136 réponses à ce sujet

[Wardka]

Stanley Woo wrote...

 "Gameplay... WHAT???" You ask about strategies when Dragon Age provides far more options for strategy than BG2 did.

I mostly agree with you, Mr. Woo, except for this. BG2's mage battles, with the strategic and tactical peeling of magical defenses, counters, buffs and debuffs, and the enormous amount of consumable/usable items - not just for mages - made BG2's battles truly epic in terms of tactics. I think DA had amazing fights as well, but they can't topple BG2 off its well-deserved throne.

[bzombo]

baldur's gate was truly epic in nature. it also revolutionized crpgs. in many ways it is an icon of its time. i think it is possible we will look at dragon age in the same way for the present generation of games. dragon age in many ways is a return to bioware's roots. the scope and quality really shine through and are vintage bioware traits. in a amrket of short, dumbed down games, dragon age showed you can have an in depth, intelligent game and still get people to buy it and like it.

[SinYang]

Wardka wrote...
I mostly agree with you, Mr. Woo, except for this. BG2's mage battles, with the strategic and tactical peeling of magical defenses, counters, buffs and debuffs, and the enormous amount of consumable/usable items - not just for mages - made BG2's battles truly epic in terms of tactics. I think DA had amazing fights as well, but they can't topple BG2 off its well-deserved throne.

Casts Spook on firkraag.
Casts Cloudkill on every encounter off screen.
Uses Algernon's Cloak.
Equips Cloak of Mirroring.
Uses Anti magic scroll.
Uses Protection from undead scroll.
Casts Projected Image/Simulacrum.
Casts Mislead/Improved invisibility.
Edit: Damn it, now the Jaheira romance just broke my game in chapter 6.

Modifié par SinYang, 09 février 2010 - 08:38 .

[Realmzmaster]

The OP made me laugh! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have played CRPGs starting with ones on the Apple II. (Yeah, I am that old). I was old school before there was old school. Along with playing p n p (AD & D, T & T, Fanasty Trip, GURPS , RuneQuest etc).

I have played BG1, BG2 and all the expansions, Alternate Reality: City and Dungeon, all the Gold Box games, Wizard's Crown. IceWind Dale 1 & II and a host of others on a variety of machines from Apple II to Atari ST. (Just to establish my credentials.)

I number DA:O up there with the very best CRPGs. I am on my fourth playthrough and still enjoying myself. I love the story. Yes, it is set up in the first part of the game. But that is the point you know where you are going to end up, but how you get there is the journey. The journey in DA:O is enjoyable. The decisions you make drive the intermediate parts of the story and have an effect on the end.

Everybody wants to compare DA:O with BG1 and BG2. What is really being compared is D & D with BioWare's new IP.

I ask the OP why should my mages have to rest 8 hours to regain spells or mana. Did the mage all of sudden forget the words of the spell? This always smack me as silly in D & D.

Why do I need umpteeth number of classes?

What is being expected is that DA:O would have a D & D basis. Why? Because that is what people are familar with. But there are p n p RPGs that did not rely on the D & D formula. I played them and have a different perspective. I know the good and bad design choices.

Even D & D had to evolve over time. The games must evolve to match the perceived audience.

The market has changed, the audience has changed the games must change.

[Kalfear]

David Gaider wrote...

All those extra exclamation points do really help to drive home your message. Thanks for the feedback.

But !!!!!!
David!!!!!!!
Everyone!!!!!!
Agrees!!!!!!
With!!!!!!!
him!!!!!!
Just !!!!!!!!
Ask!!!!!!!
Him!!!!!
He!!!!!!!
Will!!!!!!
Tell!!!!!!
you!!!!!!!

Am I the only one of the those that actually are old enough to remember Baldurs Gate that just shrugs and says to themself "sure you are" when these obvious kids start off posts telling us how hardcore/oldschool RPGers they are and they played BG.

LOL, tell me about how you played Curse of the Azure Bonds and Pool of Radience (great games), or Might and Magic 1(anouther great game), then I might be impressed, probably not but a better chance of it anyways.

As for story in DA:O, I can see someone not liking DA:O. I can see shooter fans getting annoyed with tactical combat in DA:O, but I just cant take anoyone who says the story weak or terrible seriously because the story isnt weak or terrible. Might not be someones cup of tea but that doesnt make it terrible!

I recently gave up trying to read Dantes Inferno, does that mean its poorly written and a terrible book? Of course not, its a classic for all ages. Just Italian poetry and me not mix appearently.

[mcharj11]

sleepforever wrote...

Stippling wrote...

Dragon Age Origins is one of the best games I've ever played. The OP needs to get his head on straight.

well, maybe your are noob man :S:S

sorry i mean no offence !! but when you started with the Awesome quality we had before you will ask for perfection ...

and i just learned it was not the same team who worked on Dragon Age ! The team who worked on BG moved to obsidian!!!

Oh My God!! ... I think I'll go with Obsidian now:o! Why they left!! Damn ! I'll go wherever they go!

Link please?

BioWare said quite a few times that the DAO team was pretty much the same guys that worked on BG and BG II and the same lead.

Obsidian are made up of former Black Isle devs, the guys behind Icewind Dale, Fallout, Lionheart, ect.

[Excalibut_2102]

I know Im not the only one who thinks DA:O is the best single player RPG experience since BG 1/2 and fallout. Heck, virtually every one of my mates say the same thing, and its also been said on gamebanshee (DA won goty 2009) which is VERY harsh towards alot of modern RPGs.



The fact is, while you're entitled to your opinion, you're in the minority OP. Baldurs gate for me was my first RPG, and still probably reigns as the one I enjoyed the most. But I have no problem saying DA:O is in my top lists.

[Excalibut_2102]

mcharj11 wrote...

sleepforever wrote...

Stippling wrote...

Dragon Age Origins is one of the best games I've ever played. The OP needs to get his head on straight.

well, maybe your are noob man :S:S

sorry i mean no offence !! but when you started with the Awesome quality we had before you will ask for perfection ...

and i just learned it was not the same team who worked on Dragon Age ! The team who worked on BG moved to obsidian!!!

Oh My God!! ... I think I'll go with Obsidian now:o! Why they left!! Damn ! I'll go wherever they go!

Link please?

BioWare said quite a few times that the DAO team was pretty much the same guys that worked on BG and BG II and the same lead.

Obsidian are made up of former Black Isle devs, the guys behind Icewind Dale, Fallout, Lionheart, ect.

Oh, and its black Isle who are now in obsidian, they worked on BG along side bioware, but as far as Im aware didnt have a hand in BG2. 

[Capt. Klef]

uh-wahhhh uh-wahhh. STOP YOUR WHINING like a girly man

[snoopycop]

Dragon Age origins rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jaymo147]

LOL!

[Yozaro]

Only noticed the amount of exclamation marks and decided not to read his post.

Don't think I missed anything intellectual and productive.

[TheKnave69]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The OP made me laugh! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have played CRPGs starting with ones on the Apple II. (Yeah, I am that old).

Apple II?  I was a C64 guy myself.  Color you see.

[WestOhooligan]

@ OP: Egrish prz.

[Postponderance]

It's inevitable: soon, they will give up on words entirely, and fill the message boards of the internet with posts composed entirely of punctuation. It'll be like 1337 all over again, but worse.

[Realmzmaster]

@Kalfear,

Wonderful! Someone else who remembers the Gold Box games. When your party had to hack through rows upon rows of orcs! MIght and Magic 1, Wizardry and Bards Tale where you could only save in the tavern or inn. Alternate Reality:City and Dungeon where you had banks. If you were low on cash you could get a job!

Now if we could get a CRPG that did all of that. It would be like, Oh! real life! Never mind! Lets go back to killing the orcs!

[sleepforever]

bzombo wrote...

sleepforever wrote...

Stippling wrote...

Dragon Age Origins is one of the best games I've ever played. The OP needs to get his head on straight.

well, maybe your are noob man :S:S

sorry i mean no offence !! but when you started with the Awesome quality we had before you will ask for perfection ...

and i just learned it was not the same team who worked on Dragon Age ! The team who worked on BG moved to obsidian!!!

Oh My God!! ... I think I'll go with Obsidian now:o! Why they left!! Damn ! I'll go wherever they go!

not entirely true. bioware and black isle worked on the baldur's gate 2 game. black isle was closed by interplay and many of them did go to obsidian. david gaider was a writer on bg2 and he is the lead writer of dragon age for bioware. there are others, if i remember correctly, that are at bioware still that worked on at least one of the bg series games if not both. i think some may have even worked on da as well.

edit: if i remember correctly, i think i saw an interview somewhere with one of the old black isle people where they said the did some testing of the bg games for bioware. the bioware and black isle logos are both on the game box. black isle did iwd and ps:t on their own for interplay.

oooooh!!! Wow you are soo right!!! Thanks! I never really cared who did the game because until their to last games i never complained! Never! It's the first time I don't feel ok with their product!!!

[Valmy]

Kalfear wrote...
LOL, tell me about how you played Curse of the Azure Bonds and Pool of Radience (great games), or Might and Magic 1(anouther great game), then I might be impressed, probably not but a better chance of it anyways.

I played all those games

Pool of Radiance was tons better than Curse of the Azure Bonds though.  Heck I started playing The Bard's Tale and Wizardry: The Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.  Those games were really hard for a seven year old.

But yet I do not really consider myself some sort of old guard RPGer fighting against every innovation in the genre.

[Realmzmaster]

@TheKnave69,
Color! New fangled invention! Next you will talking about sound chips and graphic cards!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You ask about strategies when Dragon Age provides far more options for strategy than BG2 did.

Dragon Age certainly provides more options for tactics than BG2 did.  The Glyph line alone creates more tactical options than you'll ever see in a D&D adaptation.

As far as strategy goes, the OP is correct.  DAO's design specifically favours tactical planning over strategic planning.  Georg mentioned this several times during development.  There is almost no requirement for strategy in DAO.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Valmy wrote...

Heck I started playing The Bard's Tale and Wizardry: The Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.  Those games were really hard for a seven year old.

Wizardry was really hard for everyone.

And then you couldn't even play Wizardy II unless you'd finished Wizardry.  The second game required a completed save from the first game in order to work.

[Isavald]

Simply put in this users eyes, BG is the best game ever and it really doesn't matter what Bioware would have made it would have been a complete failure in his eyes. Now if they had slapped the title "Baldur's Gate 3" instead of Dragon Age on it, probably would have gotten an amazing review. 

[Llane Lightbringer]

OMGZ GOLD BOX!!!

Those were the days.

Champions of Krynn and even Eye of the Beholder (the first two, though those were a different generation already) were some of my favourites, as well.

Times have indeed changed, but there's still great games out there. In ten years from now people will probably boast about the "golden age" of Dragon Age: Origins and complain that it's just not the same anymore, too. Now THAT will be fun. As long as it won't remind you that you're getting too old.

Modifié par Llane Lightbringer, 09 février 2010 - 09:28 .

[Thoronen]

Apple IIc Telengard(sp?) anyone?



Azure Bonds was hell for a paladin, though a good DM could make redeeming yourself a long and drawn out event...



I thoroughly enjoyed Traveller, that's a classic I'd like to see done with modern technology.