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[Lotion Soronarr]

DA:O is an awesome game, one of the best games I ever played. Bioware made progress in character and story building, and they should continue on this route. But there are some things where it feels liek they're going backwards. I'll list some musing and sugegstions for potential improvements.


Material and items scaling. The whole loot system in general.
It sux. Why? It feels so forces, so artificial..it's so predictable. For example, lets take BG2 - you could find a weapon or armor even early in the game (if you're lucky/skilled enough) that would be usefull tull the end of the game. It didn't feel scaled. It felt real.
The material tier system is terrible and makes NO sense whatsoever. Why do materials progress in such a linear fashion? Why 7 tiers? Why not have 3 tiers, but have 2 materials in each tier? And give different materials actually different properties. Different pros and cons. Why not make silverite have better armor penetration, but dragonbone being lighter (in a weapon)? Or having silverite have better armor rating, but having a bigger fatigue drain? To actually have to choose.
As it is now, it makes no sense.
And le'ts not even get started on the items level restrictions, only here it's done trough "forced" attributes. Cosmeticly different, but functionally the same. What the hel ldoes my level have to do with me being able to use a sword? And for the love of the Maker - how come I cna swing an IRON sword around, but am not strong enough to lift a STEEL one? Last time I checked, iron is heavier!

Arrtibute System
So we start out as a healthy, trained individual. Our warrior starts with a scale armor - an IRON scale armor - but cannpt wear a steel one? Cannot lift a dragonbone sword (despite it being supposedly very light...which is realisticly a good choice for armor, but a bad one for swrods)?
How much is 15 Strength anyway? No cap whatsoever? We can become infinetly strong?
Combined with redicolous item restriczion, the effet you get is the same as most MMO's or Diablo - "hey, you got the sword of Doom! Too bad you have to be lvl 50 to use it..SUCKA!! Grind some more!"
D&D did a lot of thinhs wrong, but one thing it got RIGHT were the attributes and how it workes. The numbers coud use tweaking, but the principle is sound.


Creature Scaling
Counter intuitive and limited. Why..WHY? Why have a different set of rules for enemies? Why can't you simply have enemies follow the same rules as the player? If you want stronger enemies or some scaling, there are many ways it can be done far more sensibly. Enemies being goverend by the very same rules as you does so much for atmosphere.
In BG2, if I fought some lesser human boss, he didn't have redicolous stats. If he's not wearing heavy armor, he won't have redicolous armor rating/damage reduction (I'm looking at you Howe!!!)
What you see is what you get. It's only sensible.



More Dynamic Party Banter
One of the best thing about DA:O is the party. We all love their banters. But they feel kinda lifeless. If at least some were cutscenes, with the party members actually properly emoting and posturing, it would be so much better.
Just imagine one of hte Alistar-Oghren banters taking place in a taverin, the party sitting and drinking, or something like that.
But it doesn't realyl have to go that far.
Jsut the party member stopping and emoting a bit more would add much to the atmosphere.

Gah..sorry for the short and garbled post. I'd write in more detail, but I'm pressed hard for time ATM.

[soteria]

Materials: Sure, it would be cool to have more interesting choices about what items to equip.



Attribute System: Disagree. Sounds like the typical DnD complaint about realism in stats, which doesn't even really apply to DnD if you consider 16 str above average, and you can reach 40. Stat requirements for gear is a good thing, because it stops you from trivializing the game with good gear, especially by players who know where the "good stuff" is.



Creature Scaling: Disagree. Level scaling is good because without it, I feel forced to play the game in a certain order or risk out-levelling content. Then it just becomes boring. It enhances player choice, really. I'm not sure what you're talking about with Howe. I would put his armor at around 20-25? That's very doable with light armor.



Party Banter: Sure, more is always better, hard to disagree, but this sounds less like a mistake in execution than a request for "moar."

[ModerateOsprey]

I agree completely on the party interactions. I would like more and more of this.



Good post.



I would also like to see some interaction after fights. Not sure how it could be implemented. An example was I had an epic fight and I saved party member from near death by dealing the final blow. Some stat showing this and a slap on the back or a kiss and maybe a little cut scene of my player if I should be saved, perhaps based on approval stat. I am sure I could think of lots and lots of other things, but I time short as well.



May return later.

[Lotion Soronarr]

soteria wrote...
Attribute System: Disagree. Sounds like the typical DnD complaint about realism in stats, which doesn't even really apply to DnD if you consider 16 str above average, and you can reach 40. Stat requirements for gear is a good thing, because it stops you from trivializing the game with good gear, especially by players who know where the "good stuff" is.

Eh? Since when can you reach 40 in D&D? 18 is pretty much the highest.
Stat requirements is a GOOD thing, but done RIGHT. You had stat requirements in D&D too, or had mods that made it way better. What this has is escalating requirements combined with escalating gear. Makes. No. sense. whatsoever.
And this approach trivializes your gear even more. There's no suspense, no wonder. When you get a good steel sword, you already know you're gonna get a dragonbone one later, that will be infinetly superior in every way.
there's no incentive to keep any of the earlier stuff. At all.
When I played BG half of my items were odler stuff and were still pulling their weight by the end game.

Creature Scaling: Disagree. Level scaling is good because without it, I feel forced to play the game in a certain order or risk out-levelling content. Then it just becomes boring. It enhances player choice, really. I'm not sure what you're talking about with Howe. I would put his armor at around 20-25? That's very doable with light armor.

Howe has abillion hit poitns and massive armor reduction.
And apprently, you have a very narrow view on balancing and scaling.
Insted of linearly scaling creatures, why not change the type of creature with level? Or change their gear?
And why have separate set of rules for them?

[soteria]

Eh? Since when can you reach 40 in D&D? 18 is pretty much the highest.

Maybe in 2E, but it's still not true then. You can start with 19, IIRC, and can get up to 25 with items in BG2. In the NWN games I think +12 is the hard cap on stat bonuses, and it's not really hard to reach (harder in NWN2).

What this has is escalating requirements combined with escalating gear. Makes. No. sense. whatsoever.

I don't even know what you mean by this. Are you surprised that both gear and stat requirements go up as you go along? I said why that's a good thing in my first response--it stops you from using uber gear at low levels.

There's no suspense, no wonder. When you get a good steel sword, you already know you're gonna get a dragonbone one later, that will be infinetly superior in every way.

...You mean the suspense of looting an item at a low level, and thinking "Wow, I bet I NEVER get anything better than this!" Uhuh. Besides, this isn't even accurate, because some low-tier items are amazing, and don't get replaced until the end of the game, if at all.

When I played BG half of my items were odler stuff and were still pulling their weight by the end game.

That was a complaint I had about BG. Getting new loot was very boring because everything I had was better. You say you liked that? Ok.

Howe has abillion hit poitns and massive armor reduction.

You realize this forum is supposed to be spoiler-free? Howe is a pushover that happens to have combat stealth and two mages healing him. The only challenge in that fight is trying to kill the mages while they're healing each other. You're full of BS if you really think he has "a billion" HP and massive armor--I don't think he even survived through an overwhelm last time I brought Dog to that fight.

And apprently, you have a very narrow view on balancing and scaling.

Insted of linearly scaling creatures, why not change the type of creature with level? Or change their gear?

Not sure what the first sentence is supposed to mean, but whatever. Uh, change the creature type? So, if I would normally fight a group of dwarves in Orzammar, you're suggesting, maybe... Elder Rabid Nugs? Their gear does change. At low levels you'll see human enemies in Iron/Steel, later it's Dragonbone or Silverite (which looks almost identical to Steel. Red Steel looks a lot like Dragonbone).

And why have separate set of rules for them?

They don't? If you've been paying attention, you would know that changing the rules for archery for the PC also changes the rules for NPC and enemy archers. Did you do research before posting this? There are only a few things that are applied differently to players... no shattering, no mana clash for enemies, AoS treats you as an elite boss, etc.

[soteria]

Oh, I just killed him again, and figured out why you think he's so hard--he has Evasion.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]soteria wrote...


[quote]Eh? Since when can you reach 40 in D&D? 18 is pretty much the highest.[/quote]

Maybe in 2E, but it's still not true then. You can start with 19, IIRC, and can get up to 25 with items in BG2. In the NWN games I think +12 is the hard cap on stat bonuses, and it's not really hard to reach (harder in NWN2).
[/quote]

You're right. 19 with stat bonuses for a reace (Dex for elves and Con for dwarves I belive).
But 19 IS the NATRAL cap. I'm not counting item boosts.




[quote]
I don't even know what you mean by this. Are you surprised that both gear and stat requirements go up as you go along? I said why that's a good thing in my first response--it stops you from using uber gear at low levels.[/quote]

And why is that a good thing? You're not likely to have uber gear at low levels.
And what's hte explanation for it? Why can I lift a iron sword, but not a dragonbone one? Not to mention that DA:O (thankfully) doesn't have huge differences in base gear power (some games have differences in an order of magniute. DA:O difference in starting and end gear is roughly twice as powerfull. )



[quote]
You realize this forum is supposed to be spoiler-free? Howe is a pushover that happens to have combat stealth and two mages healing him. The only challenge in that fight is trying to kill the mages while they're healing each other. You're full of BS if you really think he has "a billion" HP and massive armor--I don't think he even survived through an overwhelm last time I brought Dog to that fight. [/quote]

Offical statistics dispute your claim. Litenant and boss monsters have beefed up HP and armor. That's straight from the game files..it's in the 2da's.
When I played it took me and AL whailing on him for a while, with mage support, before he fell. If the damage done is any indication, he had more than 1000HP. That's not humany attainable for the PC.



[quote]And apprently, you have a very narrow view on balancing and scaling.
Insted of linearly scaling creatures, why not change the type of creature with level? Or change their gear?[/quote]

Not sure what the first sentence is supposed to mean, but whatever. Uh, change the creature type? So, if I would normally fight a group of dwarves in Orzammar, you're suggesting, maybe... Elder Rabid Nugs? Their gear does change. At low levels you'll see human enemies in Iron/Steel, later it's Dragonbone or Silverite (which looks almost identical to Steel. Red Steel looks a lot like Dragonbone).
[/quote]

You're talking about different areas, insted of changed scaling within a specific area. Yes, different creatures or numbers where applicable.
I enter an area at lvl5 and I fight a few Genlocks. I enter it at lvl 10 and now there's 2 alpha's with them. I enter it at lvl 20 and there's 2 Ogre's...or not.