617 réponses à ce sujet

[Brahlis]

Big_Lunk wrote...
Not everyone is homosexual!

Your correct logic and intelligent reasoning is harmful to this thread.

Modifié par Brahlis, 09 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[TheShady]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Not being romancable at all compares to her being bisexual, riiiiiight.

TheShady wrote...

I did not even mention anything gender-related one single bit.

[addiction21]

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Not being romancable at all compares to her being bisexual, riiiiiight. Keep reaching, people, you can quote Brahlis for truth.
The game has to be consistent. If FemShep is bi, then MaleShep has to be bi, too, OR THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY!
Besides, there's more than enough gay love in DAO with characters that are more interesting and have better bantar then  the ME characters.

Fixed that bit and your waffles are in the mail...

[Goat_Shepard]

addiction21 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...


Not being romancable at all compares to her being bisexual, riiiiiight. Keep reaching, people, you can quote Brahlis for truth.
The game has to be consistent. If FemShep is bi, then MaleShep has to be bi, too, OR THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY!
Besides, there's more than enough gay love in DAO with characters that are more interesting and have better bantar then  the ME characters.

Fixed that bit and your waffles are in the mail...

Haha thanks. Reminds me of a live concert of Tool and Maynard says "Now buy our album, so I can afford waffles". Then he switches the lyrics in the song to "And waffles and flesh never few". It was as awesome as the word waffles.

Uh, yeah, what were we talking about? Gay waffles? I'm gunna go eat some waffles.

[Abirn]

Vaulin Faust wrote...

"Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game."

-Bioware.

Tali likes men, Period.

Would be more believeable if they didn't let EA and/or Fox "news" dictate what does and doesn't go into their game.

[Varthun]

For my two cents, I think the biggest issue a lot of people are running in to here, is expecting an entirely human reaction from a character that is not human.

You expect, that due to her shyness, and overall empathy and care for a Female Shepard, that she would express this in romance. The problem is, quarian culture isn't human culture. Sure, the difference between intimacy and between deep friendship and trust is a thinner line for them. Sure, they have a deeper understanding of people, and a higher value on personality and such due to being stuck in enviro suits.

But the idea of caring only about personality, and looking beyond gender for love, is (even in game) an almost entirely human concept, maybe also an asari concept. You'll note, that it fits entirely in culture for the asari (who make up the romances people are listing as evidence of Shep's bisexuality) to have relationships regardless of gender. It also fits in to a human concept for the human Female Shepard to understand or express bisexual feelings.

However, it doesn't seem to be a common theme in quarian society. Actually, beyond the desire for intimate contact with another being, quarian society seems to be very, very different from human society. Quarians are built to always think of other people, regardless of how it affects them, as it is the only way to facilitate such a large grouping of people on such a tiny area. Quarians are also taught to trade things around, and to not have a very strongly defined sense of "mine" (I believe there's a comment on the Flotilla about how they just leave things in lockers, and someone else comes to get it if they want it). Just a few examples of how their culture is structured differently.

So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is this:
Based on the culture of the asari, and of humans (which is what allows for the bisexual romance between Fem Shep and the various Asari you meet, and the one human), You are assuming quarians react in the same way to romantic advances, with nothing to support this.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense to very many other people, or just seems plain wrong. *shrug* Just an opinion, like the rest of this thread.

[Mavkiel]

I keep trying to play a male shepard. Its just very difficult. I can't stand the voice acting, and trying to create a decent male face is difficult. Yes, I am using the online face database, but faces in game tend to look different from the character creator. Restarting because your unhappy with your face is annoying.



So in conclusion, I'd like to see Tali as a female romance option so I dont have to suffer through male sheps voice acting

[addiction21]

Abirn wrote...

Vaulin Faust wrote...

"Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game."

-Bioware.

Tali likes men, Period.

Would be more believeable if they didn't let EA and/or Fox "news" dictate what does and doesn't go into their game.

And you would of made  a good statement if another one of their games that recently launched did not contain explicit homosexual relationships and dialogue.

I will be waiting for someone to provide me the minutes of the meeting where the head shot callers at BW sat down and said " Fox said mean things about our game so lets not do that again" Untill then I will just point you to Zeveran.

[Abirn]

addiction21 wrote...

Abirn wrote...

Vaulin Faust wrote...

"Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game."

-Bioware.

Tali likes men, Period.

Would be more believeable if they didn't let EA and/or Fox "news" dictate what does and doesn't go into their game.

And you would of made  a good statement if another one of their games that recently launched did not contain explicit homosexual relationships and dialogue.

I will be waiting for someone to provide me the minutes of the meeting where the head shot callers at BW sat down and said " Fox said mean things about our game so lets not do that again" Untill then I will just point you to Zeveran.

The dialog for a femshep and tali romance was recorded in studio.  It was even linked earlier in this thread.  What else do you want to prove that somebody higher up came in and said to pull the plug on that.

[Naltair]

Mavkiel wrote...

I keep trying to play a male shepard. Its just very difficult. I can't stand the voice acting, and trying to create a decent male face is difficult. Yes, I am using the online face database, but faces in game tend to look different from the character creator. Restarting because your unhappy with your face is annoying.

So in conclusion, I'd like to see Tali as a female romance option so I dont have to suffer through male sheps voice acting

I could say the same for female Shepard, I don't particularly care for the voice but I am not going to complain that blank male choice should be fore men just cause I don't like that aspect.

On top of that as I said before and numerous times we need at least a bisexual male long before we need ANOTHER bisexual female in ME.

[Naltair]

Abirn wrote...
The dialog for a femshep and tali romance was recorded in studio.  It was even linked earlier in this thread.  What else do you want to prove that somebody higher up came in and said to pull the plug on that.

Why does it need to be complicated.

Why can't it be, we, the dev team, decided against that, the end.

[Collider]

Abirn wrote...
The dialog for a femshep and tali romance was recorded in studio.  It was even linked earlier in this thread.  What else do you want to prove that somebody higher up came in and said to pull the plug on that.

Yea, and Kelly isn't a romance option for females, right?

Or Samara...or Morinth...or Liara...

If they did record it, Bioware could just as easily have decided that Tali isn't bisexual. Simple as that. Just as they did with Kaidan. Characters go through many evolutions pre-release. Someone just doesn't think up a character once and bam it's set.

[Varthun]

Abirn wrote...

The dialog for a femshep and tali romance was recorded in studio.  It was even linked earlier in this thread.  What else do you want to prove that somebody higher up came in and said to pull the plug on that.

Problem being, that it isn't actually romantic conversation. There's no actual romantic convo. The dialogue they have is the pre-sexual conversation that happens, yet there is no recorded conversation similar to the Eezo core one that occurs between Male Shep and Tali. There's also slight changes in the dialogue, along with the "interest" line being changed pretty strongly. In my opinion, it's very similar to the Thane convo. Calls you a great friend, and expresses the greatest trust for you they can (Thane talks about his wife, Tali about suit linking) Yet Tali's lines don't communicate the sexual vibe that is present in the Male Shep "interest" line, much the same as Thane's convo is identical, but he calls you friend instead of siha.

Almost sounds more like they didn't design it to be sexual, but pulled it because they were afraid it gave that impression which they eventually apparently decided not to convey.

Just my thoughts.

Modifié par Varthun, 09 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Mavkiel]

Naltair wrote...
I could say the same for female Shepard, I don't particularly care for the voice but I am not going to complain that blank male choice should be fore men just cause I don't like that aspect.

On top of that as I said before and numerous times we need at least a bisexual male long before we need ANOTHER bisexual female in ME.

Here is my arguement against that. Guys in general would not object to seeing two women make out. I'd venture most straight guys have zero interest in seeing two guys go at it. So adding more female/female romances give you the most bang for the buck.

Old joke is if you see your girl friend making out with another girl and she invites you to join, thats a good thing. Your girl friend walking in on you and another guy making out, is not going to make her happy.

[Naltair]

Mavkiel wrote...

Naltair wrote...
I could say the same for female Shepard, I don't particularly care for the voice but I am not going to complain that blank male choice should be fore men just cause I don't like that aspect.

On top of that as I said before and numerous times we need at least a bisexual male long before we need ANOTHER bisexual female in ME.

Here is my arguement against that. Guys in general would not object to seeing two women make out. I'd venture most straight guys have zero interest in seeing two guys go at it. So adding more female/female romances give you the most bang for the buck.

Old joke is if you see your girl friend making out with another girl and she invites you to join, thats a good thing. Your girl friend walking in on you and another guy making out, is not going to make her happy.

But your argument is not really the point.  I am arguing against just fan service sexy time you want to support it.

I don't, especially if these people really want same sex romances and not just dude that would be hawt crap.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Abirn]

Naltair wrote...

Abirn wrote...
The dialog for a femshep and tali romance was recorded in studio.  It was even linked earlier in this thread.  What else do you want to prove that somebody higher up came in and said to pull the plug on that.

Why does it need to be complicated.

Why can't it be, we, the dev team, decided against that, the end.

Because common sense says otherwise.  If the case really were that this is the developers intention I would have no problem with that.  But common sense says that this has fox news pandering all over it.

[Naltair]

Mavkiel wrote...
Old joke is if you see your girl friend making out with another girl and she invites you to join, thats a good thing. Your girl friend walking in on you and another guy making out, is not going to make her happy.

I should add that men that play women and want women on women action have multiple choices already in game.

They don't need more bang for their buck.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[Naltair]

Abirn wrote...
Because common sense says otherwise.  If the case really were that this is the developers intention I would have no problem with that.  But common sense says that this has fox news pandering all over it.

That isn't common sense at all, they still have same sex relationships and scenes in the game.  They still have you continuing your same sex/alien species relationship in game.

Common sense dictates that they made a decision at some point and ran with it.

[skyferret]

I like OP. It's a sensible argument, in my opinion. And I can see the validity of the opposition in the first ten pages. After that is just sort of starts circling and spiraling into other things that would do better as separate topics. So I'm just going to say I concur with OP.

[Lord Shadowsong]

To be honest, I thought Tali was the bisexual alien in the first game until Liara was like: You kinda have to choose between us. I must admit I was a little dissapointed.

[Lord Shadowsong]

Naltair wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...
Old joke is if you see your girl friend making out with another girl and she invites you to join, thats a good thing. Your girl friend walking in on you and another guy making out, is not going to make her happy.

I should add that men that play women and want women on women action have multiple choices already in game.

They don't need more bang for their buck.

Um, which mass effect have you been playing? Mass Effect 2 gives you no choice like that, (I do not count Yeoman as a real  romance.)

[Naltair]

Lord Shadowsong wrote...

To be honest, I thought Tali was the bisexual alien in the first game until Liara was like: You kinda have to choose between us. I must admit I was a little dissapointed.

Tali in ME1 never makes a sexual advance towards either gender ever.  I mean I could see it ME2, but ME1?

Were we playing the same game?  Was there some massive sexual tension in how she described the admiralty board?  Or the Geth?  Maybe when you gave her the data?

My mind boggles at this.

[Naltair]

Lord Shadowsong wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...
Old joke is if you see your girl friend making out with another girl and she invites you to join, thats a good thing. Your girl friend walking in on you and another guy making out, is not going to make her happy.

I should add that men that play women and want women on women action have multiple choices already in game.

They don't need more bang for their buck.

Um, which mass effect have you been playing? Mass Effect 2 gives you no choice like that, (I do not count Yeoman as a real  romance.)

She strips for you male or female, even if you don't count it as a romance on the grounds of the achievement she still does that for regardless of gender.  You can sleep with the Consort, you can sleep with Morinth.

You can most definitely sleep with Liara.

You cannot do anything with a male shaped character and be a male Shepard.

[Naltair]

This isn't even about an achievement this is about the representation of sexuality between two female or female shaped avatars being more acceptable than sex or implied sex between two male shaped avatars.

[Goat_Shepard]

Mark Meer > Jennifer Hale, sorry.



I finish this silly argument with once again stating: Bisexual FemShep + Heterosexual MaleShep = SEXISM! So you're either all in or all out. MaleShep is straight so FemShep is straight.