245 réponses à ce sujet

[Fulgrim88]

Arrtis wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Did we need to go to Illos?If we stayed in Citadel we could have taken saren down before he took over.Although not sure how reaper fight would have went.

I think we need Vigils data file

Isnt that just so you could take back control over citadel?
If your there in the first place control would never had been lost.
Or did it do something more?
If im right then liara wouldnt be that important.

IIRC, prior to Ilos, nobody was certain what the Conduit really was. Not even Sovereign, or there would have been no need to send Saren after it. He could have easily opened the Citadel w/o ever leaving or becoming a rogue spectre. It was a nice way to beam some geth onto the Presidium though.
Shepard was also unaware and mainly followed Saren to prevent ill-use of the Conduit, which was believed to be some sort of weapon, thereby discovering Vigil and learning the real story

As for On-Topic: The OP pretty much nailed it down. Miranda seems a bit out of place there, but she's kinda vital with leading the Lazarus Project. Could as well have been someone else though and in any case Whatshisname...the betrayer-guy did most of the actual sciencework. I take it she was merely supervising

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 09 février 2010 - 04:40 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Now for some more serious contributors. Anyone have any counter arguments? I'm curious what everyone thinks?

Technically speaking any of the biotics that can do the bubble sequence can be marked in that section, so what if a squaddie dies in the process, they knew the risks when the job was taken.

Specially as you haven't flagged Jacob who without his armor upgrade, someone would die and garrus who without his gun upgrade someone would die.

One other thing... Ashley/Kaiden - whom without one of their sacrifices, Saren's genophage cure would've continued on.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 09 février 2010 - 04:41 .

[Arrtis]

Barquiel wrote...

Soldier989 wrote...

Legion

Why?

he saves shep from being killed by husks on the dead reaper?

[DigitalMaster37]

ShadowWolf_Kell wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't like Liara. At all.

But i agree. She plays an extremely vital role in the trilogy, and I believe she will, as she should, be a teammate and big player in ME3.

Also, Tali.

Was the "I don't like Liara. At all" necessary. Had I said anything remotely close to Tali hate, you would have called me something. I don't care who is anyone's favorite, I just care what you idea is on who is most vital. Glad you can be rational though as far as your other points though.

Actually, I added that to show that I'm being honest, not biased about a favorite character.

Okay let me help you out. Yeah I love Liara, but you have just become a victim of what you recently posted in a Anti Tali hate thread. You just attacked Liara by adding negativity and taking a stab at her simply because you think I am being bias.

You are wrong, I would say this if Liara wasn't my favorite. Again though I am glad you seen clearly with your second statement.

It's a shame this LI hate will never stop. You being a Tali fan should no better than to throw around hate, but I guess my thoughts about you were correct to begin with...

I've yet to see anything you have stated within this thread to NOT ooze complete bias.  You've had no objectivity whatsoever and your tirade about Liara hate by Tali fans and whatnot just illustrates that.

As for me, I view most of the characters as expendable plot devices to add flavor and fluff to the story.  None of them are essential, and plays pretty much the same regardless of who you play with.

Personally I enjoy Garrus and Mordin the most.  If they don't make it into ME3, I'm not going to go all emo and slit my wrists.  The game is centered around Shepard.  The other characters are just fillers.

no offense meant by this next statement. What you just said is delusional at best. You can't believe that even if you wanted to. I am Liara bias, but my arguments here are not biased. I thought about this for a long while and then decided to post it. Liara is without question THE most vital member of the team. Sadly because I like her a lot I get labeled as biased and I am not. If I fudged anything in my arguments above I jump out of a window. Everything is either in game for you to see for yourself or in the comic book series. Everything I have said. I am adding nothing to it (which is what a bias person would do).

If you don't like Liara then that is one thing, but don't discount facts about her. You seem to be delusional and I don;t know where it is coming from. I not trying to recruit Liara fans, I just made a topic to talk about who everyone think the most vital character is. I am not trying to start a war. I am against such things.

[SonicMisfit]

There was some value added by the squadmates providing the upgrades to the Normandy.



Garrus - Thanix Cannon

Tali - Multicore Shielding

Jacob - Heavy Ship Armor



All of these contributed to the completion of the mission in ME2 as far as who survives to fight in the final battle.

[DigitalMaster37]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't like Liara. At all.

But i agree. She plays an extremely vital role in the trilogy, and I believe she will, as she should, be a teammate and big player in ME3.

Also, Tali.

Was the "I don't like Liara. At all" necessary. Had I said anything remotely close to Tali hate, you would have called me something. I don't care who is anyone's favorite, I just care what you idea is on who is most vital. Glad you can be rational though as far as your other points though.

Actually, I added that to show that I'm being honest, not biased about a favorite character.

Okay let me help you out. Yeah I love Liara, but you have just become a victim of what you recently posted in a Anti Tali hate thread. You just attacked Liara by adding negativity and taking a stab at her simply because you think I am being bias.

You are wrong, I would say this if Liara wasn't my favorite. Again though I am glad you seen clearly with your second statement.

It's a shame this LI hate will never stop. You being a Tali fan should no better than to throw around hate, but I guess my thoughts about you were correct to begin with...

...I didn't attack Liara at all? She's a good character, I just don't like her. Just like Ashley. I didn't say you were being biased. I said I was pointing out that I agree with you DESPITE bias.

You really need to calm down. I didn't say Liara sucks. I didn't say she should be killed off, or should be an npc.

I just said I didn't like her. That's it. There's plenty of people who don't like Tali, but aren't necessarily "hating" on her.

You need to see difference between "hate" and "differing opinion".

Just so you know, I am in no way angry or up in arms, I can't show my expression when typing so I come in peace.
I am just saying that I thought your initial statement was so unecessary and thats it. I am in no way negatively affected by your opinion, but given the topic of this thread any LI hate statements are unwarranted and trust me I would defend Tali too. As a matter of a fact I have already on numerous occasions. I don't hate Tali, she is not my favorite member, but what would be the point of me stating that here in this thread? That's all I am saying.

Again, me stating my personal bias, and then stating my actual opinion in spite of said bias was intended to strengthen the argument that Liara is important, regardless of personal opinion. I can't make it much clearer.

Though we agree, so...I am not sure what we are "fighting" about. lol

Again, I am not fighting. For what you said I have a great respect for you. There you have it, I'll rescind my accusation of you.

[Arrtis]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Did we need to go to Illos?If we stayed in Citadel we could have taken saren down before he took over.Although not sure how reaper fight would have went.

I think we need Vigils data file

Isnt that just so you could take back control over citadel?
If your there in the first place control would never had been lost.
Or did it do something more?
If im right then liara wouldnt be that important.

IIRC, prior to Ilos, nobody was certain what the Conduit really was. Not even Sovereign, or there would have been no need to send Saren after it. He could have easily opened the Citadel w/o ever leaving or becoming a rogue spectre. It was a nice way to beam some geth onto the Presidium though.
Shepard was also unaware and mainly followed Saren to prevent ill-use of the Conduit, which was believed to be some sort of weapon, thereby discovering Vigil and learning the real story

and he failed to stop saren...even without the confirmation on the real story your grounded on the citadel you could ahve been there to stop saren.*if you didnt steal the normandy*
Then after you get killed by collectors TIM could have filled you in.

[DigitalMaster37]

Shavon wrote...

Ok, so Liara gets credit for beginning the project, which would not happen without her (and dopey Feron), and TIM gets credit for the funding. I meant to imply that in a roundabout sort of way. We are totally on the same page, Delta, I just meant that other have a part in supporting Shep one way or another throughout her (his) adventures.

Oh yeah I agree. And you are totally right in that everyone is important. I never meant to imply otherwise. I loved your comments about Shep not finishing the mission without Ashley as she couldn't go on without her LI. That waws good and true nonetheless, being an RPG there is a lot of roleplaying that is specific to our own characters.

[Fulgrim88]

Arrtis wrote...
and he failed to stop saren...even without the confirmation on the real story your grounded on the citadel you could ahve been there to stop saren.*if you didnt steal the normandy*
Then after you get killed by collectors TIM could have filled you in.

It was just luck that failing to stop Saren didn't have any more dire consequences. Following him to Ilos to try to prevent whatever he was up to was the logical step.
With hindsight you're right of course, but we didn't know at that time, neither did Saren

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 09 février 2010 - 04:44 .

[DigitalMaster37]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Now for some more serious contributors. Anyone have any counter arguments? I'm curious what everyone thinks?

Technically speaking any of the biotics that can do the bubble sequence can be marked in that section, so what if a squaddie dies in the process, they knew the risks when the job was taken.

Specially as you haven't flagged Jacob who without his armor upgrade, someone would die and garrus who without his gun upgrade someone would die.

One other thing... Ashley/Kaiden - whom without one of their sacrifices, Saren's genophage cure would've continued on.

you're right I forgot about that one. The sacrifice on Virmire counts heavily too. Great point.

[KainrycKarr]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't like Liara. At all.

But i agree. She plays an extremely vital role in the trilogy, and I believe she will, as she should, be a teammate and big player in ME3.

Also, Tali.

Was the "I don't like Liara. At all" necessary. Had I said anything remotely close to Tali hate, you would have called me something. I don't care who is anyone's favorite, I just care what you idea is on who is most vital. Glad you can be rational though as far as your other points though.

Actually, I added that to show that I'm being honest, not biased about a favorite character.

Okay let me help you out. Yeah I love Liara, but you have just become a victim of what you recently posted in a Anti Tali hate thread. You just attacked Liara by adding negativity and taking a stab at her simply because you think I am being bias.

You are wrong, I would say this if Liara wasn't my favorite. Again though I am glad you seen clearly with your second statement.

It's a shame this LI hate will never stop. You being a Tali fan should no better than to throw around hate, but I guess my thoughts about you were correct to begin with...

...I didn't attack Liara at all? She's a good character, I just don't like her. Just like Ashley. I didn't say you were being biased. I said I was pointing out that I agree with you DESPITE bias.

You really need to calm down. I didn't say Liara sucks. I didn't say she should be killed off, or should be an npc.

I just said I didn't like her. That's it. There's plenty of people who don't like Tali, but aren't necessarily "hating" on her.

You need to see difference between "hate" and "differing opinion".

Just so you know, I am in no way angry or up in arms, I can't show my expression when typing so I come in peace.
I am just saying that I thought your initial statement was so unecessary and thats it. I am in no way negatively affected by your opinion, but given the topic of this thread any LI hate statements are unwarranted and trust me I would defend Tali too. As a matter of a fact I have already on numerous occasions. I don't hate Tali, she is not my favorite member, but what would be the point of me stating that here in this thread? That's all I am saying.

Again, me stating my personal bias, and then stating my actual opinion in spite of said bias was intended to strengthen the argument that Liara is important, regardless of personal opinion. I can't make it much clearer.

Though we agree, so...I am not sure what we are "fighting" about. lol

Again, I am not fighting. For what you said I have a great respect for you. There you have it, I'll rescind my accusation of you.

You just totally warped my sense of reality.

What. The. Hell.

Also, I'd say overall Liara, Tali, and T.I.M. are the big three thus far.

[Barquiel]

Arrtis wrote...

and he failed to stop saren...even without the confirmation on the real story your grounded on the citadel you could ahve been there to stop saren.*if you didnt steal the normandy*
Then after you get killed by collectors TIM could have filled you in.

I don't know...

200,000 C-Sec officers couldn't stop Saren's first attack.

[Arrtis]

Barquiel wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

and he failed to stop saren...even without the confirmation on the real story your grounded on the citadel you could ahve been there to stop saren.*if you didnt steal the normandy*
Then after you get killed by collectors TIM could have filled you in.

I don't know...

200,000 C-Sec officers couldn't stop Saren's first attack.

spectres are worth more...C sec could barley handle any geth.

[aeetos21]

jenkins - without him our shields would've been shredded

[DigitalMaster37]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't like Liara. At all.

But i agree. She plays an extremely vital role in the trilogy, and I believe she will, as she should, be a teammate and big player in ME3.

Also, Tali.

Was the "I don't like Liara. At all" necessary. Had I said anything remotely close to Tali hate, you would have called me something. I don't care who is anyone's favorite, I just care what you idea is on who is most vital. Glad you can be rational though as far as your other points though.

Actually, I added that to show that I'm being honest, not biased about a favorite character.

Okay let me help you out. Yeah I love Liara, but you have just become a victim of what you recently posted in a Anti Tali hate thread. You just attacked Liara by adding negativity and taking a stab at her simply because you think I am being bias.

You are wrong, I would say this if Liara wasn't my favorite. Again though I am glad you seen clearly with your second statement.

It's a shame this LI hate will never stop. You being a Tali fan should no better than to throw around hate, but I guess my thoughts about you were correct to begin with...

...I didn't attack Liara at all? She's a good character, I just don't like her. Just like Ashley. I didn't say you were being biased. I said I was pointing out that I agree with you DESPITE bias.

You really need to calm down. I didn't say Liara sucks. I didn't say she should be killed off, or should be an npc.

I just said I didn't like her. That's it. There's plenty of people who don't like Tali, but aren't necessarily "hating" on her.

You need to see difference between "hate" and "differing opinion".

Just so you know, I am in no way angry or up in arms, I can't show my expression when typing so I come in peace.
I am just saying that I thought your initial statement was so unecessary and thats it. I am in no way negatively affected by your opinion, but given the topic of this thread any LI hate statements are unwarranted and trust me I would defend Tali too. As a matter of a fact I have already on numerous occasions. I don't hate Tali, she is not my favorite member, but what would be the point of me stating that here in this thread? That's all I am saying.

Again, me stating my personal bias, and then stating my actual opinion in spite of said bias was intended to strengthen the argument that Liara is important, regardless of personal opinion. I can't make it much clearer.

Though we agree, so...I am not sure what we are "fighting" about. lol

Again, I am not fighting. For what you said I have a great respect for you. There you have it, I'll rescind my accusation of you.

You just totally warped my sense of reality.

What. The. Hell.

Also, I'd say overall Liara, Tali, and T.I.M. are the big three thus far.

glad to be of service

[Mox Ruuga]

Larask wrote...

1) Liara: Without her, Shepard would have never found Illos. Also she was the one who recovered Shepard's body, so yeah she's very important.
2) Miranda: She also aided the search for Shepard's body, and then she was instrumental on the Lazarus Project.
3) Mordin: His help was essential on Horizon and beyond.

All the rest were also important, but they didn't have such vital roles as the ones above. Shepard could have completed her mission with others on their places, but definitely not w/t these three.

Yes.

One could also include the dead quarian above the rest of the squaddies, but she was only essential for one bit early on and never after that moment.

[Cutlass Jack]

Tali. Without her information I wouldn't have become a Spectre. I wold have failed before I ever started. She went on to provide critical info in ME2 and ME3 (Trust me, Dark Matter will be very important in 3) She's also essential for improving the Normandy 2 and removing from it any countermeasures TIM installed.

She's also had my back on the squad and been essential for two games solid now.

[Nozybidaj]

Liara without a doubt. I wouldn't have thought there would even be a debate about this. Without her you can't complete ME1 or even begin ME2.

[Cutlass Jack]

Shavon wrote...
Not necessarily ture, Kaidan would have gone down before Shepard:crying:

If you where playing FemShep, this might have happened anyways....

[Cutlass Jack]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Liara without a doubt. I wouldn't have thought there would even be a debate about this. Without her you can't complete ME1 or even begin ME2.

You wouldn't have known to go after Liara without Tali's recording of Matriarch Benezia. So Liara would have been doomed to starve to death floating in a bubble. (Which leads to some very funny moments if you wait a long time to free her from it....)

[ODST 3]

Liara sucks and she gets negative points for being so useless (a hindrance even) in ME 2. Sure she tells you about Thane and Samara but you could have asked around about them. Shepard is the most vital squad member.

[Mox Ruuga]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You wouldn't have known to go after Liara without Tali's recording of Matriarch Benezia. So Liara would have been doomed to starve to death floating in a bubble. (Which leads to some very funny moments if you wait a long time to free her from it....)

And the dead quarian would have died even earlier had Shepard not sought out Garrus, and found out about Fist from Dr. Michel.

It's thus obvious, Garrus and Dr. Michel are the most important people in Mass Effect by providing an important piece of information. Once.

[KainrycKarr]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You wouldn't have known to go after Liara without Tali's recording of Matriarch Benezia. So Liara would have been doomed to starve to death floating in a bubble. (Which leads to some very funny moments if you wait a long time to free her from it....)

And the dead quarian would have died even earlier had Shepard not sought out Garrus, and found out about Fist from Dr. Michel.

It's thus obvious, Garrus and Dr. Michel are the most important people in Mass Effect by providing an important piece of information. Once.

Your immature and spiteful personal bias is very cute. Like a child stomping his feet.