1769 réponses à ce sujet

[PyroFreak301]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

PyroFreak301 wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

The fact is, no matter how "visible" this thread is, all you really have is 20 people reposting. Constantly. Bioware aren't gonna do a thing for such a small support group.
The Tali/Garrus fanservice was probably only done as Tali and Garrus are central parts to the game anyway. No matter how much you guys protest or retread the same ground over and over, it isn't gonna happen.

To be fair, the protests against it are voiced by even fewer people. I'm guessing most people are so indifferent they wouldn't mind either way.

Theres no harm in letting people discuss it, to keep telling them it's pointless to try only encourages the discussion further.

By all means, I'm not against discussion. But the same issues/solutions come up again and again. It's like people just aren't reading the previous threads at all.
You have to remember as well, only a small portion of gamers would actually post here, mostly people who own the PC version as well I would imagine.
With ME being so close to it's end, I just can't see it happening. I mean Ray Muzyka said as much in the IGN article. Sure, people are in denial due to the fact that he gave a veiled answer, but calling a turd a turd and calling it a repugnant coil of faeces are still the same thing. If you catch my drift. o.O
When you mention DA in one breath and then say that you want to take ME in a different direction in the next, after being asked a clear question, the answer becomes pretty definitive.

The answer was veiled to give them wiggle room, they're experts at saying nothing yet making it sound like something, especiallity on controversial subjects like these. They didn't give a definitive yes or no either way you wanna spin it. Both DA and ME are pretty similar in respects to story roles, both are thrust into greatness and the rest of it is up to a player, including gender and morality and every choice inbetween.

Why sexual preferences falls under a 'a set world view of a pre-defined character' while morality is open to player interpretation doesn't make too much sense to me, nor other people by the sounds of it. Add to the fact sound files were found in-game for m/m and f/f, it doesn't seem like the writers initially planned Shepard to be mysteriously pre-determined in that aspect. We can also mention that his answer falls apart when presented with a female Shepard and her experiences with lesbian encounters (Liara and Kelly).

[Seneva]

You meet more bi/gay/lesbians in any BIO game then you meet in RL.

[PyroFreak301]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

. Sure, people are in denial due to the fact that he gave a veiled answer, but calling a turd a turd and calling it a repugnant coil of faeces are still the same thing. If you catch my drift. o.O

Yeah, I catch your drift, that you're full of **** and in denial that people want this option in the game,and aren't going to take some vaguely exclusionary interview as an answer

Angry ****** is angry.  Boy you mad.

The interview made it painfully clear.  The fact that you deny this leads me to believe your ancestors executed people that proposed a spherical planet over a flat one.

Seriously you are dense.  Most people don't want ****** love in their game.  Some people are ambivalent, and some want it.  In reality, millions of copies were sold.  Most of the customers are hetero, and probably want the game to stay that way.

You people are disgusting, you constantly moan about such a small portion of the game instead of focusing on bigger matters.  Go get a real life boyfriend.  Jesus.

You sure know how to argue.

The fact that you deny this leads me to believe your ancestors executed people that proposed a spherical planet over a flat one.

The irony is that it was the closed minded people so resistant to changes in their beleif that started executing people because they disagreed with the 'norm'. They're more likely to be your ancestors.

[Jimmy Fury]

Beregar wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

Why don't you guys pay Bioware to add this stuff in. I'm sure they would be happy to oblige then

Has been suggested multiple times in this thread alone but.. hum. I would certainly buy it but even I can foresee the reactions to it and even rationalize some of them.

Some people would complain they spent resources on building "gay content" instead of expanding the game with something they find more preferable.

Some people would feel Bioware was pushing "adult content" into a mature game by introducing gay romance (not debating stupidity of age gating for different sexualities here, just pointing out one argument).

Some people would oppose it based on personal values (religious or otherwise) though these same people would oppose gay romances even as part of normal game, so nothing new here.

Some people would complain that Bioware is treating homosexuals as second rate citizens by charging extra for homosexual content (which makes sense from a business perspective since we are indeed a minority).

I wouldn't mind it really and I'm certainly among the first to grab the new content if it was released assuming it is of same high quality as the rest of the game. I'm just not getting my hopes up for something that is unlikely to happen. <_<

Many good points.
All solved by including a new character in an expansion
I still don't think gay content would hurt sales based simply on the sales of ME and DA...

Ooooor.... this

TommyServo wrote...
A number of pages ago (hell, it may have
even been another thread), someone suggested Joker as a good candidate
for it, considering he's already there (no jarring introduction of a
new character) and has no established sexual or romantic history. You
could introduce it in some sort of content pack - a good writer could
make it work well. I think that could work.

Yep. Good idea! (i'm the one who keeps bringing it up )

[Beregar]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

The fact is, no matter how "visible" this thread is, all you really have is 20 people reposting. Constantly. Bioware aren't gonna do a thing for such a small support group. The Tali/Garrus fanservice was probably only done as Tali and Garrus are central parts to the game anyway. No matter how much you guys protest or retread the same ground over and over, it isn't gonna happen.

Ahem, I actually did something crazy and counted the people who outright said they support same sex romances in ME games. I even skipped the people who didn't outright say it - even if they posted images - or went with lines that only supported lesbian sex, and the number so far is 57. This is of course not counting the people from previous threads who aren't posting to this one.

That is besides the point anyways as most of the people supporting, or opposing, gay romances won't be around the forums to argue about it. Plus there's a great deal of people who are indifferent about the whole subject. The end point is that this is pretty normal for any active thread.

[Yeled]

ReDSH1FT wrote...


Angry ****** is angry.  Boy you mad.

The interview made it painfully clear.  The fact that you deny this leads me to believe your ancestors executed people that proposed a spherical planet over a flat one.

Seriously you are dense.  Most people don't want ****** love in their game.  Some people are ambivalent, and some want it.  In reality, millions of copies were sold.  Most of the customers are hetero, and probably want the game to stay that way.

You people are disgusting, you constantly moan about such a small portion of the game instead of focusing on bigger matters.  Go get a real life boyfriend.  Jesus.

See, for eveyone who says we're beating a dead horse, know that its responses like this that keep me coming back to this thread.  That people who think like this exist in the world (and are so common) make me feel duty-bound to continue to support this issue. 

Does the exclusion of this content personally effect me?  Not really.  I'm straight and frankly my main shep is a femshep anyway. 

Do I think that Bioware is required to include m/m content in ME?  No, they are free to release the game they want to release.

But I do think the inclusion of this type of content is good.  I actually think it makes the world a little better.  Much like an african american female officer on the Starship Enterprise was incredibly positive for the african american community in the 1960s, a mainstream company including gay content in their lead franchise has a positive effect on the gay community and gay rights issues.  Is it huge?  Maybe not.  Its not going to single handedly change the world.  But its one more small, positive thing in a sea of hate and close mindededness.

I've been quite pleased to support Bioware over the years, one because they've been a terrific game company that made fantastic games.  But I have also been proud to support them because I feel they have been socially forward thinking and included content in their games most companies would not.  That's why I was a bit disappointed to hear that m/m romance was not included (and to a lesser degree meaningful f/f content was also left out in ME2).

In the end, though, even divorced from the issue of social justice, the inclusion of this content would make a large segment of gamers happy without hurting anyone.

</liberal rant>

[Ninja Mage]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

. Sure, people are in denial due to the fact that he gave a veiled answer, but calling a turd a turd and calling it a repugnant coil of faeces are still the same thing. If you catch my drift. o.O

Yeah, I catch your drift, that you're full of **** and in denial that people want this option in the game,and aren't going to take some vaguely exclusionary interview as an answer

Angry ****** is angry.  Boy you mad.

The interview made it painfully clear.  The fact that you deny this leads me to believe your ancestors executed people that proposed a spherical planet over a flat one.

Seriously you are dense.  Most people don't want ****** love in their game.  Some people are ambivalent, and some want it.  In reality, millions of copies were sold.  Most of the customers are hetero, and probably want the game to stay that way.

You people are disgusting, you constantly moan about such a small portion of the game instead of focusing on bigger matters.  Go get a real life boyfriend.  Jesus.

I'm mad? Did you read your own post?? And I have a boyfriend ****..wow you need some meds or something

[Sabul]

I have been following these topics for a long while now. Only recently have I decided to bother posting. As a homosexual male I was bothered by a lack of m/m romance options in the final release of both games. We all know the work was done. Dialog was recorded and even some scenes were animated as evident from countless YouTube videos. Hell Bioware was hinting at a m/m romance option for months until shortly before the release.

There is a slight ray of hope I am clinging to for ME3 though. Mordin's comments should you not be romancing any of your squad mates in ME2. Perhaps they could be used to unlock a possible m/m option in Mass Effect 3? I think that would be a good way to not offend all the heterosexual players who constantly moan about how dreadful it would be to have a male character hit on them. Well this way it would not happen less unlocked in the previous game. I still have hopes for a optional downloadable unlock for the Thane romance option. It would not be very hard to do and I very much doubt they would need to commit much in the way of resources to do so.

Last night a friend of mine told me it was confirmed that Thane was indeed intended to be the bisexual male romance option. From what he told me EA said no go on a homosexual character near release. However Jack was permissible. Bioware removed Jack's option as a lesbian as some sort of protest. When I asked about links he told me he no longer had them. However I am hoping he will be able to locate the source as I would very much like to read this for myself. At the moment it is but hearsay. Still something very interesting to hear.
 
Edit: Also for the record. My Shepard has been gay in both games by not romancing anyone. Oh look it is cannon for me.

Modifié par Sabul, 12 février 2010 - 08:51 .

[Ryzaki]

Ninja Mage wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

. Sure, people are in denial due to the fact that he gave a veiled answer, but calling a turd a turd and calling it a repugnant coil of faeces are still the same thing. If you catch my drift. o.O

Yeah, I catch your drift, that you're full of **** and in denial that people want this option in the game,and aren't going to take some vaguely exclusionary interview as an answer

Angry ****** is angry.  Boy you mad.

The interview made it painfully clear.  The fact that you deny this leads me to believe your ancestors executed people that proposed a spherical planet over a flat one.

Seriously you are dense.  Most people don't want ****** love in their game.  Some people are ambivalent, and some want it.  In reality, millions of copies were sold.  Most of the customers are hetero, and probably want the game to stay that way.

You people are disgusting, you constantly moan about such a small portion of the game instead of focusing on bigger matters.  Go get a real life boyfriend.  Jesus.

I'm mad? Did you read your own post?? And I have a boyfriend ****..wow you need some meds or something

Ninja. You really really need to chill out.

You're letting the troll be successful.

Seriously dude.

CHILL.

[Ninja Mage]

Nevermind..I'll let it go

Modifié par Ninja Mage, 12 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Ignore him Yeled. He had the chance to engage in a civil debate and make his points waaaaay back on page 4 when I offered to listen to his arguments.

He's obviously just here to troll.

[FKA_Servo]

Edited in the same spirit of restraint that drove Ninja to edit his.

Seriously, this guy is like a homophobic caricature - it's easy to ignore him.  Besides, every bit of drivel he posts keeps this thread on top.

Modifié par TommyServo, 12 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[Yeled]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Ignore him Yeled. He had the chance to engage in a civil debate and make his points waaaaay back on page 4 when I offered to listen to his arguments.
He's obviously just here to troll.

Actually I am ignoring him. I didn't address a single thing he said.   I was responding to the dead horse comments others keep bringing up by holding up his post as an example.

[biddypocket]

Seneva wrote...

You meet more bi/gay/lesbians in any BIO game then you meet in RL.

...ummm....I'm sorry, but honey, what freaking world do you live in?

o_O.

*points to rock* get out from under it, please.

[Jimmy Fury]

Sabul wrote...
Last night a friend of mine told me it was confirmed that Thane was indeed intended to be the bisexual male romance option. From what he told me EA said no go on a homosexual character near release. However Jack was permissible. Bioware removed Jack's option as a lesbian as some sort of protest. When I asked about links he told me he no longer had them. However I am hoping he will be able to locate the source as I would very much like to read this for myself. At the moment it is but hearsay. Still something very interesting to hear.

Please share if you get those links!

I must admit having a hard time with that simply because EA has a great policy towards GLBT employees.
Here's an article about EA, Microsoft, *and* Gamestop!

[Sabul]

I will do so. I do not hold much faith past it just being some fun on SA however if true it would be quite a revelation.

[Beregar]

<snip>Edit: Also for the record. My Shepard has been gay in both games by not romancing anyone. Oh look it is cannon for me. </snip>

Same for me! Gay by omission, hehe.

If I had to pick romance partners from ME/ME2 it would be as follows in order of preference: Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus, Grunt (yes Grunt!) or Wrex... heck I'd even pick Legion before Mordin or Thane and it's a machine! I don't like Zaeed at all with his killer attitude, and Thane is too much of an emo girl and then there's the whole religious thing going. I think he is one of the characters I like least in all Bioware games (along with the annoying elf in DA). Definitely not my type of guys.

Kaidan, Jacob, Garrus, Alistair, Carth... those are all well written characters I like a lot. Some of the women have a lot character too but I know where my interests lie.

[Yeled]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I must admit having a hard time with that simply because EA has a great policy towards GLBT employees.
Here's an article about EA, Microsoft, *and* Gamestop!

There is a difference between what a progressive company in a progressive location might offer its employees internally and what it might release to the masses in its products.  Not saying Sabul's hearsay comments are true, but that could be an explanation if they are.

[Sabul]

Beregar: Haha. That is awesome. I do not know I actually thought Thane was alright. As for his religion. It was not any religion like those we practice. It was the ancestral religion of the Drell. Not knowing their stance on homosexuality if it is even an issue to begin with his being religious did not bother me in the least. I do agree being able to romance Kaidan would have been nice. However it did not make it to release. Que Sera, Sera I suppose. Jacob seemed like a likely option as well for a good while. Garrus I do like and agree would be a viable option. I do not much have an opinion on Grunt or Wrex. I adored Alistair and Carth so much. I really need to replay KOTOR again. It is one of my favourite games after all.

cvfish: It was more a solution to all the thirteen year old boys screaming about how gross it would be to be hit on by a man. Rather than something needed for fully grown rational players.

Yeled: I was considering saying much the same. However felt I had said enough things negative. Thank you for saying what I could not.

Modifié par Sabul, 12 février 2010 - 09:34 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

All of this "Oh it would send a good message!" talk is just a load of rubbish I'm afraid. Bioware exist to make awesome games, not make political statements.
It pisses me right off when you see something in a game/movie/ad that's been included just so they could say everythings equal. Happens in movies all the time, there's always a black guy, or a spanish guy, or an asian guy knocking around, I mean hey, it couldn't possibly be that there just weren't any minorities around right?
In my immediate cirlce of friends I know 1 person who is a Cypriet (not sure of the spelling there) and precisely 0 people who are gay men. Except 2 lesibans that I know.
One of the guys here counted up, 57 people support the option, well I'm sorry but if every developer just dropped their hats everytime a vocal minority of under 10,000 people started whining, then we just wouldn't get many games, good ones at least.

As previously stated, there's been like 200K signed petitions for the inclusion of something in a game, something not even controversial, something actually mainstream, and they've been denied flat out.
Chances of Bioware caving to this request/demand = 0% (0.5 if you're feeling lucky)

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 12 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Ryzaki]

biddypocket wrote...

Seneva wrote...

You meet more bi/gay/lesbians in any BIO game then you meet in RL.

...ummm....I'm sorry, but honey, what freaking world do you live in?

o_O.

*points to rock* get out from under it, please.

That's kind of harsh Biddy.

S/he might actually not know any gay people.

What? It might be the case. :innocent:

Edit: Anyone crazy enough to think that ACTIVISION was going to do them any favors must be insane.  The thing could have had a million signatures and it wouldn't have made a difference. Activision is ridculous. Trying to threaten SONY pfft. Honestly ugh. Activision has gone waaaayyyy downhill.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 février 2010 - 09:42 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Yeled wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

I must admit having a hard time with that simply because EA has a great policy towards GLBT employees.
Here's an article about EA, Microsoft, *and* Gamestop!

There is a difference between what a progressive company in a progressive location might offer its employees internally and what it might release to the masses in its products.  Not saying Sabul's hearsay comments are true, but that could be an explanation if they are.

Seeing what BW did in the past it's pretty obvious that BW is totally fine with giving the players the option. That they did NOT in ME, even though there are tons of hints and innuendo going on (See Jack and Tali/FemShep) makes it very probable that they were forced to. And I will never buy the argument that it was the artist's choice to cut that content. The whole game is based on choices and alliances and relations with all sorts of people and creatures. Omitting gay relationships feels unnatural in this setting. 
Summary: EA grovelled before homophobics and forces BW to cut the already planned and partially realized (see VO's that are on the discs) content. 

That's why i support thread like this: it give BW the leverage to go to EA and tell them that they need to include this content for their fans because they demand it! 

[FKA_Servo]

Not necessarily agreeing with your first point, but you might have an argument if that inclusion makes no sense in context. However, in Mass Effect, the inclusion of gay relationships makes more sense than the exclusion of it.



Besides, this isn't necessarily something that would be built from the ground up. By all accounts this stuff may be there and 90% complete. You don't necessarily need a 200k strong petition to convince them to possibly revisit that and finish it up, especially if it the character building and immersion is richer for it.

[JamesMoriarty123]

EA couldn't give a toss what 300 gay people think to be honest...not when the potential blowback from the inclusion of such a thing could outweigh that amount by a large margin.

For once though, I'm glad EA exist. Pandering to every minority who ever requested anything is just a silly idea.