1769 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Sabul wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Not to mention the kind of game this is. That demographic is more of the halo, modern warefare, tekken types. The 16 year olds that would be into a good storyline are probably not the ones that'll go: "M/M!?! ICKY!" and not buy the game. <_<

Or maybe I'm just optimistic about human intelligence.

Well by making ME2 more FPSesque Bioware was trying to appeal a bit to that crowd. It still does overlook the origional demograpic.

I don't want the console kiddies ruining my games. (No console kiddies =/= someone using a console. Console kiddies = those brats on Xbox Live screaming every 5 seconds).

NOOOOOOOO!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 février 2010 - 11:22 .

[biddypocket]

BrandNewMan wrote...

James isn't a troll, he just has a differing opinion. He brings up solid points, too.

In defense of James, although I disagree, there are people worth reporting and he isn't one of them. Or, at least, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's being outright rude/abusive.

[Ryzaki]

sw33ts wrote...

Yes we do. 

No. No You Don't.

[Collider]

biddypocket wrote...
You're quite right, but it still doesn't change the fact that their sexualities were never outright stated. You're basing your observations off heteornormative assumptions that everyone who isn't outspoken about their attraction to the same sex must be heterosexual. It's a common fallacy, so I understand.

I am saying they are heterosexual in a practical sense. We've solid indication that they are heterosexual, yet we've none for being bisexual. If we have to apply sexualities to these characters, I would go with what gender they are undoubtedly attracted to. Again, Bioware suddenly changing ME2 characters to be attracted to the same sex is changing their character, and retconning. And for what, all 1% of the people who want it? Yes, let's have Bioware divert their resources to please all those 10 people who want it, instead of DLC that doesn't character assassinate, like Hammerhead and such.

Anddd...it's schway more than 1%. I suggest reading Kinsey's "Sexual Behavior and the Human Male." It's only about....700-800 pages or so. You'll find some convincing and surprising numbers there. And, if you know anything about psychologial research metholodoloy, you'd know how well the studies were run.

Please. I know sexuality is complex, it is not black and white.

[sw33ts]

biddypocket wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

James isn't a troll, he just has a differing opinion. He brings up solid points, too.

In defense of James, although I disagree, there are people worth reporting and he isn't one of them. Or, at least, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's being outright rude/abusive.

Lol he just said something along the lines...of yay f/f but EW m/m...IN A GAY ROMANCE TOPIC.  Talk about trollin lol.

[Creature 1]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

The point is that being black isn't a genetic abberation like being gay.

??  Being gay isn't a genetic aberration.  It's quite normal. 

I wonder how you would define "genetic aberration" anyways.  At most being gay might involve possessing several uncommon alleles, but that's hardly a genetic aberration.  But in general it appears gay people have the same genetic makeup as the average population. 

[DaeJi]

Collider wrote...
Bad example. You are talking about changing sexual orientations. Not adding a completely new romance to a character altogether. Another reason why your comparison is terrible is because of the LARGE fan demand for Garrus and Tali to be heterosexual romance options. Those fans who wanted their Garrus and Tali for female and male shepards respectively dwarf the amount who want them to be homosexual.

I was replying to your point that these are BioWare's characters and that fans don't have an imput in how they develop.

[PyroFreak301]

BrandNewMan wrote...

James isn't a troll, he just has a differing opinion. He brings up solid points, too.

He can hold a half decent discussion until he runs out of things to argue, but then rather than agree to disagree, he'll start attacking people and become generally offensive by spouting your standard anti-gay crap.

[Sabul]

Collider wrote...


Removing the options is about the same thing in practical terms. It's funny that you say MY comparison is flawed yet you bring up the terrible comparison of MISSIONS and a character's PERSONALITY. If you can't see the obvious difference between these, you are blind.

I am aware a mission and a personality trait are two different things. My point was these things were created and set for final release. It was just as much a part of the game as that cut mission was. Just because it was removed at the last minute for undisclosed reasons does not make it any less valid.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Collider wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
Ever consider that BioWare did not want Garrus to be a love interest? It's their character, it seems much more like and realistic that... oh, wait.

Bad example. You are talking about changing sexual orientations. Not adding a completely new romance to a character altogether. Another reason why your comparison is terrible is because of the LARGE fan demand for Garrus and Tali to be heterosexual romance options. Those fans who wanted their Garrus and Tali for female and male shepards respectively dwarf the amount who want them to be homosexual.

Yeah, the Tali for ME3 support thread is already at 13.5K replies compared to a paltry amount over here. It just isn't big enough of a deal to be considered if you ask me. The fact they just sold 2 million units in week one without ANY major protest whatsoever is pretty definitive.

[catabuca]

biddypocket wrote...

BrandNewMan wrote...

James isn't a troll, he just has a differing opinion. He brings up solid points, too.

In defense of James, although I disagree, there are people worth reporting and he isn't one of them. Or, at least, I haven't seen anything to suggest he's being outright rude/abusive.

There have been a couple of choice moments when his language and demeanor have become offensive and outwardly homophobic. Regardless of someone's right to have a differing opinion, which I will always defend, being outwardly offensive is a different matter. I'm always prepared to engage with someone. I'm also prepared to call someone out for behaviour that is unacceptable.

[Beregar]

Collider wrote...
You are trying to minimalize the importance of sexual orientation, yet you are pushing for Bioware to change those sexual orientations. Come on. I don't think there is anything sacred about it. But you will seem to be a hypocrite to me if you say that sexual orientation is unimportant yet you want Bioware to change the sexual orientations of its characters.

Of course it is important in a sense that it allows us to romance them in the game, but the fact remains that it does not change the character. At most it changes your perception of the character. The character doesn't suddenly turn "gay" or start dressing up in drag after the "big revelation". If you turn them down they follow the straight path. These aren't even real people so their actions are even more limited!

I mean do you pick your friends based on their sexual orientation? If someone tells you they are bi or gay after you have thought them to be straight does knowing it somehow change them? It shouldn't. They have most likely been that person for a very long time so why would they suddenly change what they are and start behaving differently? Unless you decide to go all homophobic on them in which case there's bound to be some sort of backlash.

Sure, they might act more open about it if they find you are okay with but that doesn't mean they are going to rape you if you pass out drunk, or start wearing pink, or spontaneously spout poetry, or whatever stereotype you might believe in. Though if you are a hot guy and a good friend you can be pretty sure they check you out at times - but hey they have done that multiple times before that revelation, perhaps even had a crush on you.

(I mean I've a few totally hot straight friends and coworkers.... mmm)

[Collider]

DaeJi wrote...
I was replying to your point that these are BioWare's characters and that fans don't have an imput in how they develop.

Except, I never even stated that. I never stated at all that fan feedback has no influence, or that Bioware does not care or is influenced by fan feedback. In fact, I would be the first to argue that Bioware listens and is affected. My point was that some of you should consider that Bioware may want these characters to remain heterosexual. That a small amount of people wanting characters to be retconned into bisexuality isn't exactly a pressing issue for Bioware.

[BrianWilly]

James has "points" insofar as he is eloquent and makes actual conversation, but let's not sugarcoat: he has trolled and has been trolling these threads for a long time. How many "lul I'm going to laugh at all you homos when you don't get what you want" posts has he made? His only real redeeming feature is that he drives a lot of conversation which keeps this topic visible. Hell, his own post count in these threads outnumbers practically everyone here.

[JamesMoriarty123]

catabuca wrote...
 I'm also prepared to call someone out for behaviour that is unacceptable.

Yet everyone is quick to forget that Ninja Mage brought the flame first, and wasn't called out at all. Gay's sticking together to go against the "homophobic, closeminded straight guy" much?
Lol.

[JamesMoriarty123]

BrianWilly wrote...

James has "points" insofar as he is eloquent and makes actual conversation, but let's not sugarcoat: he has trolled and has been trolling these threads for a long time. How many "lul I'm going to laugh at all you homos when you don't get what you want" posts has he made? His only real redeeming feature is that he drives a lot of conversation which keeps this topic visible. Hell, his own post count in these threads outnumbers practically everyone here.

What can I say, I'm addicted to the debate.

EDIT: At least if I'm a bigot, I'm glad I'm an eloquent bigot. Cheers bud.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 12 février 2010 - 11:30 .

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
I am aware a mission and a personality trait are two different things. My point was these things were created and set for final release. It was just as much a part of the game as that cut mission was. Just because it was removed at the last minute for undisclosed reasons does not make it any less valid.

The problem I have with what you said is that you seem to think that cut content or deleted content still defines the character. This is not neccessarily true, if at all. Jack may have been originally planned to be an exactly different character with a polar opposite personality. Content is cut and modified all the time, this is normal. Revision makes the better game. This happens in writing almost invariably, it is what all the authors do. They have an idea, they revise it or scrap it altogether.

[Sabul]

I really must say though. Collider is my favourite person to disagree with in this topic. He is not against a new gay or bisexual character. Only changing previous ones. I think this really must be resaid as I worry some of us have forgotten that. Not to mention his posts are well thought out and very readable. More than could be said of some others.

[catabuca]

Anyway, to change things up a bit, did someone post a link to Kaidan/manShep slash earlier? Because, you know, I wouldn't mind reading that.

[KumoriOokami]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Collider wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
Ever consider that BioWare did not want Garrus to be a love interest? It's their character, it seems much more like and realistic that... oh, wait.

Bad example. You are talking about changing sexual orientations. Not adding a completely new romance to a character altogether. Another reason why your comparison is terrible is because of the LARGE fan demand for Garrus and Tali to be heterosexual romance options. Those fans who wanted their Garrus and Tali for female and male shepards respectively dwarf the amount who want them to be homosexual.

Yeah, the Tali for ME3 support thread is already at 13.5K replies compared to a paltry amount over here. It just isn't big enough of a deal to be considered if you ask me. The fact they just sold 2 million units in week one without ANY major protest whatsoever is pretty definitive.

Well I definitely don't want anything bad to happen to Tali in ME3 either.   I like Tali to be not dead!

Modifié par KumoriOokami, 12 février 2010 - 11:32 .

[catabuca]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

catabuca wrote...
 I'm also prepared to call someone out for behaviour that is unacceptable.

Yet everyone is quick to forget that Ninja Mage brought the flame first, and wasn't called out at all. Gay's sticking together to go against the "homophobic, closeminded straight guy" much?
Lol.

I'm not gay.

[PyroFreak301]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

catabuca wrote...
 I'm also prepared to call someone out for behaviour that is unacceptable.

Yet everyone is quick to forget that Ninja Mage brought the flame first, and wasn't called out at all. Gay's sticking together to go against the "homophobic, closeminded straight guy" much?
Lol.

You assume everyone here that disagrees with you is gay?

Your attitude stinks, you dont have to be gay to see that.

[sw33ts]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

James has "points" insofar as he is eloquent and makes actual conversation, but let's not sugarcoat: he has trolled and has been trolling these threads for a long time. How many "lul I'm going to laugh at all you homos when you don't get what you want" posts has he made? His only real redeeming feature is that he drives a lot of conversation which keeps this topic visible. Hell, his own post count in these threads outnumbers practically everyone here.

What can I say, I'm addicted to the debate.

Maybe you're addicted to us...

You love the gays.  Don't you...DON'T YOU?! 

We love you too.<3

[Ashton808]

I do not support it.



disgusting.

[Ryzaki]

catabuca wrote...

Anyway, to change things up a bit, did someone post a link to Kaidan/manShep slash earlier? Because, you know, I wouldn't mind reading that.

Well I have a few links. (They're not necessarily good T_T but they're readable. Alas. 'Tis mostly smut.) 

Very sexy and hawt smut. But...just smut. 

I can find several decent DA slash fics involving Alistair that aren't just smut but I can't for ME.

Bah. I can't wait for Awakening to come out and steal it from my roomie. :innocent:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 février 2010 - 11:33 .