1769 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesMoriarty123]

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

QFT.

[Justin2k]

SirGladiator wrote...

I actually saw a poll a little while ago, asking if Tali should be a romance option for FemShep, and the vote when I saw it (maybe an hour or so ago) was 86-39 in favor. I think whether you look at that poll, or the length of this thread/the last thread, all the evidence is this is a VERY popular topic, that has very broad support. I think all the actual evidence points to the fact that we are not, in fact, a 'small group', but rather those who are opposed to us are the small group.

You have to remember

a) most straight guys think lesbians are cool
and
 its only really the gays, lesbians and supporters that are voting on these polls.

If you summed the whole ME playerbase if they wanted to see M Shepard have a gay romance I imagine it would poll less than 5% of the vote.  I expect more people would rather see Tali given a lightsaber than this.

You are a small group.  It just doesnt seem so when you all get together.  Not getting at you but it is the truth, thats why you are called a minority.

Modifié par Justin2k, 10 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[Nautica773]

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

A lot of people in this thread either promote or would settle with a new character that's gay/bi. So... glad we're on the same page?

[John Locke N7]

wowpwnslol wrote...

John Locke N7 wrote...


ok, you ask for  it. let me break it down for you so yo can understand it. your reason for no having a gay options are this "its icky and i dont like it" you also state your claim as in the gay romance would be in the opening cinematic and not an option at all.

Ok - that's what Bioware said about Dragon Age, however you still had a character dropping making passes at you. Sure, you could stop it, but the damage has been done. I was sickened.

also, you state that "just because the minority wants it, it doesnt mean that bio should dedicate their time and resources implemening it" what world do you live in where the minority vote outways the majority?

The stupidity of this statement is mind boggling. Yes, let's allow minorities to make all important descisions. Hey, actually it's a decent idea - US might have a better president right now.

i would also like to point out that adding a gay romance option is a step in the direction of making the game for EVERYONE. which is time and resources well spent.

Incorrect. Instead of wasting time with gay romances, they could add another mission and not anger many customers who dislike gay characters hitting on them.

you were sickened by a gay pass? lawl. white supremisists are sicked by interacial romances. you saying there sounlt be gay options now is like a white supremisist wanting the romance option for fem sheps with jacob removed... you views are abivous bias. better president lawl.

[Lightice_av]

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

It most certainly is. One full, deep gay option per gender is pretty much what everybody's asking here. Anyone demanding more than that may be a wee bit obsessed. However, it makes sense to make them bi options rather than full gay options. It saves money and time from the dev team, since they don't have to write an entirely new character, model them, and voice act them from the scratch. By simply making an existing LI bisexual they can reuse a fair chuck of the lines that already exist.

[Ryzaki]

Nautica773 wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

A lot of people in this thread either promote or would settle with a new character that's gay/bi. So... glad we're on the same page?

LOL I think so. I don't think there are that many people advocating for changing everyone into a bisexual. (Would be awesome but no). Alas.

[wowpwnslol]

Justin2k wrote...

You have to remember

a) most straight guys think lesbians are cool
and
 its only really the gays, lesbians and supporters that are voting on these polls.

If you summed the whole ME playerbase if they wanted to see M Shepard have a gay romance I imagine it would poll less than 5% of the vote.  I expect more people would rather see Tali given a lightsaber than this.

You are a small group.  It just doesnt seem so when you all get together.

Yep, 100% agree with this. Just because a small very vocal minority is yelling very loudly, it doesn't mean Bioware will/should dedicate valuable resources to it when they can create more content instead that they know for sure will appeal to everyone.

[Fade9wayz]

wowpwnslol wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

OK.  Why is that a negative social message?  It looks pretty positive to me.  Unless, you know, tolerance and equality are bad things that we should shun.

Because it's not a good idea to encourage practice which is deemed morally wrong and generally unacceptable in our society. I am sure if the game allowed you to torture people, it would raise some eye brows. This is basically the same thing. You can find plenty of objectionable content online and in real life if you're curious - why does it have to make it in our games too?

Making up analogies with two things that have strictly nothing to do with one another is what I consider wrong in your statement. Torture and homosexuality are two very, very different things. One is the abuse of someone else in a non consensual way, the other is just a preference in one's choice of partner. This is very bad rethoric really. It is like comparing mass murder and heterosexuality. There is absolutely no connection.

Besides, what is socially unacceptable somewhere can be very well accepted somewhere else.

Oh, and ME1 and 2 actually allow torture and genocide. I would think allowing M/M or F/F relationship isn't that bad in comparison.

[Ninja Mage]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

QFT.

 We already discussed this. No one is talking about the whole ****ing crew. Just a few characters who are obviously bisexual ( Jack, Thane, Kaiden) And let it be an option so that people who don't want it, don't have to play it. But It seems obvious if you don't want that option, just don't click on it. But the bigger issue is some of these ''manly'' gamers don't even want the option to exist to taint the image of Shepard, when that is nonsensical because Shepard isn't the epitome of manliness at all, by his dialogue and character actions. It just saddens me that the ones who are against gay romances recycle the same tired excuses OVER and OVER again

[Jimmy Fury]

Ninja chill on all that. Moriarty has been more than civil lately and insulting him just makes us look bad. In fact I gotta agree with him that so far the biggest troll was the person who said anyone who doesn't want a gay option is a bigot.

Moving on though.

Don't know why I hadn't read this before but according to a wiki article about ME:Redemption, BioWare is planning to tie it into ME2 with DLC.
If it's a large enough DLC, like an expansion, it could easily be used to bring a new romance option into the story.
I honestly expect any Redemption based DLC to be big. Anything based around what's going on with Liara would simply be too big to fit into one mission. (I hope..)

The whole morality argument was actually addressed by Dr. Ray in the same article used to claim there will be no m/m romance. He very clearly stated that BioWare's games do not ignore issues just because some people find them disagreeable. Things that occur in real life occur in the games because those things exist whether people like it or not.

I whole heartedly agree that existing characters shouldn't be change. Options that were cut from the game were cut. It doesn't matter the reason and it doesn't matter if modders can still see them. They were cut.
But I don't agree that the lack of options should prevent any new options. If one argues that Kaidan, Ashley, Thane, and Tali can't be s/s romance options because they're straight, then one must acknowledge that this works both ways and that they weren't romance options before for the same reason.
Arguments that the romance subplot is supposed to carry across the entire trilogy fall a bit short because if that was true then why include so many new options in 2?

[John Locke N7]

wowpwnslol wrote...

TommyServo wrote...

OK.  Why is that a negative social message?  It looks pretty positive to me.  Unless, you know, tolerance and equality are bad things that we should shun.

Because it's not a good idea to encourage practice which is deemed morally wrong and generally unacceptable in our society.

my grandma told be about a time where females that did anything but worked for men was deemed unacceptable by our society. and the told me about how african america equal rights where "taboo"  what you fail to understand is the right of equality. and you "sicking" of a video game character making a gay pass at you is a MANIFESTED reaction  based on poor social indoctrination.

[Ryzaki]

Come on Ninja A effeminate dutch model and a guy who crossdresses as a woman on stage totally make the manliest man when put together. [/sarcasm]

Anyways I'm not against it. And since the F/F is already in there they might as well. There's only a minority is indeed true but that doesn't mean they should be completely ignored.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

QFT.

 We already discussed this. No one is talking about the whole ****ing crew. Just a few characters who are obviously bisexual ( Jack, Thane, Kaiden) And let it be an option so that people who don't want it, don't have to play it. But It seems obvious if you don't want that option, just don't click on it. But the bigger issue is some of these ''manly'' gamers don't even want the option to exist to taint the image of Shepard, when that is nonsensical because Shepard isn't the epitome of manliness at all, by his dialogue and character actions. It just saddens me that the ones who are against gay romances recycle the same tired excuses OVER and OVER again

It's clowns like you that do your cause more harm than good. Changing established characters that clearly are NOT Bisexual OR Gay would damage the game immesurably. Kaiden/Thane/Garrus, all talk about female previous loves. I hate to be so vocal on this point, but just when I think the for/against are reaching a compromise or common ground, muppets like you repost the whole "Kaiden is Bi! WHAA WHAA". He ****ing isnt. Get over it. They aren't gonna change his character, his WHOLE character, not now, not ever.

[Ninja Mage]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Yep, 100% agree with this. Just because a small very vocal minority is yelling very loudly, it doesn't mean Bioware will/should dedicate valuable resources to it when they can create more content instead that they know for sure will appeal to everyone.

 But their content doesn't appeal to EVERYONE. That's why this thread even exists. You can't make everyone happy 100 percent of the time, that's not even what we're arguing. We're arguing that more gay romance options should exist, especially since the rest of the playerbase has more than one romance option, and is being stupidly stubborn about allowing me to have mine.

[JamesMoriarty123]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

You have to remember

a) most straight guys think lesbians are cool
and
 its only really the gays, lesbians and supporters that are voting on these polls.

If you summed the whole ME playerbase if they wanted to see M Shepard have a gay romance I imagine it would poll less than 5% of the vote.  I expect more people would rather see Tali given a lightsaber than this.

You are a small group.  It just doesnt seem so when you all get together.

Yep, 100% agree with this. Just because a small very vocal minority is yelling very loudly, it doesn't mean Bioware will/should dedicate valuable resources to it when they can create more content instead that they know for sure will appeal to everyone.

Yeah, this is pretty much the deal.

[wowpwnslol]

John Locke N7 wrote...

you were sickened by a gay pass? lawl. white supremisists are sicked by interacial romances. you saying there sounlt be gay options now is like a white supremisist wanting the romance option for fem sheps with jacob removed... you views are abivous bias. better president lawl.

Okay, I think I can dimiss you as another forum mouth-breather and safely ignore your posts. I am a white "supremisist" because I dislike the concept of a gay romance in a video game? Kid, you're dumb. Come back when you can stop yourself from using "lawl" every second sentence and actually present a decent argument.

[Madman17]

Agree completly with truestatic, would like to throw in my opinion, anyone ever thought that the reason bioware havnt done it is because they dont have anyone comfortable writing m/m stoof. Im not saying they are homophobic or anything just that if they arnt familiar with these things it would seem abit "stuck on". If they add it it has to be in a tastfull and well made manner or it shouldnt be added at all.

[truestatic]

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Oookay.  I'm sure everyone and their mother has brought this up, but what the heck.  You want your Shepard to be gay.  I hear you.  I get that.  I noticed my Shepard making eyes at Alenko years ago.  But here's the thing.  Maybe your crew ISN'T.  Because while you're free to role play Shepard in to the kind of human specter you want him or her to be, the other characters are Bioware's doing.  Already, Kelly is bisexual, and you could probably argue that Jack should be, or maybe her stories are simply about experimentation in her youth, but perhaps not every character should be bisexual.  Perhaps that'd just be a little strange.  Frankly, considering, I think if they just made Jack bi, and added one male character to the game that was strictly gay, that'd be a pretty rounded out sexuality of the games characters.

But I think expecting every character to swing both ways is... perhaps a little much.

QFT.

 We already discussed this. No one is talking about the whole ****ing crew. Just a few characters who are obviously bisexual ( Jack, Thane, Kaiden) And let it be an option so that people who don't want it, don't have to play it. But It seems obvious if you don't want that option, just don't click on it. But the bigger issue is some of these ''manly'' gamers don't even want the option to exist to taint the image of Shepard, when that is nonsensical because Shepard isn't the epitome of manliness at all, by his dialogue and character actions. It just saddens me that the ones who are against gay romances recycle the same tired excuses OVER and OVER again

Like I said, I haven't read all three volumes of this thread in their entirety so I suspected my 2c had already been contributed by someone else.  However.

Just a few characters who are obviously bisexual ( Jack, Thane, Kaiden)

They were?  OBVIOUSLY?  Obviously.  My reference to Kaidan's sexuality was kind of in a Val Kilmer/Tom Cruise Top Gun will they won't they dealy.  And where does the Thane thing even come from?  /curious

[Ninja Mage]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

It's clowns like you that do your cause more harm than good. Changing established characters that clearly are NOT Bisexual OR Gay would damage the game immesurably. Kaiden/Thane/Garrus, all talk about female previous loves. I hate to be so vocal on this point, but just when I think the for/against are reaching a compromise or common ground, muppets like you repost the whole "Kaiden is Bi! WHAA WHAA". He ****ing isnt. Get over it. They aren't gonna change his character, his WHOLE character, not now, not ever.

I will concede that Garrus is probably straight. But Kaiden was INTENDED as a gay romance in mass effect one, we have evidence of that. SO you can shutup with that argument. And recently, people have found Audio files for Thane and Tali so they were probably options too. Just because you don't want to admit, doesn't make those characters NON bisexual. Sorry, not everyone on the ship is straight, tough luck buddy

[John Locke N7]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

so far the biggest troll was the person who said anyone who doesn't want a gay option is a bigot.

i want to explain why i said why i said, and i why i stick by it. the oly reasons for not having a gay option that the "other side" of this agruement is that 1. its taboo. 2. i dont like gays. 3.i dont want to get in a situation where a chacter of the same sex offers a romantic option with me.
currently this is biggorty, if they was i dont want mako driving beause its not fun. you can have 2 sides of that agurments making valid points. but this agruement isnt "should there be a gay option" its "should the gays be given an option of play".

[Ryzaki]

Okay so can we all agree on that it would be fine to have a completely new squad mate that happened to be a bisexual male?

I mean the peace is quickly falling apart again. *sighs*

Also the inclusion of a gay romance isn't going to result in the mass hysteria some of you are hyping it up to be. Granted they'll always be the group that won't buy the game because of it (like they'll be a group that does) but the mass of gamers that would be uncomfortable with it would just skip that option. Its not like the average gamer is going to go: OMG GAYZ! and return the game ESPECIALLY if they'd been enjoying the rest of it.

People are overestimiating how much a gay romance would affect the average gamer.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 février 2010 - 07:55 .

[Justin2k]

I do feel that most of the gay community here are missing the main anti point.. which is that rather than spend time and money on art, animation, writing and voice acting for something that most people will avoid and never see, they could spend the same time and money on art, animation, writing and voice acting for something that everyone will see and enjoy, including your community.

As previously said, the large majority of players are straight.  If the huge majority of players were gay there would be 6 gay romances and no straight ones.  I agree it would be nice for you to have something you can relate to but then it would be nice for people that cannot walk to have amputees in the game, or people who are asian to have an asian character in the game.

This is the thing about minorities.  They are minor.  Not come across in every walk of life.  It is realistic that of 11 people on a ship, all of them are straight.  It is unrealistic that a high number of them would be gay.  Gay people has its place in media but it is not a requirement of games to market themselves to the gay community and the vast majority of people would rather all of ME3's development went on something that benefitted everyone and not a gay romance that the vast majority would be trying desperately to avoid - ie zevrahn hitting on people.

Its not homophobic to be against gay romance.  There are just much better ways to use resources than to waste it on a minority.  Something such as a melee class fighter, an extra N7 mission and a good conversation with an old ME2 teammate could be done using the same resources and would add much more value to the game for the majority of its purchasers.

[John Locke N7]

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay so can we all agree on that it would be fine to have a completely new squad mate that happened to be a bisexual male?

I mean the peace is quickly falling apart again. *sighs*

i would like a really funny flambouint homosexual male character. that would be AWESOME

[JamesMoriarty123]

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

It's clowns like you that do your cause more harm than good. Changing established characters that clearly are NOT Bisexual OR Gay would damage the game immesurably. Kaiden/Thane/Garrus, all talk about female previous loves. I hate to be so vocal on this point, but just when I think the for/against are reaching a compromise or common ground, muppets like you repost the whole "Kaiden is Bi! WHAA WHAA". He ****ing isnt. Get over it. They aren't gonna change his character, his WHOLE character, not now, not ever.

I will concede that Garrus is probably straight. But Kaiden was INTENDED as a gay romance in mass effect one, we have evidence of that. SO you can shutup with that argument. And recently, people have found Audio files for Thane and Tali so they were probably options too. Just because you don't want to admit, doesn't make those characters NON bisexual. Sorry, not everyone on the ship is straight, tough luck buddy

It doesnt matter what was INTENDED you clown, what matters is what was ACTUALLY put in the game. And its ACTUALLY in the game that he likes girls, go talk to him ffs. The fact that all this stuff was intended or talked about doesn't mean a damn thing, at design level nothings set, once it's in the game, it becomes a non-variable, it becomes a static, known factor.
Is this so hard for you to get into your mind? Stop pining over something that only modders can see, the actual game is what counts.
It's you who doesn't want to admit they are straight when all of the ACTUAL evidence points to that being so. The fatcs speak for themselves. Finding a bit of cut content doesn't change a thing.

[truestatic]

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay so can we all agree on that it would be fine to have a completely new squad mate that happened to be a bisexual male?

I mean the peace is quickly falling apart again. *sighs*

Sure.  Sounds great.  And in the mean time there's always hitting the word processor for some good ol' fan fics amirite.  Ho boy, 6th grade, how I miss thee.