1769 réponses à ce sujet

[MadJeSeuss]

Yes, I'm all for same sex romance options in ME. I'm a straight guy but that doesn't mean my shep has to be. I like to play as any race and gender and to be able to choose a sexual orientation for that character (and yes I would like to pursue a m/m relationship in the game, not just f/f).

As a preemptive answer to those who might be confused as to why I like to see a m/m romance (I'm saying this because I noticed in the threads there are some who are confused about women wanting this), I have this to say  1) It allows me to diversify my characers and it will help prevent  the same maleshep / different face mindframe I tend to fall into.  And 2) I think any romance (provided it's depicted properly, not feeling tacked on or stereotypical) is a beautiul thing regardless of the sexual orientation.

[Pumpeho]

Just do it so my female Shepard finally can be happy together with Tali. Hell, both male and female Shepard got the same introduction to the romance options.



Besides, its a role playing game. We are meant to be someone else or be ourselves in a different context.

[Space Shot]

Pumpeho wrote...

Besides, its a role playing game. We are meant to be someone else or be ourselves in a different context.

That's just it.  With Mass Effect you are not you.  You are playing the role of Commander Shepard, an individual with a personality all his/her own.  You may be able to decide the polarity of that personality, however, but you are not allowed to define that personality outright.  So, just as with the Master Chief, Sam Fischer, or Revan, you will not be able to express yourself exactly as you may want to because full and unfettered personal expression is not the intended purpose of the character you are playing as.  For that, you need to go to Dragon Age or Fable, where the role of the playable character is not to simply act as a vehicle for a story but to act as a vehicle for your own personality.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Space Shot wrote...

Pumpeho wrote...

Besides, its a role playing game. We are meant to be someone else or be ourselves in a different context.

That's just it.  With Mass Effect you are not you.  You are playing the role of Commander Shepard, an individual with a personality all his/her own.  You may be able to decide the polarity of that personality, however, but you are not allowed to define that personality outright.  So, just as with the Master Chief, Sam Fischer, or Revan, you will not be able to express yourself exactly as you may want to because full and unfettered personal expression is not the intended purpose of the character you are playing as.  For that, you need to go to Dragon Age or Fable, where the role of the playable character is not to simply act as a vehicle for a story but to act as a vehicle for your own personality.

Except that with FemShep, m/f and f/f relationships are both possible, though f/f im ME2 is somewhat less robust; with MaleShep, only m/f was and is. It's an imbalance that a fair number of people would like to see corrected.

[Jimmy Fury]

Space Shot wrote...

Pumpeho wrote...

Besides, its a role playing game. We are meant to be someone else or be ourselves in a different context.

That's just it.  With Mass Effect you are not you.  You are playing the role of Commander Shepard, an individual with a personality all his/her own.  You may be able to decide the polarity of that personality, however, but you are not allowed to define that personality outright.  So, just as with the Master Chief, Sam Fischer, or Revan, you will not be able to express yourself exactly as you may want to because full and unfettered personal expression is not the intended purpose of the character you are playing as.  For that, you need to go to Dragon Age or Fable, where the role of the playable character is not to simply act as a vehicle for a story but to act as a vehicle for your own personality.

I'm really curious as to how many times this must be gone over.
There is no difference between Shepard and the Warden in terms of what you can and can not do except for having a male/male romance. That's it.
Shepard will always be Alliance. Shepard will always be on the Normandy. Shepard will always meet the exact same crew members.
Warden will Always join the Wardens. Warden will Always fight the darkspawn. Warden will always meet the exact same companions.
The only difference is that you play Warden's intro and you select Shepard's from a list.
In that respect there are actually more ways to customize Shepard than the warden. There are 12 possible Wardens through race/origin/combat class. There are 54 possible Shepards. Double both those numbers to include both sexes.
Further, and indeed more importantly, Casey Hudson himself said Shepard is whatever you want him to be as the player. As Arik posted on the very first page of this thread:

"Commander Shepard can be designed and created however you want, thanks to a very detailed character customization system. Between the development of your character's abilities and the customization of your equipment, vehicles and even other members of your squad, you will have a ton of opportunity to customize your game experience. Mass Effect starts with a deep character customization system, allowing you to choose Commander Shepard as you've seen him before or to create your own Commander Shepard. Your character can be male or female, and you will have an extreme level of detail in creating your character's appearance. You can choose a character class to get you started in defining your starting set of abilities, and you can even choose your back-story so that you can define what your life has been like leading up to the start of the game."

As the lead designer of the game his word is Gospel.

And out of sheer curiosity.. how are paragon/renegade/neutral options, optional side quests, cutsomizable armor, selectable classes, selectable abilities, and 6 (9 if you count the ones in ME1) romance options not  a vehicle for the players personality?

edit: ....formatting goblins ate my formatting.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 11 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[Lightice_av]

If there were no non-mainstream romances in Mass Effect whatsoever, I don't think that anybody would miss them, or even notice that they aren't there. But when you are given the opportunity both to play homosexual as a woman, and xenophile (rather extreme one as a woman, too) as either gender, the lack of M/M option becomes extremely conspicuous. If you take a certain way to handle the character customization, then you'd better be ready to go all the way. There was no necessity for Liara to have been a female romance option but she was. Ditto for Kelly Chambers and Garrus. Thane was made specifically as xenophilic fanservice for women. There is a trend of leaving a single obvious option out with no clear explanation, and oddly enough confirming that FemShep can be lesbian/bisexual towards humans, but making this relationship shallower than all the rest.

[DaeJi]

Space Shot wrote...

That's just it.  With Mass Effect you are not you.  You are playing the role of Commander Shepard, an individual with a personality all his/her own.  You may be able to decide the polarity of that personality, however, but you are not allowed to define that personality outright.  So, just as with the Master Chief, Sam Fischer, or Revan, you will not be able to express yourself exactly as you may want to because full and unfettered personal expression is not the intended purpose of the character you are playing as.  For that, you need to go to Dragon Age or Fable, where the role of the playable character is not to simply act as a vehicle for a story but to act as a vehicle for your own personality.

Playing as Shepard is no different than playing as the Warden. You choose from a list of responces that BioWare hands you. It's presented differently in each game, but it's the exact same system. I can only customize my Dragon Age: Origins character so much, and I can only customize Shepard so much. The only difference is that BioWare choose to limit the player's choices with Shepard when if comes to romance, especial the male Shepard. And, considering that it is possible to have a lesbian Shepard in both games (even if that content is weak in Mass Effect 2), the lack or M/M is kind of bewildering. BioWare setting a precedent for themselves on other games makes the lack of full same sex romances in Mass Effect 2 very noticeable as well.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Here's the thing with same sex in a game.It's a highly controversial issue.



Especially when you decide to include it any game.Besides dealing with push back from news and forum users , you would have to deal with the impact of the decision.Same sex group might say it's worth it we deserve it in a game and you probably do.



But from a corporate profits perspective there's more customers/players that belong to the (male/female group : my self included) than the male/male / (female/female).So theirs little incentive to include same sex in a game.



Secondly by them putting same sex some in my group male/female might boycott the game because theirs same sex and don't want that in the game their playing.(Racist) maybe but some just don't want to deal it , even if it can be chosen.And if corporate thanks their going to lose the biggest groups of customers it's a no go.



Third , the biggest one of the all .Female/Female relationship would probably be ok to the male/female group only because it's been around since the Egyptian days and more people are exposed to it.Some in the female/male relationships have experimented with this in anywhere in junior high to college but in the end chose the female/male.



Male/Male is a whole different story most in the male/female group , once they see this content anywhere they decide to either not to see it or buy it.Which again corporate would rather cater to the bigger group. Most if not all guys would never experiment with a male/male and if someone did they would be pretty much be cast into the male/male or stick with the male/male relationship.



To wrap it up ,unless same sex group gets bigger than male/female or female/male group your not going to get the content.

[Lightice_av]

Again with the controversy argument? There was zero controversy surrounding Dragon Age: Origins, another Bioware game, despite of containing M/M content. The controversy is not an issue, and Bioware would probably benefit if it was - scandals always boost sales.

[MadJeSeuss]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Secondly by them putting same sex some in my group male/female might boycott the game because theirs same sex and don't want that in the game their playing.(Racist) maybe but some just don't want to deal it , even if it can be chosen.And if corporate thanks their going to lose the biggest groups of customers it's a no go.

I think you might be over estimating the reaction to gay content in games. BioWare has already set a precedent in m/m romances in previous titles (DA:O, Jade Empire) and I don't recall anyone boycotting those games. Same could be said about the Fable series and the Sims.

To wrap it up ,unless same sex group gets bigger than male/female or female/male group your not going to get the content.

That statement sounds like the" what the majority wants is what we're going to get" arguement that keeps popping up in these threads. If that statement is true, then are you are saying that the majority of the ME gamers wanted the Garrus LI? I find that hard to believe.

[Treavor647]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Here's the thing with same sex in a game.It's a highly controversial issue.

Especially when you decide to include it any game.Besides dealing with push back from news and forum users , you would have to deal with the impact of the decision.Same sex group might say it's worth it we deserve it in a game and you probably do.

But from a corporate profits perspective there's more customers/players that belong to the (male/female group : my self included) than the male/male / (female/female).So theirs little incentive to include same sex in a game.

Secondly by them putting same sex some in my group male/female might boycott the game because theirs same sex and don't want that in the game their playing.(Racist) maybe but some just don't want to deal it , even if it can be chosen.And if corporate thanks their going to lose the biggest groups of customers it's a no go.

Third , the biggest one of the all .Female/Female relationship would probably be ok to the male/female group only because it's been around since the Egyptian days and more people are exposed to it.Some in the female/male relationships have experimented with this in anywhere in junior high to college but in the end chose the female/male.

Male/Male is a whole different story most in the male/female group , once they see this content anywhere they decide to either not to see it or buy it.Which again corporate would rather cater to the bigger group. Most if not all guys would never experiment with a male/male and if someone did they would be pretty much be cast into the male/male or stick with the male/male relationship.

To wrap it up ,unless same sex group gets bigger than male/female or female/male group your not going to get the content.

If there was going to be any controvery regarding the game's romance, it would have been started and out there already since again, there is already a homosexual romance option available (female/female).

The game will not be boycotted.   To get a same sex relationship, you have to blantanly flirt with the squad member to even see it.  as long as you dont flirt with them, you would never know its in the game. Those who would boycott the game should do it now since the fem/fem relationship is already in there.

As to your 3rd point, your biggest one, i hate to say is your weakest one.  So you are saying that since a couple might have experimented with a female that it was ok and that gives the fem/fem relationship a green light to be put in a game? the same argument can be said if said couple experimented a male.  Male/male relationships have been around just as long.

The male/male relationship, might not be accepted where you are, but it is where i am (canada).  If you see a nice suit made by Tom ford or versace, who are homosexual, does that mean you would never wear it?  If you hear a great song by elton john but since he is gay does that mean that you will never listen to it again?  That is what i got from your logic, the fact that if people know that a male/male relationship is in the game even though to get the said relationship, you have to do a series of things to even see it, that is totally optoinal, that people will not buy it.  Dragon age is HUGELY successful.  And so will Mass effect be  even if they do add a male male romance.

Modifié par Treavor647, 12 février 2010 - 01:02 .

[Jimmy Fury]

That whole thing also hinged on that certifiably wrong concept that only gay men want the content. Straight people want it too. Straight men even want it. look at this thread.



Plus. gah. I don't even know what to say about the rest of that post. So lesbians are ok because ancient egypt had lesbians? I don't... I mean... Sparta much? And experimenting in college is not restricted to girl-on-girl. Truuuuust me.

[biddypocket]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Here's the thing with same sex in a game.It's a highly controversial issue.

Especially
when you decide to include it any game.Besides dealing with push back
from news and forum users , you would have to deal with the impact of
the decision.Same sex group might say it's worth it we deserve it in a
game and you probably do.

But from a corporate profits
perspective there's more customers/players that belong to the
(male/female group : my self included) than the male/male /
(female/female).So theirs little incentive to include same sex in a
game.

Secondly by them putting same sex some in my group
male/female might boycott the game because theirs same sex and don't
want that in the game their playing.(Racist) maybe but some just don't
want to deal it , even if it can be chosen.And if corporate thanks
their going to lose the biggest groups of customers it's a no go.

Third
, the biggest one of the all .Female/Female relationship would probably
be ok to the male/female group only because it's been around since the
Egyptian days and more people are exposed to it.Some in the female/male
relationships have experimented with this in anywhere in junior high to
college but in the end chose the female/male.

Male/Male is a
whole different story most in the male/female group , once they see
this content anywhere they decide to either not to see it or buy
it.Which again corporate would rather cater to the bigger group. Most
if not all guys would never experiment with a male/male and if someone
did they would be pretty much be cast into the male/male or stick with
the male/male relationship.

To wrap it up ,unless same sex group gets bigger than male/female or female/male group your not going to get the content.

Errrr....just to point something out, lesbian relationships were certainly not the only same-sex relationships to exist in ancient times. In ancient Greece it was common practice for men, especially teachers, to engage in sexual realtionship with young men, usually students. This was because men were typically the only ones allowed to attend schools, and the teachers would explore relationships with them because they envisioned intelligence inseparable from beauty and divinity....hence where the term "platonic" comes from. It's original meaning was not that of a "non-sexual" relationship, but rather one between a teacher (such as Plato - hence "plato-"nic) and his pupil.

Just to clear that up.

[Lightice_av]

Historically speaking M/M was a lot more common than F/F. Men had most of the power and influence; women were second class citizens at best, and few men would have been happy to lose their wives to other women. Meanwhile the ancient Greeks and Romans, along with Egyptian upper classes, the Japanese Samurai and many, many others accepted or even idealized romantic relationships between men. Similar relationships between women undoubtedly existed, but they were kept very quiet and secret, and few literary sources exist about them.

[JamesMoriarty123]

You have to remember, the lead designer isn't the lead writer. 2 very different functions. All the lead designer does is come up with the gameplay. The writer actually decides on the content.

[biddypocket]

DaeJi wrote...

Space Shot wrote...

That's just it.  With Mass Effect you are not you.  You are playing the role of Commander Shepard, an individual with a personality all his/her own.  You may be able to decide the polarity of that personality, however, but you are not allowed to define that personality outright.  So, just as with the Master Chief, Sam Fischer, or Revan, you will not be able to express yourself exactly as you may want to because full and unfettered personal expression is not the intended purpose of the character you are playing as.  For that, you need to go to Dragon Age or Fable, where the role of the playable character is not to simply act as a vehicle for a story but to act as a vehicle for your own personality.

Playing as Shepard is no different than playing as the Warden. You choose from a list of responces that BioWare hands you. It's presented differently in each game, but it's the exact same system. I can only customize my Dragon Age: Origins character so much, and I can only customize Shepard so much. The only difference is that BioWare choose to limit the player's choices with Shepard when if comes to romance, especial the male Shepard. And, considering that it is possible to have a lesbian Shepard in both games (even if that content is weak in Mass Effect 2), the lack or M/M is kind of bewildering. BioWare setting a precedent for themselves on other games makes the lack of full same sex romances in Mass Effect 2 very noticeable as well.

*coughcough*Tell that to Ray Muzyka*coughcough*

:innocent:

[DaeJi]

I don't see the "controversy" argument holding any water. BioWare's last title, Dragon Age: Origins, had a male NPC openly hit on you even if you were playing a male character. That game did not hurt for it. Not only that, if BioWare was so worried about that content turning people off, then they should have it as a same day DLC (or in Mass Effect 2's case, a DLC down the line... hopefully). And look at the controversy and backlash that has happened because they did not put same sex romance (aside from the lacking F/F with Kelly) in the game.

[DaeJi]

biddypocket wrote...

*coughcough*Tell that to Ray Muzyka*coughcough*

:innocent:

Yeah, his reply makes no sense what so ever. If it did, you would not be allowed to choose Shepard's gender.

[DaySeeker]

Why have we not heard anything from Bioware? We have had many of these threads and get no hint of explanation from anyone part of the game. Why is that?

[Ryzaki]

DaySeeker wrote...

Why have we not heard anything from Bioware? We have had many of these threads and get no hint of explanation from anyone part of the game. Why is that?

They do it for the evil lulz.

Only answer we got was that half baked answer interview. (And was that even an answer? He didn't really say anything.) . "Third person narrative." my foot. <_<

[crimsonrhodelia]

octoberfire wrote...

Its too late to incorperate a male same sexx romance in general.   Were going onto Mass Effect 3, if the previous two games didn't establish male Shepherd as gay, introducing it in the third one would be nonsensical.    

It is a obviously a design decision (for whatever reason, likely mass appeal, or as Stanley Woo likes to put it, a "purely artistic decision") that they failed to incorperate it in the last two games.    In both, homosexual romance dialogues was recorded, and in both, the dialogue did not make it into the final product.    That factor, on top of the fact that were going onto Mass Effect 3, make the inclusion of homosexual romances a near impossibility.    

That being said, I fully endorse same sex romances inclusion, though I only particularily care about a lesbian one

I agree with most of this post, although I feel the need to say that the same point could be argued for a gay Shep: if the previous two games didn't establish male Shep as straight, introducing further straight options in the third one would be equally nonsensical.

I am a straight female, but I think it's really unfortunate that BW didn't include gay/lesbian relationships, especially since there were clearly some attempts to implement both at some point. I feel like it's so unfair to restrict players' options in this way. Of course I understand the possible reasoning behind this, as perhaps it would have been a big enough of a deal to people who take issue with homosexual relationships in real life...but it's such a shame. I wish people were more open-minded/were less bothered by the way others might want to interpret their versions of Shepard, male or female. Just because my femshep loves loves loves Kaidan and so the alien LIs aren't her type, doesn't mean I feel that Kaidan should be the only available femshep LI out there. Some people love Renegade!Shep; I haven't gone down that path yet; doesn't mean that Renegade!Shep is any less of a Shepard than my Paragon is.

/cool story, sis

EDIT: Just wanted to agree with everyone who pointed out that since both JE and DAO had gay romance options, it's even more of a shame that ME doesn't.

Modifié par crimsonrhodelia, 12 février 2010 - 02:21 .

[crimsonrhodelia]

Ahh, reviewing this thread again, I feel like I didn't really add much to the discussion. My apologies! Well, please consider my last post as just adding my support for m/m and f/f romances in ME3.

[YakoHako]

I could use some gay romance irl, but I wouldn't mind it in the game either.

[LadyLuminary]

My main FemShepard's a lesbian whose love interest is Liara. That's as close as I got to a same-sex romance.



I actually would've liked it if there were male romance options for a male Shepard. Jacob/MShepard, Garrus/MShepard, Thane/MShepard...my God, my inner slash fangirl had a seizure from the hotness.

[DaeJi]

You know, it's never too late for them to add M/M and better F/F into the game. DLCs make that possible. As long a shot as it is, I will still support that.