617 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Shadowsong]

There are plenty of other games or porn for people who just want lesbian sex though.

[Varthun]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Can someone help me here with a Liara quote? Asari don't have genders (the Asari can be fathers or mothers), so even though it's two female forms scizzoring each other, it's not lesbianism because they can make babies. So the only evidence of ACTUAL FemShep bisexualism is Kelly?

I assumed Jack was a F/F option but so much for assumptions. Can anyone prove me wrong so I understand more clearly, too?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari

is the closest thing to the codex entry I can find. It generally explains what you are talking about.

[Naltair]

If you speak about the asari as monogendered you are missing the point, this isn't about the species this is about the perception that the every day gamer will get from that scene which is girl on girl action and how that is more acceptable than some made up monogendered all male appearing race and having them get it on.

It's semantics to fall back on the species when the crux of this argument is on the actual physical contact between two beings of the same or same appearing gender.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 10:34 .

[Naltair]

Brahlis wrote...

Who cares about the Liara crap. That's completely off topic. Let this abortion of a thread fall back into the depths of the internet.

I wish it would but some new post would just come up and take it's place probably with a misleading title.

At least this thread topic is openly honest.

[Varthun]

Naltair wrote...

If you speak about the asari as monogendered you are missing the point, this isn't about the species this is about the perception that the every day gamer will get from that scene which is girl on girl action. How that is more acceptable than some made up monogendered all male appearing race and having them get it on.

It's semantics to fall back on the species when the crux of this argument is on the actual physical contact between two beings of the same or same appearing gender.

Depends where you take the arguement.

It would be semantics to say, "But there's no males, so it's not bisexual because there's no other sex to be bi about."

It would not be semantics to say, "It occurs between a human and either another human or an asari only. And even that, occurs due to a background in their basic culture."

[Naltair]

I am not talking about the species though my argument is about the inclusion or exclusion of same sex or same sex in appearance physical relationships in ME1 or ME2.



If you watch Liara and female Shepard you might as well be watching two women go at it even if they are monogendered. But there is so no similar option for male Shepard, that is my point.



Even Kelly who is human can be an option for both genders. But again there is no male npc that fits that type.

[Naltair]

Varthun wrote...
Depends where you take the arguement.

It would be semantics to say, "But there's no males, so it's not bisexual because there's no other sex to be bi about."

It would not be semantics to say, "It occurs between a human and either another human or an asari only. And even that, occurs due to a background in their basic culture."

I am not arguing their culture or species though, I am arguing the actual in game appearance and implications it has to the player.  Most people will see it as a bisexual sex scene regardless of the species involved.  That is what I mean by semantics.

Not the in-game reasoning but the reasoning that we as rational beings can plainly see two female forms involved in physical sexual contact.  But there is nothing similar for male Shepard anywhere in the franchise.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 10:42 .

[Tooneyman]

If you had said. Ok. Lets make concequences to being an butt head to tali. I would understand, what are you talkin about. If you don't want Tali to fall for you make your character not go that route. My shepards been an A the whole time, and hasn't even looked at Tali. This is shepards story, so your going to get what ever shepards opinions are. Its up to you to make the choices and whatever way you choose for your shep. holla!

[HAGA NAGA]

i really think that since some players got sideboob in ME1 there should be SideDong in ME3. LOL.

[Varthun]

Naltair wrote...

I am not talking about the species though my argument is about the inclusion or exclusion of same sex or same sex in appearance physical relationships in ME1 or ME2.

If you watch Liara and female Shepard you might as well be watching two women go at it even if they are monogendered. But there is so no similar option for male Shepard, that is my point.

Even Kelly who is human can be an option for both genders. But again there is no male npc that fits that type.

And there are no races currently in game that I have heard of (besides humans) that has any known history of homosexuality.

Maybe in the next game they'll expand the game, and make some strange amalgamation of asari culture and human culture and produce some male oriented species, and make them designed for what appears to be "MalexMale".

I suppose I'm just slightly confused. People seem to be insisting that Bioware ignore the idea of seperate races and make them carbon copies of humans, that just happen to look different. They have different cultures, different standards, and will respond differently. *shrug*

[Naltair]

You are missing my argument, it has nothing to do with the species involved or cultures just the depiction of same sex or same sex in appearance romances on the screen and in the game. It has everything to do with the fact that female Shepard has multiple choices between the two games to engage in such activities regardless of the species involved and male Shepard has none.



Species does not matter when it comes to what the asari are supposed to look like which is human women, and how that is somehow more acceptable than a male + male Shepard romance.

[Naltair]

Varthun wrote...
I suppose I'm just slightly confused. People seem to be insisting that Bioware ignore the idea of seperate races and make them carbon copies of humans, that just happen to look different. They have different cultures, different standards, and will respond differently. *shrug*

I actually want the species to be very different.

All I am arguing is that people want more same sex options for female Shepard while male Shepard has none.

[Varthun]

Naltair wrote...

You are missing my argument, it has nothing to do with the species involved or cultures just the depiction of same sex or same sex in appearance romances on the screen and in the game. It has everything to do with the fact that female Shepard has multiple choices between the two games to engage in such activities regardless of the species involved and male Shepard has none.

Species does not matter when it comes to what the asari are supposed to look like which is human women, and how that is somehow more acceptable than a male + male Shepard romance.

No, actually, from what you've just said, I've hit your arguement quite well.

My counterarguement is this: It's their story, and they've decided to hold to some semblance of what they think the picture should be. It's not fair, it doesn't represent everyone equally, and it doesn't cater to every possible difference that could exist.

So they've decided to, instead of making the game completely flat and stale, make a world where the male shepard doesn't get the same possibilites as female shepard. Why is that a problem? I guess the only real analogy I can bring up is: Not everyone gets the same opportunities everyone else does. If you are seriously desperate for some MalexMale, or desire the game to be the precise same opportunities no matter what decisions you make (and remember, gender is a decision), then perhaps we just have different ideas of what the game is.

A great novel, and to some extent a great game, is just as valuable for what you don't get, as for what you do.

Modifié par Varthun, 09 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[Ferocious7]

danteshepard wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

[Naltair]

I am not wanting a male Shepard same sex romance for me personally, and actually agree with you. We are actually on the same page.

Your stance is why I don't support Tali as a same sex romance, my argument was not against you actually it was why I feel that asking for yet another same sex romance in general for females was wrong when Male Shepard has no options.

But you and I, Varthun are actually tracking the same message.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 10:59 .

[Ferocious7]

lmfao @ all the "your argument is invalid" pics... on a serious note yeah... I played ME1 for the lesbian romance and not ashamed to admit it.... however after playing through it I realized what a great game it was regardless..... however, my fem shepard from ME1 was kinda left hanging in ME2.. well besides Kelly being on call at the push of a button.... it would make sense for Tali to be okay with shepard either way as long as he/she has been honorable and fair in Tali's eyes.... as that seems to be very important to her. She kinda almost flirts with fem shepard..... and makes mention of something that seems like it would be possible to have a fem/fem romance.... I think it was about "locking suits any day"... so it's not too late for Bioware to include it =P



I actually made a new game with a male so I can try the jack, tali, and probably miranda romances.... being there were no REAL fem/fem ones.

[Naltair]

Ferocious7 wrote...
I actually made a new game with a male so I can try the jack, tali, and probably miranda romances.... being there were no REAL fem/fem ones.

There are no REAL male/male ones either.

[HAGA NAGA]

Naltair wrote...

Ferocious7 wrote...
I actually made a new game with a male so I can try the jack, tali, and probably miranda romances.... being there were no REAL fem/fem ones.

There are no REAL male/male ones either.

oh, now Naltair. you know what was meant.

[Goat_Shepard]

I can definitely see where the female gamers are coming from, but I think if there was both a MaleShep/Tali relationship and a FemShep/Tali, the resulting hotness would create a black hole that would suck all matter into itself and we would all miss out on ME3. Bioware is only thinking of self-preserving themselves, and us.

[Naltair]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Ferocious7 wrote...
I actually made a new game with a male so I can try the jack, tali, and probably miranda romances.... being there were no REAL fem/fem ones.

There are no REAL male/male ones either.

oh, now Naltair. you know what was meant.

Perhaps you are right, but I just hate when people use that as a bullet point when it really is not but perhaps I was being hasty in my zealousness.

[77boy84]

First Asari, then Turian, then Drell, and now female quarians!



Why can't FemShep just be normal, without being attracted to everything that walks on two legs?

[addiction21]

77boy84 wrote...

First Asari, then Turian, then Drell, and now female quarians!

Why can't FemShep just be normal, without being attracted to everything that walks on two legs?

I think it is a affirmitive action type of thing. Male shep is attracted to everything with two legs so to be fair female shep needs to be a horn dog also.

[77boy84]

addiction21 wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

First Asari, then Turian, then Drell, and now female quarians!

Why can't FemShep just be normal, without being attracted to everything that walks on two legs?

I think it is a affirmitive action type of thing. Male shep is attracted to everything with two legs so to be fair female shep needs to be a horn dog also.

Shepard reserves his attraction to women, and blue women.

[Goat_Shepard]

Naltair wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Ferocious7 wrote...
I actually made a new game with a male so I can try the jack, tali, and probably miranda romances.... being there were no REAL fem/fem ones.

There are no REAL male/male ones either.

oh, now Naltair. you know what was meant.

Perhaps you are right, but I just hate when people use that as a bullet point when it really is not but perhaps I was being hasty in my zealousness.

Good point. People just like this game and want it to be perfect for them, because at the moment people who want M/M and F/F feel they are getting less than those who are happy with the "perfect" game. The fact is, every game can't be suited for everyone. I think DAO comes close, but to expect the same things from DAO to be included in ME is just being selfish. What's so hard about just talking? Whats so hard about not romancing? What's so hard about heterosexual relationships. I think relations with Asari, Turians, and Drell are more than unique enough to satisfy people looking for something extreme. Are there that many homosexuals out there they are attracted to Bioware games cuz they're the only ones who HAVE implemented homosexual/bisexual relationships? 

I'm not world-weary, so I don't know all the games out there, so forgive me. But man, I'd feel bad if I were a developer at Bioware, and spent all this time making these awesome characters to romance, only to be belittled because you didn't make an awesome gay character, too. I'll give Bioware the benefit of the doubt when I say they're mostly heterosexual males who probably aren't good at making a homosexual relationship seem real. I didn't pursue any gay relationships in DAO, has anyone here done that? If so can they give some insight into how well Bioware is at giving you a (relatively) realistic homosexual relationship? I hear Zevran is pretty stereotypical, but any additional insight would be appreciated.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 09 février 2010 - 11:28 .

[Naltair]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
Good point. People just like this game and want it to be perfect for them, because at the moment people who want M/M and F/F feel they are getting less than those who are happy with the "perfect" game. The fact is, every game can't be suited for everyone. I think DAO comes close, but to expect the same things from DAO to be included in ME is just being selfish. What's so hard about just talking? Whats so hard about not romancing? What's so hard about heterosexual relationships. I think relations with Asari, Turians, and Drell are more than unique enough to satisfy people looking for something extreme. Are there that many homosexuals out there they are attracted to Bioware games cuz they're the only ones who HAVE implemented homosexual/bisexual relationships? 

I'm not world-weary, so I don't know all the games out there, so forgive me. But man, I'd feel bad if I were a developer at Bioware, and spent all this time making these awesome characters to romance, only to be belittled because you didn't make an awesome gay character, too. I'll give Bioware the benefit of the doubt when I say they're mostly heterosexual males who probably aren't good at making a homosexual relationship seem real. I didn't pursue any gay relationships in DAO, has anyone here done that? If so can they give some insight into how well Bioware is at giving you a (relatively) realistic homosexual relationship? I hear Zevran is pretty stereotypical, but any additional insight would be appreciated.

You can't please everyone and I agree with you, it's a small point but for some people it has rather large implications like they feel they are missing out on something huge.  It's a perception thing and nothing much can be done to fix it.