245 réponses à ce sujet

[Aynslie]

I'll go with Liara being number 1 on the fact that she points us to Ilos and gets our body to Cerberus.



For number 2 I'll go with Miranda for bringing Shepard back to life. Her usefulness to me ended there.



3. Mordin for the anti collector bug repellent.



As for the rest it depends on your preference because a lot are important in the end for ME2.

Tech Spec. Tali or Legion

Leader. Garrus or Miranda

Biotic barrier. Samara or Jack

[Arrtis]

Game only? she not needed.

havent read the books so i do not know for sure if she did something that only she could ahve done.

[DigitalMaster37]

Arrtis wrote...

Game only? she not needed.
havent read the books so i do not know for sure if she did something that only she could ahve done.

That is still no "proof" or "explanation". So until you give me that, I will overlook you logic as simply bias.

[Arrtis]

Without her you would have ran into saren and could have stopped him without the need of the program to get back citadel control*assuming thats all it did* memory fuzzy on some details but going to Illos wasnt needed if your already at the citadel.

Going to illos because you knew only enabled saren to move ahead of you.

if that makes any sense.

[Arrtis]

I do not have details on what happened in the book so i can not say how helpful she was there.And if there would have been a chance that someone else would have done whatever she did in the book.

[Mox Ruuga]

KainrycKarr wrote...


No, it's not, because i don't stomp my feet trying to spread my opinion that the character should be killed off out of "fairness". Nor am I calling people who romance Liara "freaky" in any way. That's just plain childish.

And you will likely call anything whatever you want because you make it rather clear your opinion and what you like is all that matters. That is what I would call "immature and stomping your feet".

Anyway, my point is made, both in regards to your silly spiteful attitude, and about Liara being the most integral side-character.

Nice, trying to put words in my mouth.

Have I said someone should be killed off due to fairness? Stop lying. I said I want no preferential treatment, ie. every LI gets two squaddie episodes, no more, no less, since three for everyone is an impossibility now. Practically a hate crime, I know.

As for the freakiness, I'm sorry, but Talimancers have earned that moniker all by yourselves. Stop making life sized Tali dolls, or wishing that Bioware made them. The constant obsession on full display is far beyond that of any other fan group. The label is a self-inflicted wound. No other character fandom embarasses itself so frequently on these forums.

As for "only my opinion mattering", cry moar. I haven't said that. Stop projecting and wallowing in delusions.

But do keep playing the part of the Quixotic Tali defender.

[DigitalMaster37]

Arrtis wrote...

Without her you would have ran into saren and could have stopped him without the need of the program to get back citadel control*assuming thats all it did* memory fuzzy on some details but going to Illos wasnt needed if your already at the citadel.
Going to illos because you knew only enabled saren to move ahead of you.
if that makes any sense.

Well to begin, thank you for posting a valid argument. Yet I have information that completely refutes it.

We obviously need Liara because before we met her, with Tali's info all we did at best was strip spectre status from Saren. BECAUSE of Liara we stayed on Saren's track. BECAUSE of Liara we found Ilos in enough time to remain on Saren's coat tails and make it to the Citadel in time to save the galaxy the 1st time.

If that is not enough, we then get blown out of space by the collectors. Tali, Garrus, Ashley, Kaiden nor Wrex are anywhere to be found searching for Shepherd, and if they are they are not close to finding him. Where is Liara???
because of her "skills" in finding things (given she is a prothean expert so she is a good search and secure person) she is right on the trail of Shepherd (both your's and mine) and she promplty secures Shepherds body (NOT cerberus, not the SB, not anyone but Liara).

Liara is indeed the sinlge most inportant or vital Squad member and NPC period in this game. Yup I said it. With ME1 and ME2, if you take out Liara, we are dead without a doubt.

[KainrycKarr]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...


No, it's not, because i don't stomp my feet trying to spread my opinion that the character should be killed off out of "fairness". Nor am I calling people who romance Liara "freaky" in any way. That's just plain childish.

And you will likely call anything whatever you want because you make it rather clear your opinion and what you like is all that matters. That is what I would call "immature and stomping your feet".

Anyway, my point is made, both in regards to your silly spiteful attitude, and about Liara being the most integral side-character.

Nice, trying to put words in my mouth.

Have I said someone should be killed off due to fairness? Stop lying. I said I want no preferential treatment, ie. every LI gets two squaddie episodes, no more, no less, since three for everyone is an impossibility now. Practically a hate crime, I know.

As for the freakiness, I'm sorry, but Talimancers have earned that moniker all by yourselves. Stop making life sized Tali dolls, or wishing that Bioware made them. The constant obsession on full display is far beyond that of any other fan group. The label is a self-inflicted wound. No other character fandom embarasses itself so frequently on these forums.

As for "only my opinion mattering", cry moar. I haven't said that. Stop projecting and wallowing in delusions.

But do keep playing the part of the Quixotic Tali defender.

Yeah, i'm gonna let your previous posts speak for themselves.

one person made that; they weren't even a member of this forum. a fellow tali fan brought it to the thread, and we made fun of it.

No, you haven't said it, though your constantly spiteful and hateful attitude has more than indicated it.

okay, I will.

[Cutlass Jack]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Liara is indeed the sinlge most inportant or vital Squad member and NPC period in this game. Yup I said it. With ME1 and ME2, if you take out Liara, we are dead without a doubt.

But if you take out Tali, Liara would be dead without a doubt. And a really embarassing death at that.

[Arrtis]

but you can get liara last and you end up tell her everything.

and if you got grounded you could have stopped saren from gaining control in the first place.

Not sure if liara and her mind meld convinced shep to tell the council what was happening or if the council found out and would have told you to report back anyways.

[DigitalMaster37]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Liara is indeed the sinlge most inportant or vital Squad member and NPC period in this game. Yup I said it. With ME1 and ME2, if you take out Liara, we are dead without a doubt.

But if you take out Tali, Liara would be dead without a doubt. And a really embarassing death at that.

Which points to Liara's importance even more. Thanks for proving my argument even more. Take Tali out and we're simply a little more inconvenienced that is all. Without Liara, your beloved tali would also be dead. So if you want to look at it from that standpoint, Tali needs Liara as much as Shepherd does.

Sorry buddy there is no way to refute truth. I know you love Tali, and I like her too, but she is clearly less important than Liara, any way you slice it.

[Mox Ruuga]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Yeah, i'm gonna let your previous posts speak for themselves.

So stop lying about them, whydoncha?

one person made that; they weren't even a member of this forum. a fellow tali fan brought it to the thread, and we made fun of it.

Another started a romance DLC thread about Tali, expressing an honest wish to acquire such a doll in it. Add to that the constant level of high obsession... lot of Talimancers are already making threats to Bioware about not buying the third game if she's not in it with a major part. Back in the old forum, that was called "wanting the game to be a creepy Japanese dating sim"...

No, you haven't said it, though your constantly spiteful and hateful attitude has more than indicated it.

Lol. If you say so...

okay, I will.

Good, more amusement for the rest of us. Keep tilting at those windmi-- I mean, nasty Tali haters!

[MisterShine]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
Sorry buddy there is no way to refute truth. I know you love Tali, and I like her too, but she is clearly less important than Liara, any way you slice it.

Except if there was no Tali, Saren probably would have never been stripped of his Spectre status, and thus Shepard would never be inducted into the spectres to go after him (He could never have completed the Noveria or Virmire missions without being a spectre in the first place), and so the entire galaxy would have gone to hell.

So, overall, I'd say Anderson/Liara/Tali all have critical places, remove any of them and say goodbye to the galaxy. So, tied then? 

[Frotality]

the traitorous shuttle pilot who jacked the whole combat trained crew of the normandy to go off and do nothing while the collectors abducted everyone is an important contribitor in the 'conveniently operating towards plot devices' villian department.

but yeah, liara is #1 the most important; tali couldve died and shep just takes her omni tool to fufill her role. wrex seems to be gearing up to be interesting part of the story, though of course not crucial; mordin pretty much makes the suicide mission possible, everyone else is just cannon fodder really.

really, only kaiden/ash and liara are the only contenders being the only ones who cant die; and thats no contest, considering the former HAS to have one die.

[Cutlass Jack]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Liara is indeed the sinlge most inportant or vital Squad member and NPC period in this game. Yup I said it. With ME1 and ME2, if you take out Liara, we are dead without a doubt.

But if you take out Tali, Liara would be dead without a doubt. And a really embarassing death at that.

Which points to Liara's importance even more. Thanks for proving my argument even more. Take Tali out and we're simply a little more inconvenienced that is all. Without Liara, your beloved tali would also be dead. So if you want to look at it from that standpoint, Tali needs Liara as much as Shepherd does.

Sorry buddy there is no way to refute truth. I know you love Tali, and I like her too, but she is clearly less important than Liara, any way you slice it.

Huh? that makes no sense at all.  Without Tali you'd never know to even look for Liara. You wouldn't be merely inconvenienced. You have no other path to the information that Mistress Benezia was involved. Hence you never would have gone looking for Liara.

Liara would either die in her bubble or (worse) the Krogan would have figured out a way through and brought her to Saren. She would have been indoctranated and helped Saren find the Conduit sooner.

[Statulos]

Legion clearly: the Geth are a culture that does not follow the path designed by the reapers and actually knows more about them than anyone else.
And well, a squadmate whose name comes from the Devil has a ton extra points for me.

Modifié par Statulos, 09 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[Mox Ruuga]

So the consensus is that it is someone between Liara, Tali, Miranda, and Mordin.

Who then is the most worthless? Let's disqualify Zaeed, the poor chap is DLC, he never had a chance. Also Morinth, she just a "bonus" squaddie.

I say Grunt or Thane. Neither of them have even important suicide mission tasks, let alone providing vital ship upgrades. Jacob at least helps you during your vulnerable post Lazarus moments. And has leadership qualities for the suicide mission.

[Barquiel]

MisterShine wrote...

So, overall, I'd say Anderson/Liara/Tali all have critical places, remove any of them and say goodbye to the galaxy.

+ Shiala; We need the cipher

[Divulse456]

For me, Tali is number 1. I loved Liara as a character, and her knowledge of the Protheans was, of course, very important to the main quest. But Tali also helped with evidence against Saren. Since both are so important it has to come down purely to character. Tali wins hands down. Liara was a hot fling. Tali suffered in silence while developing a true admiration of and affection for Shepard. Every galaxy saving hero needs a true love, and Tali even left the migrant fleet to be with him.

[DigitalMaster37]

MisterShine wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
Sorry buddy there is no way to refute truth. I know you love Tali, and I like her too, but she is clearly less important than Liara, any way you slice it.

Except if there was no Tali, Saren probably would have never been stripped of his Spectre status, and thus Shepard would never be inducted into the spectres to go after him (He could never have completed the Noveria or Virmire missions without being a spectre in the first place), and so the entire galaxy would have gone to hell.

So, overall, I'd say Anderson/Liara/Tali all have critical places, remove any of them and say goodbye to the galaxy. So, tied then? 

Not even close, but nice try. Without Tali it is very plausible that there would have been another way. Without Liara, Shepherd is dead. I like you all's attempts to prove me false, but it is not even close. I'm in no way saying Tali was unimportant, but comparing what each did, it is beyond clear that Tali was less of a vital contributor than Liara.

[DigitalMaster37]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Liara is indeed the sinlge most inportant or vital Squad member and NPC period in this game. Yup I said it. With ME1 and ME2, if you take out Liara, we are dead without a doubt.

But if you take out Tali, Liara would be dead without a doubt. And a really embarassing death at that.

Which points to Liara's importance even more. Thanks for proving my argument even more. Take Tali out and we're simply a little more inconvenienced that is all. Without Liara, your beloved tali would also be dead. So if you want to look at it from that standpoint, Tali needs Liara as much as Shepherd does.

Sorry buddy there is no way to refute truth. I know you love Tali, and I like her too, but she is clearly less important than Liara, any way you slice it.

Huh? that makes no sense at all.  Without Tali you'd never know to even look for Liara. You wouldn't be merely inconvenienced. You have no other path to the information that Mistress Benezia was involved. Hence you never would have gone looking for Liara.

Liara would either die in her bubble or (worse) the Krogan would have figured out a way through and brought her to Saren. She would have been indoctranated and helped Saren find the Conduit sooner.

But to assume that Tali was the only possible source to reveal Matriarch Benezia's involvement is a dream to say the least. Matriarch Benezia was revealed once you arrived at Noveria, so if Tali was not in the game, eventually you would have found out about Benezia which in turn would have revealed Liara which in turn would have brought us back to square one which is Liara's importance. You amaze me at your logic trying to shoehorn in Tali's importance as game breakin which is clearly is not.

[Cutlass Jack]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

So the consensus is that it is someone between Liara, Tali, Miranda, and Mordin.

Who then is the most worthless? Let's disqualify Zaeed, the poor chap is DLC, he never had a chance. Also Morinth, she just a "bonus" squaddie.

I say Grunt or Thane. Neither of them have even important suicide mission tasks, let alone providing vital ship upgrades. Jacob at least helps you during your vulnerable post Lazarus moments. And has leadership qualities for the suicide mission.

I'm not sure Mordin is that vital, though heaven help me I do love him. He's vital to my amusement level.

Sure he comes up with a way to stop the bugs, but in the endgame we learn a biotic shield would do the same thing. He does open up research options on the ship but that's a game mechanic thing really.

I'd agree Thane/Grunt aren't terribly essential to saving the galaxy. Wrex is far more critical as far as Krogan go, since uniting his people will likely play a huge part in the End battle vs. the Reapers.

[MisterShine]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
Without Tali it is very plausible that there would have been another way.

What way?

And saying that something else could've come up could just as easily be countered by saying that any other Asari could've done the Vulcan mind meld with Shepard to get the information Liara did.

edit:

Matriarch Benezia was revealed once you arrived at Noveria

And how would you even get on Noveria if you were never made a spectre in the first place

Modifié par MisterShine, 09 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[KainrycKarr]

@ Mox Ruuga

Not lying about your posts. Anyone who cares enough one way or the other will find 'em. Beyond that, I know what I read, and i stand by it.

The VAST majority of tali fans bashed on the dude about the doll. You are grossly over-generalizing for your own spiteful purposes and you know it.

I do say so, and I stand by it.

You have an interesting perception of reality.


In relevance to the actual OP. I still stand by Liara being the most integral. Without her, Shep doesn't stop the collectors. period. in fact, based on the comic, it's fairly safe to reason Shepard would in fact be WORKING for the collectors.

[ushae]

1. Liara - She recovered and sent Shepards body to the right people. Alliance would have buried him/her and the collectors would have desecrated his/her body or worse.

2. Tali - Finding Saren, being as cute as a button !

3. Illusive Man - Lazarus Project.

4. Mordin - Anti-Collector bug research.