Kolaris8472 wrote...
Well color me confused but I still don't see anything in that interview explaining how Shephard, if female, is not possibly bisexual or lesbian. Third person narrative, yadda yadda...but the precedent is already there.
Brahlis wrote...
If you're talking about the inconsistency between dialogue for maleShep and femShelp then you're only slightly correct. As you said, you're only one person down in comparison to maleShep which probably comes out to one or two minutes of dialogue. So, to remedy that you want them to change a character so that they're bisexual and you can get your two minutes of dialogue?
I still don't see what this has to do with Tali specifically. Couldn't they just as easily add a character in ME3 that suits your needs? Why retcon a current one and completely devalue everything?
Adon 9 wrote...
There was that other lengthy thread about same-sex romances, and the quote basically talks about Mass Effect being more of a 'third person narrative' with Shepard having defined characteristics. It didn't really convince anyone to change their minds... those against the same-sex options basically used it to crow and declare victory, and those for found it to be full of doublespeak and outright contradictions with the game experience as well.
Simply put, citing that interview isn't really going to get anyone to change their minds, and it's probably not a good idea to keep going back to it as proof of a point.
Did femSheps get a chance to express those feelings? No, only maleSheps do.Brahlis wrote...
You can love someone without being sexually interested in them. You know that right? That's why your entire argument about inconsistency is completely retarded. She loves femShep, but not in a sexual way. It's not that hard to get.Kolaris8472 wrote ...
You value sexuality over morals, that's fine. From what we know of Tali up until the romance starts, she doesn't. That's why I consider it inconsistent. I suppose you could say that its a "revelation" that she's actually really just into hot hunks even if they're against what she stands for, but that's where I'd bring in that word "shallow".
Exactly!WilliamShatner wrote...
If you romance Tali as male Shepard she is straight. If you romance her as female Shepard she is gay.
Of course that is if you look at it from human terms. What's too say alien races even consider stuff like that.
And as I said before, if you can overlook the alien species bridge when looking for romance, the gender bridge isn't exactly a long one.
Modifié par TheShady, 09 février 2010 - 05:46 .
Brahlis wrote...
You can love someone without being sexually interested in them. You know that right? That's why your entire argument about inconsistency is completely retarded. She loves femShep, but not in a sexual way. It's not that hard to get.
Every heard for a Bromance?
TheShady wrote...
Did femSheps get a chance to express those feelings? No, only maleSheps do.Brahlis wrote...
You can love someone without being sexually interested in them. You know that right? That's why your entire argument about inconsistency is completely retarded. She loves femShep, but not in a sexual way. It's not that hard to get.Kolaris8472 wrote ...
You value sexuality over morals, that's fine. From what we know of Tali up until the romance starts, she doesn't. That's why I consider it inconsistent. I suppose you could say that its a "revelation" that she's actually really just into hot hunks even if they're against what she stands for, but that's where I'd bring in that word "shallow".
Then it's too damn bad for them then, isn't it?WilliamShatner wrote...
Because Tali is the most beloved Mass Effect character. Fact. And people who play as female Shepard miss out on this brilliant part of the game.
Why does the sexuality and morality have to be two different statements. Why can;t they both be facets of her character in equal measure. I say deal with it in that example to mean that people will make decisions you disagree with especially romance wise butt hat is her choice. If she wants to be with a jerk, I can't stop her any more so than anyone else.Kolaris8472 wrote...
I'm using the words Renegade and Paragon out of convenience. No Tali isn't strictly "Paragon", this isn't a white and black morality system. But if you bring her along for all your Renegade actions she clearly shows disapproval.
The "deal with it" line, great. I'm asking people if they'd rather have a morally/personality consistent character or a possibly sexually consistent character and they say its the sex that matters. Greaat....
Given that there are appreciation threads for all of FemShep's LIs save Jacob, and I may have just missed that one, disappointment with FemShep's options is not universal.Naltair wrote...
Why would you be pissed? What makes male Shepard's options categorically better?
T1l wrote...
Adon 9 wrote...
There was that other lengthy thread about same-sex romances, and the quote basically talks about Mass Effect being more of a 'third person narrative' with Shepard having defined characteristics. It didn't really convince anyone to change their minds... those against the same-sex options basically used it to crow and declare victory, and those for found it to be full of doublespeak and outright contradictions with the game experience as well.
Simply put, citing that interview isn't really going to get anyone to change their minds, and it's probably not a good idea to keep going back to it as proof of a point.
That's exactly right. You can either take it at face value and accept that Bioware have solid narrative with a main character called Shepard who is and isn't certain things; or not. People will believe what they want, and at the end of the day, threads like this will not stop until Mass Effect 3 gets launched and the trilogy is over.
And that's exactly one major problem of ME2.T1l wrote...
Male Shepards don't get to pursue relationships with Garrus, Thane or Jacob either.
So now every character needs 4 versions?TheShady wrote...
Exactly!
We have 4 different Shepards, why not 4 different Talis?
TheShady wrote...
-Original message before editing about how femSheps never got to express love for Tali-
TheShady wrote...
And that's exactly one major problem of ME2.
T1l wrote...
That's exactly right. You can either take it at face value and accept that Bioware have solid narrative with a main character called Shepard who is and isn't certain things; or not. People will believe what they want, and at the end of the day, threads like this will not stop until Mass Effect 3 gets launched and the trilogy is over.
Very true, it's Tali that brigs up the subject.Brahlis wrote...
TheShady wrote...
-Original message before editing about how femSheps never got to express love for Tali-
You know what? Too damn bad. And it's irrelevant anyway since it's Tali that expresses her feelings for Shepard first. If she didn't to femShep then that should tell you something.
Kolaris8472 wrote...
If you compare that interview with what's going on with a Female Shephard in both games, no, its certainly not solid. Another reason I doubt CEO's even know what's going on in the games their company makes beyond their prepared talking points.
Just to play the devil's advocate, it would depend on what attracts you in the alien species in the first place.WilliamShatner wrote...
And as I said before, if you can overlook the alien species bridge when looking for romance, the gender bridge isn't exactly a long one.
Invalidcode wrote...
You can determined Shepard's of course, but since when can other character's sexual preference be suddenly changed? I understand why some players what F/F with Tali, but suddenly change a character's sexual preference, it would be pretty weird (if not bad) writing.
It's kind of like Wrex suddenly become a LI and go both ways. Borderline wtf.
Fan support helped but the choice to make the LIs was probably made very early in development.Wittand25 wrote...
T1l wrote...
That's exactly right. You can either take it at face value and accept that Bioware have solid narrative with a main character called Shepard who is and isn't certain things; or not. People will believe what they want, and at the end of the day, threads like this will not stop until Mass Effect 3 gets launched and the trilogy is over.
Well it is proven that Bioware listens to their fans so there is hope that they will listen in this issue to ( not only Tali but generally same-sex relationships for both male and female )
The fan support made Tali and Garrus straight LI even though the game tells you at several occasions that such a match is plainly absurd and extremly dangerous for all three, shows that they are willing to bend the rules of the whole universe to give fans what they want.
T1l wrote...
Kolaris8472 wrote...
If you compare that interview with what's going on with a Female Shephard in both games, no, its certainly not solid. Another reason I doubt CEO's even know what's going on in the games their company makes beyond their prepared talking points.
Exactly what I mean. You can completely disregard the statement, even though it was addressed directly, and be about your merry way. You can claim the same thing about what Casey said about the Asari, too. "Oh, but he's just the Lead Producer - what would he know. He's not a writer."
It's entirely your prerogative to use or disregard the information that you have available to you; I'm not going to make you think one way or the other, but somehow I'm getting the impression you're not here for rational debate. Developer comments and in-game history be damned, you'll have your bi-sexual Tali!
Fair enough. I'm out.
T1l wrote...
Kolaris8472 wrote...
If you compare that interview with what's going on with a Female Shephard in both games, no, its certainly not solid. Another reason I doubt CEO's even know what's going on in the games their company makes beyond their prepared talking points.
Exactly what I mean. You can completely disregard the statement, even though it was addressed directly, and be about your merry way. You can claim the same thing about what Casey said about the Asari, too. "Oh, but he's just the Lead Producer - what would he know. He's not a writer."
It's entirely your prerogative to use or disregard the information that you have available to you; I'm not going to make you think one way or the other, but somehow I'm getting the impression you're not here for rational debate. Developer comments and in-game history be damned, you'll have your bi-sexual Tali!
Fair enough. I'm out.
Brahlis wrote...
TheShady wrote...
-Original message before editing about how femSheps never got to express love for Tali-
You know what? Too damn bad. And it's irrelevant anyway since it's Tali that expresses her feelings for Shepard first. If she didn't to femShep then that should tell you something.
But she isn't the first quarian to do that, we know this from Illium, we know that it is possible and has happened before Tali.Kolaris8472 wrote...
2nd post, 2-C: GO!
At this point Tali being open to a relationship with a female Shephard would be less of a stretch than Garrus becoming interested in Shephard in the first place, or Tali being willing to risk her health by taking her suit off. Or even the technological backpedalling to include Thermal Clips. If you think she is explicitly straight, then maybe its more of a stretch, but I also tried to prove what, at least, there has been no explicit proof on that point and in fact, there was implicit proof she's interested in a female Shephard.
I also tried to point out that her development in ME2 was already a case of bad writing.
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