Aller au contenu

Photo

The five flaws of Mass Effect 2


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
244 réponses à ce sujet

#1
periaqueductal_gray

periaqueductal_gray
  • Members
  • 4 messages
The excellence of Mass Effect 2 has been well documented.  A quick perusal of Game Rankings reveals a littany of celebratory reviews, for the most part well deserved.  A lesser product would not be worth this type of analysis.  But usually negative feedback is considerably more valuable than positive, so here we go:

1. Exploration

  A large part of the appeal of space is the utter massiveness of it.   It speaks to something deep in our psyche, the sense that it is too grand and wonderful to truly grasp.   Say what you want about the Mako sequences of the original Mass Effect, but they gave the game a sense of scope that is missing in this one.  There was a certain elegance, a lonely grandeur to being the only living thing on a distant unknown planet.  I also think that we as gamers like the sense of freedom, of not always being railroaded to our destination. The key change should have been to add variety to these planets, not cut them altogether.

2. Story

The story of the original Mass Effect was an extremely well done, if predictable, affair.  But at least there was a story.  In Mass Effect 2, the endgame is clearly visible from the very beginning.  What followed in the subsequent hours can only be described as a giant intergalectic Pokemon quest, 30 some-odd hours of collecting and powering up characters.  From a lesser studio we would have no reason to complain, but Bioware has such a long history of fascinating tales that I can only wish they had been more ambitious.  The game moved in fits and starts, largely because each quest was a discrete mission with no bearing on the overall goal. 

3. Relationships

Bioware has become adept at the dialogue of seduction.  In fact, they have become so comfortable with this formula that we can now seduce and romance no less than seven characters.  However, they have proven to be shockingly tone deaf when it come to dealing with characters already in relationships.  In life, as in most art, relationships become truly interesting after a couple has hooked up, when one finds all the hidden flaws and unxepected delights that had been previously hidden.  The fact that no dialogue was included even acknowledging your previous relationship is quite frankly unforgivable.  Presumably the writers were trying to show a rocky part of the relationship, but even fights and hurt feelings would have preferable to this. 

4.  Simplicity

I hesitate to include this because it was quite obviously the dev's mantra while making this game.  But they took an ideal and ran a little to far with it.  Penny Arcade made an apt comparison to Deus Ex 2, another game that streamlined a bit too much.  Thankfully we console owners are more forgiving than our PC brethren, who view any retreat from complexity as a form of apostasy.  But there is precious little role playing in this role playing game.  One of the great features of RPG's is that as the challenge progresses, your toolbox of skills expands accordingly.  In Mass Effect 2 my strategy was pretty much the same at level 3 as it was at 23. 

5. Immersion

This one is the most difficult to define, but it is also by far the most important.  In one sense it is an amalgamation of the previous four items, and something else entirely.  It is believability. When a character who professed fierce devotion to me last game can't seem to recall that anything happened, it snaps me out my immersion. When the dev's can be bothered to include both genders of a species, I stop and wonder why.  When cities resemble not so much livible entities, but rather meticulously designed corridors to shuttle us to our next checkpoint, it breaks my immersion.  When the only house on Omega is the one I am looking for, I feel like stopping and doing something else.  This is one reason I enjoyed Assassin's Creed, despite the dev's apparent neglect to include an actual gameplay mechanism.  It just felt like I was really in 10th-century Palestine.  Believablility should never be sacrificed on the altar of expediency. 

All games are just nuts and bolts under the surface, but the truly great ones make efforts to hide these in a seamless gameplay experience.  Mass Effect 2, by virtue of packing everything into neat, discretely contained particles, draws attention to these inner mechanisms.  After one character I know everything I need to do to obtain the loyalty or pursue a romance with anyone remaining on my team.  It is is a kinetically enjoyable, but rather soulless, experience.  It has the feel of something that has been thinktanked to death, and any subsequent shards of genius polished off as well.  It falls just short of that illusive quality we like to label as 'art'.

Modifié par periaqueductal_gray, 09 février 2010 - 08:00 .

  • Vykier aime ceci

#2
Frotality

Frotality
  • Members
  • 1 057 messages
most excellent read OP.

agreed on all points..really cant add much more, you summed it up quite nicely.

#3
bjdbwea

bjdbwea
  • Members
  • 3 251 messages
Yes, completely agree with all five points.

#4
Zhaocore

Zhaocore
  • Members
  • 168 messages
Posted Image

#5
Pocketgb

Pocketgb
  • Members
  • 1 466 messages
1. When all planets are more or less the same thing - nothing but terrain, with some planets that are indeed copy-pasted - exploration kind gets kicked in the balls for me. I only liked exploring for the skyboxes, everything else could diaf.

2. ME1: Finding out the true purpose of the Conduit was pretty effing lame. The revalations revealed at the end of ME2 were crazy as hell. Different strokes for different folks, though, since ME2's story had a different focus.

3. Agreed. At least the romances in ME2 are much more refined.

4. Agreed, until I apted up the difficulty setting. Curve could ineed use a bit of work, but at least NG+ isn't a cakewalk than it was in ME1 (which was a COMPLETE cakewalk). ME2 is much, much, much more challenging than ME1 overall.

5. Pretty subjective, since it's been awhile since I've been so easily taken in by a game.

Modifié par Pocketgb, 09 février 2010 - 07:18 .


#6
Ekyri

Ekyri
  • Members
  • 312 messages

Pocketgb wrote...


2. ME1: Finding out the true purpose of the Conduit was pretty effing lame. The revalations revealed at the end of ME2 were crazy as hell. Different strokes for different folks, though, since ME2's story had a different focus.


What, you didn't know they was coming?

#7
Faust1979

Faust1979
  • Members
  • 2 397 messages
there is a ton of roleplaying in this game. You choose how your character acts and how he reacts to characters and situations. Also I'm glad Mass Effect 2 was easier because Dragon Age even on the causual setting is frustrating. So far it's the only Bioware game I couldn't beat

#8
Pocketgb

Pocketgb
  • Members
  • 1 466 messages

Ekyri wrote...

What, you didn't know they was coming?


Obviously can't list here what I wasn't expecting because of spoilers.

#9
Wintermist

Wintermist
  • Members
  • 2 655 messages
Posted Image

#10
nicodeemus327

nicodeemus327
  • Members
  • 770 messages

But there is precious little role playing in this role playing game.

What. This game has more role playing in the first half hour then most "traditional RPGs" have in entire game.

There's plenty of other things I could pick apart but its not worth it.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 07:44 .


#11
jienoma

jienoma
  • Members
  • 29 messages
Very well written, absolutely very well written and i agree on every single point.

Modifié par jienoma, 09 février 2010 - 07:47 .


#12
Asguardwolf

Asguardwolf
  • Members
  • 25 messages
was a bit easy ME2 didnt really get into it managed to romance all the female characters in the same game dump one pick another and also according to my Save Game only took just over 4 hours to complete the game from rebirth to end kinda sucked expected a couple of days of entertainment. At least ME1 gave me a few days of enjoyment

#13
nicodeemus327

nicodeemus327
  • Members
  • 770 messages

Asguardwolf wrote...

was a bit easy ME2 didnt really get into it managed to romance all the female characters in the same game dump one pick another and also according to my Save Game only took just over 4 hours to complete the game from rebirth to end kinda sucked expected a couple of days of entertainment. At least ME1 gave me a few days of enjoyment


You missed about 90% of the game if you only got 4 hours out of it.

#14
Guest_Free Gobbie_*

Guest_Free Gobbie_*
  • Guests

periaqueductal_gray wrote...

The excellence of Mass Effect 2 has been well documented.  A quick perusal of Game Rankings reveals a littany of celebratory reviews, for the most part well deserved.  A lesser product would not be worth this type of analysis.  But usually negative feedback is considerably more valuable than positive, so here we go:

1. Exploration

  A large part of the appeal of space is the utter massiveness of it.   It speaks to something deep in our psyche, the sense that it is too grand and wonderful to truly grasp.   Say what you want about the Mako sequences of the original Mass Effect, but they gave the game a sense of scope that is missiing in this one.  There was a certain elegance, a lonely grandeur to being the only living thing on a distant unknown planet.  I also think that we as gamers like the sense of freeedom, of not always being railroaded to our destination. The key change should have been to add variety to these planets, not cut them altogether.


I enjoyed reading your post, but your explanation of Exploration hit me in that little spot somewhere in my chest.

#15
periaqueductal_gray

periaqueductal_gray
  • Members
  • 4 messages

nicodeemus327 wrote...

But there is precious little role playing in this role playing game.

What. This game has more role playing in the first half hour then most "traditional RPGs" have in entire game.

There's plenty of other things I could pick apart but its not worth it.



We are talking about two different things ... you are absolutely correct when referring to the decisions you choose during dialogue, which affect your character and have real repercussions during the game.  I was speaking in the broad 'character development' sense; there is minimal ability to advance and tailor your character's skills as the game progresses. 

#16
Asguardwolf

Asguardwolf
  • Members
  • 25 messages
nope scanned planets did a load of missions on them and followups did all teams loyalty quests did the random pickups in main quests that lead to other quests

#17
nicodeemus327

nicodeemus327
  • Members
  • 770 messages

Asguardwolf wrote...

nope scanned planets did a load of missions on them and followups did all teams loyalty quests did the random pickups in main quests that lead to other quests


That took you more then 4 hours.

#18
tommythetomcat

tommythetomcat
  • Members
  • 1 398 messages

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Asguardwolf wrote...

nope scanned planets did a load of missions on them and followups did all teams loyalty quests did the random pickups in main quests that lead to other quests


That took you more then 4 hours.


Why do you bother? honestly :lol:

#19
nicodeemus327

nicodeemus327
  • Members
  • 770 messages

periaqueductal_gray wrote...

We are talking about two different things ... you are absolutely correct when referring to the decisions you choose during dialogue, which affect your character and have real repercussions during the game.  I was speaking in the broad 'character development' sense; there is minimal ability to advance and tailor your character's skills as the game progresses. 


Roleplaying != character progression. Huge, huge difference. Also you're missing something (or playing on casual) if you don't think character progression exists. You certainly felt stronger at the end of the game compared to the beginning.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 08:02 .


#20
EternalWolfe

EternalWolfe
  • Members
  • 410 messages
First of all, congratulations, your post is well-written, thought out, and not derisive towards others who don't hold the same opinion. Could use more of that here.

1. Exploration in one was limited by the copy-pasted and drab worlds, with copy-pasted and drab side-mission(50 of same bunker, whee!). I do agree though that ME2 lacks exploration in the form of space. I was also a little dissappointed that I didn't get to see any of my old stomping grounds. More open and explorable worlds that are intresting and unique enough to avoid making it boring, that is what I'd like to see.

2. Agreed. The way I explained it to my friends was that the story lacked cohesion and a strong central element to tie it all together. In ME1, the story surrounded Saren and stopping him, everything of the main plot was about getting to him before its too late. In ME2, the story surround going here, pick up this character, go there and pick up that character. They stories themselves are well-done, but seemed to miss actually connecting to one another. My journal felt like a checklist.

3. I can agree with this. No more to say, really.

4. I agree with Pocketgb on this one, but I think I see where your coming from. The game could definitly have some more expansion in how the battles play out as you level up. New skills, and new battles.

5. This is pretty much opinion, eye of the beholder and all that.

Modifié par EternalWolfe, 09 février 2010 - 08:03 .


#21
nicodeemus327

nicodeemus327
  • Members
  • 770 messages

tommythetomcat wrote...

Why do you bother? honestly :lol:


Now that is a good question. I wish I had an answer.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 08:03 .


#22
Faust1979

Faust1979
  • Members
  • 2 397 messages

tommythetomcat wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Asguardwolf wrote...

nope scanned planets did a load of missions on them and followups did all teams loyalty quests did the random pickups in main quests that lead to other quests


That took you more then 4 hours.


Why do you bother? honestly :lol:


it took me 26 hours to complete the game doing the loyalty missions and other side quests. 

#23
The Chosen Predator

The Chosen Predator
  • Members
  • 190 messages
Great post from the OP.

#24
Murmillos

Murmillos
  • Members
  • 706 messages
Great post OP.



The problem is not that ME2 is ME2, is that ME2 differs greatly from ME1. ME2 if you never knew anything about ME1 stands on its own as a fantastic game. There is just so much changed, gutted, chucked and removed for the sake of doing so.



Most of ME1 complaints wanted something slightly fixed to the already existing set up.



Mako driving was boring because the worlds where boring - you should have made more fun to explore worlds with water and lava and tree and cliffs. And improve on the structures found/explored. Not gut out free roaming exploring for short hand held simplistic simple path missions.



People had a problem with the inventory because there was too much glut. Too many worthless manufactures and minuscule upgrades. Gutting the inventory system wasn't the way to go, you should have streamlined and focused the weapons/upgrades into something meaningful - and less annoying.

#25
jienoma

jienoma
  • Members
  • 29 messages

nicodeemus327 wrote...

periaqueductal_gray wrote...

We are talking about two different things ... you are absolutely correct when referring to the decisions you choose during dialogue, which affect your character and have real repercussions during the game.  I was speaking in the broad 'character development' sense; there is minimal ability to advance and tailor your character's skills as the game progresses. 


Roleplaying != character progression. Huge, huge difference. Also you're missing something (or playing on casual) if you don't think character progression exists. You certainly felt stronger at the end of the game compared to the beginning.


I strongly disagree, RPG is a set of rules that are used to define a genre, RPG is character developement and progression through skills, itemization and levels. If it's only the story that defines an RPG even Half Life could be a glorious role playing game. Since the times of Ultima to the last Dragon Age, the whole definition of RPG is very well written in more than 20 years of gaming industry.

Is hard to define ME2 an RPG, it has something of it in the shallow skill developement, but is still to few to keep entretained the hungry roleplay crowd that has been nourished with games like Ultima, Morrowind, NWN and who remembers what games i've played in the last 20 years, i've lost the count... and the short/long term memory.

Just to understand what i mean, is not because i don't consider ME2 an RPG, i don't have to like it, nor have you, it's simply a consideration, you can appreciate a game beyond its genre, more precisely, it's not a genre that makes a game great, still in my opinion, i can't look at ME2 without thinking to the huge opportunity they've thrown away in the process of simplification to appeal a larger share of gamers.

I apologize for my terrible english :whistle: