominate until that point. I would make sure to get heavy either
paragon or renegade after this point in your playthrough if that's your
plan though, just to make sure you can. Also, maybe respec before you
do that mission to get Mechanic to get the +100% paragon/renegade points
boost. You can just respec back after it is done.

I suspect the Demolisher rank is bugged. The description says you should still get a paragon/renegade boost but it stays the same as rank 3, 75%. In addition, the Mechanic rank doesn't say you are trading off for more either.

Modifié par amrose2, 09 février 2010 - 12:12 .

[Gocad]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

Miths wrote...

I'll dig through my save games, but I save frequently, so I suspect the 50(?) saves might all be from after I did Samara's quest.
How high does your paragon/renegade score have to be to get Morinth? I might have just as good a chance of getting her on my engineer playthrough anyway as I did with my current soldier.

I'm not entirely sure how high it has to be actually. I got her, but didn't really pay attention at the time. I have heard it is pretty high though. Does anyone else know how high the paragon/renegade scores must be to get Morinth?

I think you may need 4 bars (80%) full to be able to use all 3 paragon/renegade choices...I did that quest with about 65-70% Paragon score and couldn't use the 3rd "Surprise!" choice....so I had no chance to decide whom to help. Bye bye Morinth.

[Miths]

I've enjoyed my soldier playthrough (my main class in ME1 as well), but I'm looking for a second playthrough where I don't regularly feel that I could almost have left my squad mates on the Normandy.

Sounds like engineer fits that bill much better than the sentinel.



I hope I can find two or three squad mates I can use most of the time. I haven't really been too fond of the whole swapping in and out thing depending on the mission (outside of the loyalty missions, which were pretty much all great) - or at least feeling that's what I ought to do.

I'm hoping I might be able to do well as a crowd control engineer using Garrus and Grunt or Garrus and Miranda in most missions - with Tali standing in for one of them in mech/geth heavy missions.

[Jaekahn]

I've played both and I particularly enjoy the Engineer class. I played my first two playthroughs as an Infiltrator consecutively and on both runs, I rarely paid attention to squad combosition. It was simply a heavy sniper experience with a tactical edge via cloak. When I picked Sentinel, I was hoping for a more tactical experience as well. However, the playstyle simply doesn't suit me. Whereas Sentinel can take the damage, which is truly beneficial in Insanity, it lacks in offensive power.



So then I chose Engineer and I must say, it has become my favorite class in both games. The strategies vary per level. Since your powers are limited to tech, you must choose your squad carefully (IE, Legion and Tali is probably not the best bet for Thane's recruit mission with all the shielded mercs.) You have the micromanage your entire squad and which gives you an edge in combat. The drone is simply remarkable. At times it may die swiftly, but it provides you just enough time to pull something off. To sum things up, an Engineer as an entirely different experience in combat than any other class I've played. The only class that can come close to its playstyle is an Adept (which I think is inferior since Engineer's powers focus on removing shields, thus making it easier to kill the target when they're in the red.)



PS, running around with two drones in some levels is fun as hell, espacially if you release them on the same mob. They get confused as hell.

[Jaekahn]

Miths wrote...

I've enjoyed my soldier playthrough (my main class in ME1 as well), but I'm looking for a second playthrough where I don't regularly feel that I could almost have left my squad mates on the Normandy.
Sounds like engineer fits that bill much better than the sentinel.

I hope I can find two or three squad mates I can use most of the time. I haven't really been too fond of the whole swapping in and out thing depending on the mission (outside of the loyalty missions, which were pretty much all great) - or at least feeling that's what I ought to do.
I'm hoping I might be able to do well as a crowd control engineer using Garrus and Grunt or Garrus and Miranda in most missions - with Tali standing in for one of them in mech/geth heavy missions.

My playstyle in my hardcore run is more focused on stripping armor via overload / Incinerate. I maxed out the Tech specialty, choosing Demolisher for the increase power damage, Combat Drone (Explosive), Heavy incinerate and Heavy overload. I found that its particularly easy when you run around with someone that has biotic powers, preferably someone with warp. For example, I've brought Miranda to almost every mission mainly because she has overload and warp. In a mission that has mostly organics, I found that Jacob's a reliable third since he is able to set up a warp explosion once I am done stripping the armor.

If you want to focus on crowd control, then you'll probably want to pick Cryoblast and AI Hacking. If you do that, then it would be wise to take Garrus or Miranda with you for Heavy Overload. Mordin can be helpful against organics and armor via Incinerate and Neural Shock. I found that this type of playstyle is more beneficial if you unlock the dominate bonus power by picking Morinth over Samara.

[SonsofNorthWind]

I find AP ammo with an Avenger to be the best bet for Engineer on Insanity. Dominate is a solid choice, but my style mainly involves spamming Explosive Drones and shooting the enemy in the back - I find that on Insanity killing enemies armor and health 70% faster to be worth more to me than converting enemies who are down to health into allies. Drones = defense, Avenger = DPS, Overload / Incinerate = burst damage, Incinerate arcs = long range offense.



One thing you will find about combat drones, if you're used to Tali, is that the recharge is extremely low. Tali's combat drone for some reason takes an abysmal 30 seconds to recharge, while yours takes 3. This opens up a whole different world of opportunities for the Drone.

[coinop25]

Engineer is definitely the tactical choice between these. You really need to be aware of who you're bringing with you in your squad. I try to bring along at least one person to handle barriers and/or crowd control, and at least one person who will be doing the major weapon damage. And while you might think Engineer would totally be able to solo any mission against mechs or geth, mechs require concentrated firepower, and geth require crowd control. (I really like the camo'd geth hunters in this game. The geth are more than just cannon fodder this time around.)



I have respec'd by Engineer three or four times now, and find myself pleased with this setup:



Explosive Drone

Area Incinerate

Heavy Overload

Tech Mastery Demolisher

AP Ammo (not full)

Assault Rifle bonus skill



The rest of the points are kind of negotiable for me. I don't feel I need a whole ton in AP ammo because I am spamming drones and incinerates for my major damage. Currently I have only 1 point in Cryo Blast and AI Hacking just for the fun of it, but I never found myself using either much before when I had more points in them. I am preferring Heavy Overload over Area because Incinerate seems to work just as well on organics' shields, and my bigger concern is the shielding on heavy mechs and big geth. Area Incinerate is pretty great, though, as it makes groups of organics pause to put out the flames. Freezing people seems kind of redundant with that and with distracting them with a drone, and you get a better shot on targets who are standing (or hopping around on fire) anyway.

[SonsofNorthWind]

One other entertaining Engineer bit - melee strikes cause a stagger similar to drone attacks. Meleeing an enemy who is a drone target can equal lockdown.

[Shipwr3K]

Gocad wrote...

lessthanjake9 wrote...

Miths wrote...

I'll dig through my save games, but I save frequently, so I suspect the 50(?) saves might all be from after I did Samara's quest.
How high does your paragon/renegade score have to be to get Morinth? I might have just as good a chance of getting her on my engineer playthrough anyway as I did with my current soldier.

I'm not entirely sure how high it has to be actually. I got her, but didn't really pay attention at the time. I have heard it is pretty high though. Does anyone else know how high the paragon/renegade scores must be to get Morinth?

I think you may need 4 bars (80%) full to be able to use all 3 paragon/renegade choices...I did that quest with about 65-70% Paragon score and couldn't use the 3rd "Surprise!" choice....so I had no chance to decide whom to help. Bye bye Morinth.

you need around 4 bars and a half. 

[lazorexplosion]

I've played a sentinel, it was good but I think an engineer will be more fun because explosive combat drone will be more interesting than tech armor. AI hacking is indeed excellent (used it on an infiltrator), the distraction and damage of having enemies fight each other is so good, and it only needs one point to be effective!

[lessthanjake9]

One thing is, I think people do not think a Dominate Engineer would be good because they judge Dominate based on AI Hacking. I think it should be noted that Dominate is about 100x better a power than AI Hacking for a few reasons:

1. There are more organics than sythetics in the game, so obviously Dominate is more useful for that reason.

2. More importantly, synthetic enemies do not use cover. So AI Hacking does not pull them out of cover. All it does is pull aggro away from you, indirectly damage the enemy you used it on, and have that enemy hurt his allies. That makes it a fairly good power still, but Dominate adds a whole new dimension. Organic enemies will take cover. Dominate one of them and they will pop up from cover, allowing you to unload on them in a way you couldnt have before. You can always unload on Synthetic targets like that, so AI Hacking does not have this extremely beneficial result. 

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 10 février 2010 - 10:36 .

[themaxzero]

I don't generally get Dominate for my Engineer simply because I do have Drone. Why whittle an enemies defense down just to Dominate him? Cast Drone and he is under your control (for a few seconds at least) regardless of protection. There are not too many situations where I couldn't use 2 Drones to match one Dominate.

[lessthanjake9]

themaxzero wrote...


I don't generally get Dominate for my Engineer simply because I do have Drone. Why whittle an enemies defense down just to Dominate him? Cast Drone and he is under your control (for a few seconds at least) regardless of protection. There are not too many situations where I couldn't use 2 Drones to match one Dominate.

I dont think the drone draws aggro as well as a Dominate does. The drone obviously draws aggro from the target, but not as well from everything else, I believe. Thus, you can't completely unload on the enemy that is out of cover because everything else will be shooting you. If you dominate something, suddenly virtually all aggro is not on you AND everything is out of cover. You can unload on stuff with no fear of being shot.

Dont get me wrong, Combat Drone is great. But for groups of enemies, Dominate really outdoes the drone in every way. The CC is better because you draw A LOT of fire away from you, rather than 1 or 2 guys' fire and because it lasts longer (it takes longer to kill the Dominated thing than the drone). It does more damage because the Dominated guy will get killed without you touching him AND do lots of damage himself. And it allows you to do more damage because it will draw more stuff out of cover while keeping more fire away from you. So it is the superior CC weapon for groups, while Combat Drone is the ultimate CC weapon for strong single targets as its low cooldown and ability to work on enemies with defenses makes it the perfect weapon to lock down a single target.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 10 février 2010 - 12:06 .

[SuperVaderMan]

Cryo blast is actually EXTREMELY useful. It's saved my arse more times than I can count from charging enemies (damn krogans). Oh and, get this, it kills husks INSTANTLY!