617 réponses à ce sujet

[Ninja Ataris]

Maybe she's just not into girls? I mean we have Asari for a reason, don't we? Don't need another of those IMO.



Besides, I find the reasoning invalid. Just because you go through drastic experiences together does not mean you form a romantic bond. A bond, maybe but not romantic ones. Just because people have a rough time during war and go about saving each other's lives does not mean they all turn homosexual to each other, it's ridiculous.



My Shephard and Garrus work together well, as friends, you don't just change a character's preferences like that. Tali is the equivalent of Garrus in ME2.



Don't get me wrong, I love Tali and hope she returns in ME3, but the fanservice has to stop somewhere in favour of character.



We can't have everyone being bisexual, it's silly.

[Kolaris8472]

Ninja Ataris wrote...

Maybe she's just not into girls? I mean we have Asari for a reason, don't we? Don't need another of those IMO.

Besides, I find the reasoning invalid. Just because you go through drastic experiences together does not mean you form a romantic bond. A bond, maybe but not romantic ones. Just because people have a rough time during war and go about saving each other's lives does not mean they all turn homosexual to each other, it's ridiculous.

My Shephard and Garrus work together well, as friends, you don't just change a character's preferences like that. Tali is the equivalent of Garrus in ME2.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tali and hope she returns in ME3, but the fanservice has to stop somewhere in favour of character.

We can't have everyone being bisexual, it's silly.

Again, the only alternative doesn't make sense within her character. Saying that Tali should only like Malesheps just so she can be an equivalent of Garrus in terms of game design also doesn't make a lot of sense if you want to talk about consistent characters. 

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Ettecoud wrote...

Hey Mikazukinoyaiba2.....get a new name....

And on that note.....
No one likes people like you
Take that as you will

If I made a thread like this, with this much effort into it, I know I would be pissed when a few disruptive users turned it into a spam fest with ridiculous pictures that have been posted over a million times in other threads vaguely related to the topic.

This isn't 4chan, if the kiddies can't keep a coherent conversation they can go to another website like oh say 4chan.

[T1l]

Didn't Casey Hudson or someone pretty much say that despite you playing Shepard, it's -their- Shepard.



Also - Tali isn't a bisexual. Or at least, she doesn't appear to be. Bioware slapping the "swings both ways" tag on her just becasue you want them too is a bit self-centered, don't you think?

[tmp7704]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Tali can become intimate with a rude renegade who takes nearly every opportunity to ignore or berate her, but ignores a female who always looked out and cared for her, all the while looking up to Shephard for being able to look beyond her masked exterior.

This is less odd that you'd think given what's otherwise known as the "nice guy paradox".

Other than that, we're individually wired to find some physical features attractive and some not. If Bioware has decided that for whatever reason Tali doesn't get turned on by physical form of human females enough to want physical contact with one... well, that's how she rolls. If nothing else it makes more sense than the devs deciding what the player character's should be attracted to.

[ShadyKat]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Ettecoud wrote...

Hey Mikazukinoyaiba2.....get a new name....

And on that note.....
No one likes people like you
Take that as you will

If I made a thread like this, with this much effort into it, I know I would be pissed when a few disruptive users turned it into a spam fest with ridiculous pictures that have been posted over a million times in other threads vaguely related to the topic.

This isn't 4chan, if the kiddies can't keep a coherent conversation they can go to another website like oh say 4chan.

It's hard to tell i'm not on 4chan at times, with all the trolling and ****ing about the game.

[Soldier989]

Skip to 8:02 and listen, most of the stuff from 8:02 - 9:25 isn't ingame.



Bioware cut Tali/FemaleShepard romance from ME2, or something close to it.

[Kolaris8472]

T1l wrote...

Didn't Casey Hudson or someone pretty much say that despite you playing Shepard, it's -their- Shepard.

Also - Tali isn't a bisexual. Or at least, she doesn't appear to be. Bioware slapping the "swings both ways" tag on her just becasue you want them too is a bit self-centered, don't you think?

I suppose so, but I tried not to let this be my reasoning. The point was that if she wants everyone else to look at her for her personality but won't do the same for others, it makes her character shallow and/or inconsistent. 

[Brahlis]

Hmm. Nah ...

Well, leme think about it.

Oh, that's right: No.

Wait, then again ...

No.

Then again ...

Oh yeah, No.

And you know what else? No.

And just to get a celebrity opinion:

Modifié par Brahlis, 09 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[T1l]

Sorry, it was Ray Muzyka on IGN.

"Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional."

So, basically, "Yeah, no. Sorry." - if you can read though the politician speak.

EDIT: Wait, I need to give that quote context. Here: http://au.xbox360.ig.../1066954p2.html

Modifié par T1l, 09 février 2010 - 04:19 .

[-Area51-Silent]

I think this gets into the idea of interspecies homosexuality. While I understand the points of the community, its even a stretch to have Shepard as a Human mate with her I believe. Likewise Shepard as human mating with Garrus.



With a culture purely based on the survival like the Quarians, as well as genetic diversity, I would imagine within the society that makes its home on ships, it would be a very hard stretch to play out a homosexual character. While I have no problem with the idea, the practicality of someone in a society that is rather extremely dependant on population size and genetic diversity, I would imagine that homosexuality is exessively rare or non-existant within this type of culture.



This is in no way to imply that affection between two men or two women wouldnt exist, the fact could be they may "link their exo-suits and share an environment." That much I wouldnt say is to far fetched.

[Ninja Ataris]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Ninja Ataris wrote...

Maybe she's just not into girls? I mean we have Asari for a reason, don't we? Don't need another of those IMO.

Besides, I find the reasoning invalid. Just because you go through drastic experiences together does not mean you form a romantic bond. A bond, maybe but not romantic ones. Just because people have a rough time during war and go about saving each other's lives does not mean they all turn homosexual to each other, it's ridiculous.

My Shephard and Garrus work together well, as friends, you don't just change a character's preferences like that. Tali is the equivalent of Garrus in ME2.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tali and hope she returns in ME3, but the fanservice has to stop somewhere in favour of character.

We can't have everyone being bisexual, it's silly.

Again, the only alternative doesn't make sense within her character. Saying that Tali should only like Malesheps just so she can be an equivalent of Garrus in terms of game design also doesn't make a lot of sense if you want to talk about consistent characters. 

I simply responded to why it doesn't make sense from a game design perspective as well as a character perspective. If you don't want to see that, that's another thing.

She's not bisexual. Nothing she's ever said has shown an interest in other female characters. The default Shephard is male. I think it's cool that Bioware even gave the alternative to play as a female character.

But don't go bending the other characters now, there should be some kind of personality in it. I'm fine with one or two characters swinging two ways. Tali is not one of them. That's why we have Asari.

[Kolaris8472]

Brahlis wrote...
stuff

I remember when you at least tried to post excerpts and small arguments, but I guess that didn't work out too well...

Again, I get that people don't want this, I'm just interested in knowing why, especially in terms of the characters themselves. 

[Turkeysock]

Odd, I had no issues of reading this. Though it is a wall of text and can be a pain to read, anyone who says it is unreadable didn't even try to read it>.>



As for the topic on hand. It is totally plausible. There aren't any issues, and honestly it would just require a little bit of code changing... and some new voice work from femShep. Aside from that, there aren't any big issues except that there will be a larger cry for maleShep/male squadie relationship. Which again wouldn't require a lot of changing, just reusing scenes and some new voice work from one actor.



Just my 2 cents.

[aksoileau]

Tali is straight. You can't turn her gay. If you play your shepard as gay that's fine, but tali likes dudes.

[Kolaris8472]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

I think this gets into the idea of interspecies homosexuality. While I understand the points of the community, its even a stretch to have Shepard as a Human mate with her I believe. Likewise Shepard as human mating with Garrus.

With a culture purely based on the survival like the Quarians, as well as genetic diversity, I would imagine within the society that makes its home on ships, it would be a very hard stretch to play out a homosexual character. While I have no problem with the idea, the practicality of someone in a society that is rather extremely dependant on population size and genetic diversity, I would imagine that homosexuality is exessively rare or non-existant within this type of culture.

This is in no way to imply that affection between two men or two women wouldnt exist, the fact could be they may "link their exo-suits and share an environment." That much I wouldnt say is to far fetched.

Societies (human ones at least) that have limited contact with the other gender or have stipulations against multiple births are often infamous for same-sex relationships (e.g. Spartans) 

The Quarian on Ilium with her "nerve stimulator" seems to indicate that Quarians "make do"

[tmp7704]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

I suppose so, but I tried not to let this be my reasoning. The point was that if she wants everyone else to look at her for her personality but won't do the same for others, it makes her character shallow and/or inconsistent. 

However she doesn't want everyone to love her for her personality, does she? Just not to discard her as worthy person based on stereotypes, which is quite different level of relationship. And she does extend this courtesy to you, treating you with respect etc herself. I don't really find it inconsistent nor shallow, personally.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
I suppose so, but I tried not to let this be my reasoning. The point was that if she wants everyone else to look at her for her personality but won't do the same for others, it makes her character shallow and/or inconsistent. 

Being straight makes someone shallow/inconsistent? You can want people to like you for who you are without having to want sex with them.

[T1l]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Brahlis wrote...
stuff

I remember when you at least tried to post excerpts and small arguments, but I guess that didn't work out too well...

Again, I get that people don't want this, I'm just interested in knowing why, especially in terms of the characters themselves. 

Honestly, I really don't have a problem with them putting in homosexual or bi-sexual content. It would effect their demographic, I think (in that despite the game being an M rating their target audience is probably PG), but more importantly I just don't want them to massacre established characters. It's one of the reasons why I don't particularly want to see a gay/bi relationship full-stop. Let alone other characters, Shepard particularly at this point after two games is almost categorically straight (aside the Asari, if you want to count that as a female/female relationship, which the developers don't).

For Bioware to throw it in, in act three, would feel really out of place. It'd be like Luke Skywalker turning around when he's dancing with the Ewoks and giving Han Solo a slap on the arse - to me, it'd just be out of place.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that Tali (and Shepard) are established characters at this point. No sense in changing them on a whim so you can get your jollies.

Modifié par T1l, 09 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[Kolaris8472]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
I suppose so, but I tried not to let this be my reasoning. The point was that if she wants everyone else to look at her for her personality but won't do the same for others, it makes her character shallow and/or inconsistent. 

Being straight makes someone shallow/inconsistent? You can want people to like you for who you are without having to want sex with them.

Sigh...I tried several times to disclosure what I meant by that in the OP, I guess I should have carried it with me. 

No, being straight is not shallow. But I feel valuing "private parts", incompatible ones at that, enough that a 180 in personality and emotional connection happens, it does feel shallow to me. 

But I agree that it could just be a platonic relationship, that's more than feasible. Which would lead to the "lesser-evil" argument that it won't happen. 

[Thargorichiban]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
I suppose so, but I tried not to let this be my reasoning. The point was that if she wants everyone else to look at her for her personality but won't do the same for others, it makes her character shallow and/or inconsistent. 

Being straight makes someone shallow/inconsistent? You can want people to like you for who you are without having to want sex with them.

QFT. Not once in the series has Tali ever expressed any romantic feelings towards the same sex of any species. Why should Bioware then make her bi/gay all of a sudden? Doing that would seem to be a shallow decision aimed at those fans that write "interesting" fanfics.

[Ninja Ataris]

T1l wrote...

Honestly, I really don't have a problem with them putting in homosexual or bi-sexual content. It would effect their demographic, I think (in that despite the game being an M rating their target audience is probably PG), but more importantly I just don't want them to massacre established characters. It's one of the reasons why I don't particularly want to see a gay/bi relationship full-stop. Let alone other characters, Shepard particularly at this point after two games is almost categorically straight (aside the Asari, if you want to count that as a female/female relationship, which the developers don't).

Very nicely written. Good to see someone sharing my concerns.

T1l wrote...

For Bioware to throw it in, in act three, would feel really out of place. It'd be like Luke Skywalker turning around when he's dancing with the Ewoks and giving Han Solo a slap on the arse - to me, it'd just be out of place.

Lol, thanks for the mental image, man!

[Brahlis]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
I remember when you at least tried to post excerpts and small arguments, but I guess that didn't work out too well...

Again, I get that people don't want this, I'm just interested in knowing why, especially in terms of the characters themselves. 

What's the point in doing that when nobody ever listens? It's pointless. If you also remember me doing that then you also remember the opposition using retarded logic and reasoning to dismiss it. I'm tired of wasting my breath and honestly it doesn't matter what one side says because it's not going to change the mind of the other.

Besides, other people have already said my opinion. Why should I waste my time typing the exact same thing when I can just give a quick smart ass response that pretty much expresses my opinion on the matter.

But, just for good measure:

T1l wrote...
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that Tali (and
Shepard) are established characters at this point. No sense in changing
them on a whim so you can get your jollies.

QFT.

Modifié par Brahlis, 09 février 2010 - 04:29 .

[drakkan1021]

Am I the only one who supports?

[Wittand25]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

I think this gets into the idea of interspecies homosexuality. While I understand the points of the community, its even a stretch to have Shepard as a Human mate with her I believe. Likewise Shepard as human mating with Garrus.

With a culture purely based on the survival like the Quarians, as well as genetic diversity, I would imagine within the society that makes its home on ships, it would be a very hard stretch to play out a homosexual character. While I have no problem with the idea, the practicality of someone in a society that is rather extremely dependant on population size and genetic diversity, I would imagine that homosexuality is exessively rare or non-existant within this type of culture.

This is in no way to imply that affection between two men or two women wouldnt exist, the fact could be they may "link their exo-suits and share an environment." That much I wouldnt say is to far fetched.

Quarians have limited resources, they need to keep their population low not high, so homosexual relationships would not present a problem.