244 réponses à ce sujet

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...
So that little end of mission splash screen is what prevents ME 2 from being an RPG? Also, you weren't foreced back to the ship. They would ask you if wanted to head back. Did you just miss that part?

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now.

Yes, I was.  I was never asked if I wanted to head back.  NOT BLOODY ONCE.  It is not just that little end mission splash screen.  It is everything they removed.  Removal of the inventory system.  Removal of being able to armor up your squad.  Removal of exploration.  Removal after removal of what made ME1 a RPG, damn it.  IT IS THE WHOLE FRAKIN' THING!

ME2 is not a CRPG.  It is a TPS.

The only thing that is actually true in this post is the removal of squad armor cusomization. Stop trolling.

[MagusDK]

jienoma wrote...

I can even add that the continuation of many plot left unfinished in the first, Rakni Queen... (edited out)

I got something about the Rachni plot line...

[Killian Kalthorne]

So now you are crying that I am trolling? Only reason you are saying that I am trolling because you know I am right and you wouldn't want to admit that you are wrong now.



ME2 is not a CRPG. There are not enough RP elements for it be considered a CRPG. As someone who has played all of Bioware's CRPGs in the past and countless others from various developers, I can say with true wholeheartedness that ME2 is not a CRPG, but a TPS. Cry all you want otherwise, Nico, but that will not change that fact.

[Dewarren2010]

Thank you for puttting critisism while not being a troll in the process , and too tell you the truth I agree with most of these points. ME2 was amazing  and a lot more polished, but It had some issues that brought it from being a 10/10 (which hopefully will be adressed in the next game). The characters were amazing, some of the best that bioware has made yet, but it did feel like you were just doing sidequest half of the time. It would be great if it was more driven on story missions with the recruitment missions being actaual sidequest, abeit sidequest that are incouraged greatly to keep pushing the game forward.

Modifié par Dewarren2010, 09 février 2010 - 11:18 .

[gotthammer]

I agree w/ all the OP's points.

[rabidhanar]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

So that little end of mission splash screen is what prevents ME 2 from being an RPG? Also, you weren't forced back to the ship. It would ask you if wanted to head back. Did you just miss that part?

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now.

Actually, after every last teamate mission you were required to return to the ship, in fact about 80 or more percent of the missions required you to return to the ship. Every last mission in which you had to go to a different area on a planet (loyalty missions, main quest missions, etc.), you were required to return to the ship. In fact I can only remember 4 missions that occured in which I did not have to return to the ship.

Also that "little end of mission splash screen" really broke all emersion (sp?) in the game for me. I would get hooked by the dialogue or the combat, but as soon as I finished the mission that screen popped up reminding me that I was playing the game. That screen is my emersion bane.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

So now you are crying that I am trolling? Only reason you are saying that I am trolling because you know I am right and you wouldn't want to admit that you are wrong now.

ME2 is not a CRPG. There are not enough RP elements for it be considered a CRPG. As someone who has played all of Bioware's CRPGs in the past and countless others from various developers, I can say with true wholeheartedness that ME2 is not a CRPG, but a TPS. Cry all you want otherwise, Nico, but that will not change that fact.

Not my fault all but one of your arguments are bs.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Whatever, Nico. I know you are wrong and that you are simply self-delusional. Sad really.



Rabidhanar, you hit it on the head, but Nico won't let the fact that ME2 is not a CRPG sink in. Simple denial.

[nicodeemus327]

rabidhanar wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

So that little end of mission splash screen is what prevents ME 2 from being an RPG? Also, you weren't forced back to the ship. It would ask you if wanted to head back. Did you just miss that part?

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now.

Actually, after every last teamate mission you were required to return to the ship, in fact about 80 or more percent of the missions required you to return to the ship. Every last mission in which you had to go to a different area on a planet (loyalty missions, main quest missions, etc.), you were required to return to the ship. In fact I can only remember 4 missions that occured in which I did not have to return to the ship.

Also that "little end of mission splash screen" really broke all emersion (sp?) in the game for me. I would get hooked by the dialogue or the combat, but as soon as I finished the mission that screen popped up reminding me that I was playing the game. That screen is my emersion bane.

ME2 give you the option of staying around to explore or heading back to the ship. Sometimes you could walk back to the ship iirc and some you couldn't.

I agree with the end of missions screen. It breaks emersion (immersion - whatever). I don't think that stops ME2 from being an RPG.

90% of the RPG elements from ME1 are in ME2. The numbers and implementation is just different.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 11:25 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

How a game is implemented and presented is what makes it what genre it belongs to, Nico. How ME2 is implemented and presented to the players is more akin to a TPS than a CRPG.  ME2 has more in common to Gears of War than Dragon Age while ME1 has more in common with Dragon Age than Gears of War.

Modifié par Killian Kalthorne, 09 février 2010 - 11:26 .

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How a game is implemented and presented is what makes it what genre it belongs to, Nico. How ME2 is implemented and presented to the players is more akin to a TPS than a CRPG.

It provides both action and RPG elements just like ME1 did. The majority of the elements ME1 had are in ME2.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 11:26 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

It provides both action and RPG elements just like ME1 did.

No.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

It provides both action and RPG elements just like ME1 did.

No.

Thoughtful.

[bjdbwea]

The question if ME 2 is still an RPG or not has no meaning whatsoever to the five points the OP made, all of which are very true regardless.

[Jlcebrian]

Excellent post.



ME2 is a very good and enjoyable action game, but there is no RPG to be seen. It is Gears of War with conversations, and this is neither what I expected nor what I paid for. And by the way, a game genre is not defined by some conveniently vague definitions: a genre is defined as a great game plus its imitators. Remove the features of the originals and you're out.



If ME3 persists in this line of "progress", it will be bargain bin material for me.

[MagusDK]

I miss crouching.

[Sirsmirkalot]

I agree with what the OP said.

[Killian Kalthorne]

The core of a CRPG is exploring new places, killing what lives there, getting experience for it, and liberally looting their homes and corpses. A solid story and plot is just icing on the cake.

[jienoma]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

jienoma wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...


The only major difference is that you cannot customize the armor of squadmates and you cannot sell stuff.

That is a significant difference.  If this is what we are to expect in ME3 then I am waiting for ME3 to hit the bargain bin.

I don't think selling stuff is a significant problem. In fact I like it. I had to watch my money in ME 2 while in ME 1 I had so much money that buying anything was a non-issue. As I've said before, I 100%agree that not being able to cusmoize squad armor is a major problem.

It could have been handled better, less trash loot to sell, a more refined economy was needed, they've resolved the issue making money being a fixed amount per quest and side quest in such a way they always know how many money you'll end at the end of the game. Oversimplification is not always the better way to handle a problem, easyer for sure

Did you really find trash drops to be fun? I didn't.

It in end its the same thing. You x amount of trash drops during a typical play though. That yields y amount of money. Instead you get y amount of money and don't have to deal with the hassle of managing trash drops. Maybe you find trash drops fun. I don't.

I know we have had a very bad experience with ME1 and even DA:O, i don't find trash loot to be fun at all, i've spent countless time in my RPG and even MMORPG gamer life selecting usefull loot to keep and trash loot to thrown away because i had no more space in my inventory.
There is a more practical way, imho, to handle the problem instead of hacking the inventory from a game, less loot and better interface.

ME1 was a pain because of the poor, very poor interface, can't remember how worked on X-Box360, but on pc you have to select the loot you want to transform in omnigel, hit the delete button with the mouse, confirm, select the other item, hit the button... do it 150 times and you've a pretty well idea on how you'll end at the end of the process... it's almost scaring. Plus everything is on the same page of the inventory, to sell weapons and armors upgrades it's even worse.A better interface and a better loot table can make a huge difference.

There is another thing, the fact that a good loot system can be rewarding, if once in a while you find something interesting, a rare weapon or armor, if some boss drop you something worthy is, in my opinion, much better than nothing as in ME2.

And just to point a thing i've seen today, itemization is still in the hearts of many, just look at how many people have posted for the free new DLC of an armor and weapon this evening (gmt +1 here). Can't say i'm surprised.

There are too few armor and weapons in ME2 at the point that MW2 has more weapon, and i see the whole thing at last strange.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

The core of a CRPG is exploring new places, killing what lives there, getting experience for it, and liberally looting their homes and corpses. A solid story and plot is just icing on the cake.

All of this is in ME2.

[nicodeemus327]

jienoma wrote...

I know we have had a very bad experience with ME1 and even DA:O, i don't find trash loot to be fun at all, i've spent countless time in my RPG and even MMORPG gamer life selecting usefull loot to keep and trash loot to thrown away because i had no more space in my inventory.
There is a more practical way, imho, to handle the problem instead of hacking the inventory from a game, less loot and better interface.

I feel that's what ME2 has develiered. You loot/buy weapon and armor upgrades. Certainly cuts the amount of loot down. I guess it was too much?

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 11:42 .

[jienoma]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

jienoma wrote...

I know we have had a very bad experience with ME1 and even DA:O, i don't find trash loot to be fun at all, i've spent countless time in my RPG and even MMORPG gamer life selecting usefull loot to keep and trash loot to thrown away because i had no more space in my inventory.
There is a more practical way, imho, to handle the problem instead of hacking the inventory from a game, less loot and better interface.

I feel that's what ME2 has develiered. You loot/buy weapon and armor upgrades. Certainly cuts the amount of loot down. I guess it was too much?

For what it concerns me, yes there is always a middle way, latins said "in medio stat virtus" that means "the virtue is in the middle". You still loot an amount of 1 pistol, why not 4 or 5, why not give the opportunity to have even small differences between weapons and armors in damage/defence stats, but very different appearance?

Why not give some trash loot to sell for extra cash, in my first playtrough i've missed something, and thanks the lack of backtracking, i couldn't be able to buy all the upgrades i saw.
They don't want to reintroduce trash loot or whatever we want to call it, why not to give us the opportunity to sell some minerals, given the fact they'll change a bit the whole mining system that is pretty boring.

[Killian Kalthorne]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

The core of a CRPG is exploring new places, killing what lives there, getting experience for it, and liberally looting their homes and corpses. A solid story and plot is just icing on the cake.

All of this is in ME2.

Really?  So tell me where I can go to sell all my loot?  Also, tell me, what corpses did you loot.  I wasn't able to loot a single corpse.

[nicodeemus327]

jienoma wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

jienoma wrote...

I know we have had a very bad experience with ME1 and even DA:O, i don't find trash loot to be fun at all, i've spent countless time in my RPG and even MMORPG gamer life selecting usefull loot to keep and trash loot to thrown away because i had no more space in my inventory.
There is a more practical way, imho, to handle the problem instead of hacking the inventory from a game, less loot and better interface.

I feel that's what ME2 has develiered. You loot/buy weapon and armor upgrades. Certainly cuts the amount of loot down. I guess it was too much?

For what it concerns me, yes there is always a middle way, latins said "in medio stat virtus" that means "the virtue is in the middle". You still loot an amount of 1 pistol, why not 4 or 5, why not give the opportunity to have even small differences between weapons and armors in damage/defence stats, but very different appearance?

Why not give some trash loot to sell for extra cash, in my first playtrough i've missed something, and thanks the lack of backtracking, i couldn't be able to buy all the upgrades i saw.
They don't want to reintroduce trash loot or whatever we want to call it, why not to give us the opportunity to sell some minerals, given the fact they'll change a bit the whole mining system that is pretty boring.

Let me ask you another question. Does having five pistols that behave nearly the same add anything? So many of the weapons in ME1 had no noticeable differences. The only reason you used one over the other was becasue the game told you to. The decision wasn't meaningful.

Personally, I think not selling stuff is a potential flaw (not huge but still there). In fact, its one of the two things that I feel are missing from ME1.

[EternalWolfe]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

jienoma wrote...

I know we have had a very bad experience with ME1 and even DA:O, i don't find trash loot to be fun at all, i've spent countless time in my RPG and even MMORPG gamer life selecting usefull loot to keep and trash loot to thrown away because i had no more space in my inventory.
There is a more practical way, imho, to handle the problem instead of hacking the inventory from a game, less loot and better interface.

I feel that's what ME2 has develiered. You loot/buy weapon and armor upgrades. Certainly cuts the amount of loot down. I guess it was too much?

Exactly.  We have an inventory system, and its a far better one the ME1s(IMO).  It cuts down on the insane number of copies you got in the first game, except they cut out so much, you barely have anything at all.  If the weapons had been modular like the armor, if you had more armor pieces, and if you could setup squadmate's armor, you'd find less people would be complaining(at least about the lack of inventory).  Also, if the bonuses on the armor made a bigger difference in gameplay, it'd be a bit more customizable as far as playstyle.

Note, I'm not saying its all bad.  Now each armor piece has a definite(if irrelevent) bonus rather then some arbitrary stats that were very obvious about which piece you wanted(and the rest was junk).  The unique look to each piece was nice too, my Vanguard and my Infiltrator look like they're actually wearing different armor.  And having weapons that were actually different in noticable stats(damage, rate-of-fire, clip size/ammo carried, ect) was very nice.  It just needs more parts to go along with it all.