617 réponses à ce sujet

[Naltair]

WilliamShatner wrote...
As for playing as male Shepard to romance Tali, I'd rather gnaw my hands off.   That punk doesn't deserve Tali.

Consider your stance ignored then, and I lump you in the category of selfish player probably male that wants lesbian action.

I don't think any gender is categorically better or worse but this is just insulting and does your stance a great disservice.

Modifié par Naltair, 09 février 2010 - 05:57 .

[Ruka13]

TheShady wrote...

Brahlis wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote ...
You value sexuality over morals, that's fine. From what we know of Tali up until the romance starts, she doesn't. That's why I consider it inconsistent. I suppose you could say that its a "revelation" that she's actually really just into hot hunks even if they're against what she stands for, but that's where I'd bring in that word "shallow".

You can love someone without being sexually interested in them. You know that right? That's why your entire argument about inconsistency is completely retarded. She loves femShep, but not in a sexual way. It's not that hard to get.

Did femSheps get a chance to express those feelings? No, only maleSheps do.

WilliamShatner wrote...

If you romance Tali as male Shepard she is straight.  If you romance her as female Shepard she is gay.

Of course that is if you look at it from human terms.  What's too say alien races even consider stuff like that. 

And as I said before, if you can overlook the alien species bridge when looking for romance, the gender bridge isn't exactly a long one.

Exactly!

We have 4 different Shepards, why not 4 different Talis?

*claps*

Precisely, well put.

Unfortunatly that's what people don't seem to want.

Cheers

[T1l]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

He did not. Address. Lesbian. Relationships. In ME1 OR ME2. 

It was not direct.

Well, again we'll have to agree to disagree. If you read what he said, he did address it directly as best he could in a manner fitting of the CEO of Bioware. He didn't tread on any toes, but the answer is there for anyone as plain as day in black and white. Whether you choose to accept that information or not, is, as I said, up to you.

And you haven't. That's fine, but like I said it's a clear indicator that you're not here for discussion. You're here to make a statement, and in that, I wish you luck.

[defenestrated]

Wittand25 wrote...

Well it is proven that Bioware listens to their fans so there is hope that they will listen in this issue to ( not only Tali but generally same-sex relationships for both male and female )
 The fan support made Tali and Garrus straight LI even though the game tells you at several occasions that such a match is plainly absurd and extremly dangerous for all three, shows that they are willing to bend the rules of the whole universe to give fans what they want.

I'm all in favor of adding new same-sex LIs in ME3 but the blatant fanservice if they make Tali a FemShep romance option, provided they don't make similar changes for a bunch of other LIs? Would ****** me off. Tali is a great character but she's one of many. The game does not begin and end with her.

[CyberEagle]

Brahlis wrote...
Mass Effect 2 has already established that Tali isn't sexually interested in femShep: FACT.

Mass Effect hasn't established anything regarding a Tali/FemShep-Romance, only telling the player how Tali would love to link suits with Shepards and then suddenly stopping any interaction between them. FACT.

Brahlis wrote...
That'd be like me ****ing about how I demand a gay Thane and Garrus
because they're my favorite characters and becuase of their
heterosexuality I don't get to experience their romance.

Yeah, that'd be awesome too, if Bioware did it.

[Kolaris8472]

Naltair wrote...
But she isn't the first quarian to do that, we know this from Illium, we know that it is possible and has happened before Tali.

Wait, what? When did that Quarian ever say she took her suit off? All we know on that point is that it has an insane list of health risks. 

Bad writing, or writing that does not suit my preferences?

It is writing that does not suit my preferences. My preferences being good writing. Not that whatever I like is good writing, rather...

Look, you're just going to play this off as engine restraints or whatnot, Tali was apparently written to judge people in ME2 solely on their gender or physical appearance while asking them to do differently for her. Its either bad writing, or shallow character development. 

[Naltair]

defenestrated wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Well it is proven that Bioware listens to their fans so there is hope that they will listen in this issue to ( not only Tali but generally same-sex relationships for both male and female )
 The fan support made Tali and Garrus straight LI even though the game tells you at several occasions that such a match is plainly absurd and extremly dangerous for all three, shows that they are willing to bend the rules of the whole universe to give fans what they want.

I'm all in favor of adding new same-sex LIs in ME3 but the blatant fanservice if they make Tali a FemShep romance option, provided they don't make similar changes for a bunch of other LIs? Would ****** me off. Tali is a great character but she's one of many. The game does not begin and end with her.

I agree though no one else will actually read this especially the diehard same sex Tali fans.

[TheShady]

Brahlis wrote...

TheShady wrote...
And that's exactly one major problem of ME2.

And Dragon Age is a bastard game as well becuase females can't get it on with Morrigan.

My agenda is not really with romance, it's about closure. Morrigan did tell me in great length that she now considers me a friend and all that cal. Screw the sex. That was satisfying enough.

Naltair wrote...

TheShady wrote...
Exactly!

We have 4 different Shepards, why not 4 different Talis?

So now every character  needs 4 versions?

Selfish.

Talk to me when you want to actually want to support same sex romances and not just your and others selfish desires.

1.) How is that selfish?
2.) We even have a multitude of different plot-lines (council died or not, collectors base saved or not). That's the entire point of the whole choices thing. Not talking specifically about Tali now but it comes down to the same thing. Options, choices, differences in playthroughs, variety, ...
3.) Read my posts... damnit...

Brahlis wrote...

TheShady wrote...
-Original message before editing about how femSheps never got to express love for Tali-

You know what? Too damn bad. And it's irrelevant anyway since it's Tali that expresses her feelings for Shepard first. If she didn't to femShep then that should tell you something.

What would that tell me? Could just tell me that the language translator failed and missed telling me something she said...

[Wittand25]

Naltair wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

T1l wrote...

That's exactly right. You can either take it at face value and accept that Bioware have solid narrative with a main character called Shepard who is and isn't certain things; or not. People will believe what they want, and at the end of the day, threads like this will not stop until Mass Effect 3 gets launched and the trilogy is over.

Well it is proven that Bioware listens to their fans so there is hope that they will listen in this issue to ( not only Tali but generally same-sex relationships for both male and female )
 The fan support made Tali and Garrus straight LI even though the game tells you at several occasions that such a match is plainly absurd and extremly dangerous for all three, shows that they are willing to bend the rules of the whole universe to give fans what they want. 

Fan support helped but the choice to make the LIs was probably made very early in development.

Game development is a dictatorship not a democracy, fans helped but if they really swayed them they would have been bi out the gate to quell the fans.  They didn't do that.

I dont believe that the existing LI will be changed ( actually I believe Tali the least likely to be bi from all the LI in ME2) but I  think that if Bioware would decide to change any of them to be available for male and female Shepards alike it would not require a major change of character or would be even recognizable unless you know that they were not alway bisexual.

[TheShady]

This text editor is weird....

Modifié par TheShady, 09 février 2010 - 06:06 .

[Kolaris8472]

T1l wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

He did not. Address. Lesbian. Relationships. In ME1 OR ME2. 

It was not direct.

Well, again we'll have to agree to disagree. If you read what he said, he did address it directly as best he could in a manner fitting of the CEO of Bioware. He didn't tread on any toes, but the answer is there for anyone as plain as day in black and white. Whether you choose to accept that information or not, is, as I said, up to you.

And you haven't. That's fine, but like I said it's a clear indicator that you're not here for discussion. You're here to make a statement, and in that, I wish you luck.

Alright, I'm still not getting you. Can you please section out specifically what you feel he said that indicates a Female Shephard is not bisexual because of third person narrative? That same third person narrative that lead her into as many as three lesbian encounters? 

Don't get me wrong, I did feel he put it quite strongly there will be no gay male shephards because of "third person narrative", as such encounters have not existed in the game before he said that. 

[WilliamShatner]

Naltair wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
As for playing as male Shepard to romance Tali, I'd rather gnaw my hands off.   That punk doesn't deserve Tali.

Consider your stance ignored then, and I lump you in the category of selfish player probably male that wants lesbian action.

I don't think any gender is categorically better or worse but this is just insulting and does your stance a great disservice.

Get over yourself Naltair.  I definitely think female Shepard is far superior and that male Shepard sounds like a soulness wooden board, that's mine opinion.  If you don't agree, fine.

And the romance scene with Tali with female Shepard would hardly equate to lesbian "action".

[WilliamShatner]

DP

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 09 février 2010 - 06:03 .

[tmp7704]

WilliamShatner wrote...

As for playing as male Shepard to romance Tali, I'd rather gnaw my hands off.   That punk doesn't deserve Tali.

Ehh, male and female Shepard are very much the same person wrapped in differently shaped piece of meat. If one of them is supposed to be "not good enough" because of nothing but that shape then... well, that's both shallow *and* irrational stance to take.

[Vanguard Alpha]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Err, dude, what spam pix? The guy posted it ONCE and was QUOTED. ONCE. Not quite spam.

No

Even once it is spam and the other guy quoted it with a spam pic of their own, it is disruptive, not funny, and simply lazy.

Oh the irony of people that spam to complain about spam!

[Naltair]

I read your posts, they are Tali same sex drivel.



I support your stance for closure though I think that the conversations should have been deeper and better.



But that has nothing to do with how the story plays out, the council dying is not the same thing as a character. I can accept that Wrex is not interested in my character romantically or other characters. No matter what "universe" I am in his character is fairly consistent.



There should not be alternate versions of every character to suit the whims of the fans that is what role playing is about interacting with people and you reacting top them. Not them being sex bots that love you no matter what.



By that logic I should be able to reveal her father as traitor and she should still love me.



Whoops that isn't the case.

[Unata]

Naltair wrote...

Unata wrote...

FemShep romance options are the pits all around.

An Armadillo she bumbs forheads with - Garrus

A reptile thats dieing and crying - Thane

An idiot that loves himself more then anyone else - Jacob

A Yoman that loves everyone - Kelly

The only one in ME2 that piqued my FShep's interests was Tali, just to be let down in the end...sigh

So are you saying male Shepard has better choices because if the opposite were true for a male player they were equally if not more so screwed.

Meaning they have no same sex outlet.

It really makes me laugh that people think that female gets screwed because they don't have a same sex choice they like while male Shepard has NONE.

I have no sympathy for you.

Nope, only saying they don't stir the same emotions, to me it shows a motherly kind of feeling not a romance, giving comfort as mom would if you broke your arm, with MShep the desire is sparked with his LI's, the conversations all lead towards that end with MShep, not so with FShep. Tali's conversations lead that way but end suddenly.

[Naltair]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Naltair wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
As for playing as male Shepard to romance Tali, I'd rather gnaw my hands off.   That punk doesn't deserve Tali.

Consider your stance ignored then, and I lump you in the category of selfish player probably male that wants lesbian action.

I don't think any gender is categorically better or worse but this is just insulting and does your stance a great disservice.

Get over yourself Naltair.  I definitely think female Shepard is far superior and that male Shepard sounds like a soulness wooden board, that's mine opinion.  If you don't agree, fine.

And the romance scene with Tali with female Shepard would hardly equate to lesbian "action".

Get over myself?  I am simply replying to your stance which makes your argument look worse by comparison,

[Wittand25]

defenestrated wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Well it is proven that Bioware listens to their fans so there is hope that they will listen in this issue to ( not only Tali but generally same-sex relationships for both male and female )
 The fan support made Tali and Garrus straight LI even though the game tells you at several occasions that such a match is plainly absurd and extremly dangerous for all three, shows that they are willing to bend the rules of the whole universe to give fans what they want.

I'm all in favor of adding new same-sex LIs in ME3 but the blatant fanservice if they make Tali a FemShep romance option, provided they don't make similar changes for a bunch of other LIs? Would ****** me off. Tali is a great character but she's one of many. The game does not begin and end with her.

I totaly agree with you, I am not intrested in the straight Tali option and would be even less intrested in a lesbian version, but I support profiding both a m/m and f/f option nomatter how (and if they would change Tali there is no excuse for not changing one of the males either).

[defenestrated]

tmp7704 wrote...

Ehh, male and female Shepard are very much the same person wrapped in differently shaped piece of meat. If one of them is supposed to be "not good enough" because of nothing but that shape then... well, that's both shallow *and* irrational stance to take.

Hey now, they've got a point. FemShep stopped Sovereign, Saren, saved a few colonies, and took down a Collector base. What'd MaleShep ever do?

[WilliamShatner]

tmp7704 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

As for playing as male Shepard to romance Tali, I'd rather gnaw my hands off.   That punk doesn't deserve Tali.

Ehh, male and female Shepard are very much the same person wrapped in differently shaped piece of meat. If one of them is supposed to be "not good enough" because of nothing but that shape then... well, that's both shallow *and* irrational stance to take.

If Meryl Streep and Jessica Alba performed the same script would you think the character was essentially the same person?  No, because a quality actor brings as much to a role as the lines they read.  I get far more out of playing as female Shepard than I do playing as male Shepard.  I hear a range of emotion, depth and subtlety in Hale's voice acting that isn't there in Meer's.  

[Abirn]

Soldier989 wrote...


Skip to 8:02 and listen, most of the stuff from 8:02 - 9:25 isn't ingame.

Bioware cut Tali/FemaleShepard romance from ME2, or something close to it.

If you want proof that FOX news got their slimy hands to effect this game then here it is.

[Kolaris8472]

Naltair wrote...

By that logic I should be able to reveal her father as traitor and she should still love me.

Whoops that isn't the case.

Right, because you'd expect her to judge you harshly over a decision that goes against everything she wants. 

Except...everywhere else in the game. 

[T1l]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Alright, I'm still not getting you. Can you please section out specifically what you feel he said that indicates a Female Shephard is not bisexual because of third person narrative? That same third person narrative that lead her into as many as three lesbian encounters? 

Don't get me wrong, I did feel he put it quite strongly there will be no gay male shephards because of "third person narrative", as such encounters have not existed in the game before he said that. 

This is the last post I make; it's getting late and I have readings to do.

Again, you're being selective in information you want to accept. Ray Muzyka states: "In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character."

I'd quote more, but it's there for you to read. It is inclusive of the female gender, not exclusive, but you choose to take it that way - and again, you can completely disregard the whole article and comment if you wish, and from the thread, I assume you will. I, nor anyone in this thread will change how you feel; that much is apparent. That's all good; it was an interesting discussion, despite going in circles. 'Night.

EDIT: To clarify, you're also assuming the Bioware developers see the previous relationships with Asari as female. They do not. That much has been stated by Casey Hudson; again, that information is in the above category as well. You either choose to accept that, or disregard it. Up to you.

Modifié par T1l, 09 février 2010 - 06:10 .

[Naltair]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

By that logic I should be able to reveal her father as traitor and she should still love me.

Whoops that isn't the case.

Right, because you'd expect her to judge you harshly over a decision that goes against everything she wants. 

Except...everywhere else in the game. 

But how is this different from any other romance?

I agree it SHOULD matter.

But it does not.

I want it to matter, but it does not.  It's obviously an engine limitation or just something they didn't really consider.