1769 réponses à ce sujet

[LtShelfLife]

FataliTensei wrote...
I wouldn't say he's been established as straight, the poor guy just hasn't has anyone to hit on

Thats true I guess. 

[Jimmy Fury]

LtShelfLife wrote...
Jokes aside, being openly gay I would fully support and M/M relationship in ME3 but at this point, it might just feel tacted on. Shepard has already been established as a straight guy so unless it took some route you'd expect to find in a fanfic along the lines of either Shepard being a huge closet case or some new crew member saying something along the lines of "So, you've never even thought about being with a guy?" which would feel a little tired and cliché IMHO. If they did do it it would have to be done very well so it's probably best to keep the metaphorical can of worms well sealed.

The only way for Shep's sexuality to be established is if the player had him or her romance a squad member already.
One of the suggestions for how a s/s romance could be included in a way that protects the delicate sensibillities of certain people is to lock out the option if Shepard has already romanced someone (except, of course, for Fem.Shep romancing Liara since that already is same-sex).

[tmelange]

Taiko Roshi wrote...

...

I challenge you to stop spam posting this thread and bumping it. Let see how long it last on the front page. No one, asides from a very small minority, actually cares.

I care about this topic. I just posted a comment on the hate Tali thread and it came to mind that they've managed to turn all the women from ME1 into love interests (Ashley, Liara and Tali) AND have added three additional male het romanceables in ME2 (Miranda, Jack and Kelly) yet BW didn't have enough time, resources or interest to continue their trend of giving at least short shrift to a gay romance option. The more I think about it, the less I like the ME dev team, and the entire ME franchise. I feel there's a message being sent here, a decision that was made behind the scenes that THIS franchise would be the one that is "mainstream" and that has equated to backing off of important stances that the company has taken in the past. The only relevant point I get from ME is that het males should be allowed to f*uck everything with breasts -- young, old, human, non-human, subordinate, non-subordinate, wise or unwise -- and that everything in the game should pander to that universal fact. It's boring, and tiresome, and I'm really not impressed with BW's vision of the future. Looks too much like today. 

[Yeled]

tmelange: I don't know if I go that far, since BW has definitely supported that kind of thing in other games, unlike most companies. You have to give them credit for that.



But I agree it does make a statement that m/m content was considered, produced, and cut from the final product. I also think that some of their "official" comments can be said to drip with hypocracy if, in fact, they cut content as a deliberate act of censorship, whether it was self inflicted or EA forced them. They claim artistic licence and that Shepherd is an established character that you direct but don't create. That's all well and good (though I don't necessarily agree with it), but if they censored the material because they or EA feared controversy, then its hypocritical to claim artistic license. Censorship is the antithesis of artistic license. Its curbing their art and pandering.

[Akrim_Drak]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

LtShelfLife wrote...
Jokes aside, being openly gay I would fully support and M/M relationship in ME3 but at this point, it might just feel tacted on. Shepard has already been established as a straight guy so unless it took some route you'd expect to find in a fanfic along the lines of either Shepard being a huge closet case or some new crew member saying something along the lines of "So, you've never even thought about being with a guy?" which would feel a little tired and cliché IMHO. If they did do it it would have to be done very well so it's probably best to keep the metaphorical can of worms well sealed.

The only way for Shep's sexuality to be established is if the player had him or her romance a squad member already.
One of the suggestions for how a s/s romance could be included in a way that protects the delicate sensibillities of certain people is to lock out the option if Shepard has already romanced someone (except, of course, for Fem.Shep romancing Liara since that already is same-sex).

I'm hoping that's what they end up doing. Lock it out unless you have a single Shep to import. I dunno how that will work with new players to ME3 though but I'm all for doing it that way. My Shepard's been single since day 1. Only case of the flirts I got was with Mordin.
...and the half dozen Asari on Illium that you either don't talk to at all or deal with it.

Edit: Then again I consider myself gay but I absolutely fell in love with Samara. There's something about her... It must be the supposed Asari pheramones. It has to be!

Modifié par Akrim_Drak, 13 février 2010 - 04:43 .

[jlb524]

I support this thread. M/M anything is completely lacking from the game. A lesbian/bi femshep can at least affirm her sexuality. She can romance Liara, 'romance' Kelly, and even ask for sex or a relationship from Samara (though she is denied). Gay or bi male Shepards get nothing.

[Jimmy Fury]

Akrim_Drak wrote...
I'm hoping that's what they end up doing. Lock it out unless you have a single Shep to import. I dunno how that will work with new players to ME3 though but I'm all for doing it that way. My Shepard's been single since day 1. Only case of the flirts I got was with Mordin.
...and the half dozen Asari on Illium that you either don't talk to at all or deal with it.

Edit: Then again I consider myself gay but I absolutely fell in love with Samara. There's something about her... It must be the supposed Asari pheramones. It has to be!

New players could just get all the options. It's not like they can complain that their Shepard has been straight for two games so far...lol

It could be Samara's man-jaw...
I adore her but daaaaang she got a man jaw.
(I'm partial to her 1000-yard stare myself)

[tmelange]

Yeled wrote...

tmelange: I don't know if I go that far, since BW has definitely supported that kind of thing in other games, unlike most companies. You have to give them credit for that.

But I agree it does make a statement that m/m content was considered, produced, and cut from the final product. I also think that some of their "official" comments can be said to drip with hypocracy if, in fact, they cut content as a deliberate act of censorship, whether it was self inflicted or EA forced them. They claim artistic licence and that Shepherd is an established character that you direct but don't create. That's all well and good (though I don't necessarily agree with it), but if they censored the material because they or EA feared controversy, then its hypocritical to claim artistic license. Censorship is the antithesis of artistic license. Its curbing their art and pandering.

I don't hate BW or anything for making their own strategic and corporate choices, and I'm not saying I won't buy their games; I'm just saying that ME is my least favorite of their franchises because I get this feeling that they went a bit overboard in trying to make the franchise mainstream, to the detriment of what I would find interesting in a BW game. Not only do I get the feeling from this franchise that an m/m option was specifically excluded to avoid controversy (rather than what they claim), but I also think they wanted to de-emphasize the romances generally, because they feel really shallow, awkward and divorced from the main story in ME2 and tacked on for the novelty factor. I just...ME is not my favorite BW franchise at all. I hope this does not become a trend.

[Maria13]

No same sex romances in Mass Effect 2?  Bugger. 

I'm female straight playing a female Shep but I've just met Jack and she's by far the most interesting romance option so far in the game.  So, I'm with you.

[Conway044]

Shavon wrote...

/signed. I was trolled a little too much last time for my opinions, hence this one and only post.


I'll just reiterate: Female gamers get an f/f romance (whether or not alien doesn't 'count', the general consensus is that Liara is female, meaning she is a female romance option for female players). I hope to see Bioware add gay romance as an option for male players in ME3.

For now, there is special tweaking on PC versions, but that's hardly fair to xbox players, especially if they decide not to release ME3 on PC.

I don't really have strong feelings on this issue but I did want to chime in on two things.  While most people do see Liara as female, she herself tells you that male and female have no meaning to Asari.  Now female pronouns are used for the Asari throughout the game, so there is certainly an arguement to be made for either side.  I'm just in the middle of an ME 1 playthrough and have been chatting with her.

There is no chance that Bioware would not release ME 3 on the PC. 

Modifié par Conway044, 13 février 2010 - 05:01 .

[Yeled]

Conway044 wrote...

I don't really have strong feelings on this issue but I did want to chime in on two things.  While most people do see Liara as female, she herself tells you that male and female have no meaning to Asari.  Now female pronouns are used for the Asari throughout the game, so there is certainly an arguement to be made for either side.  I'm just in the middle of an ME 1 playthrough and have been chatting with her.

 

Yes, but Liara is female as all Asari are female.  Whether or not Liara thinks about a relationship with femshep as one consisting of two females, femshep definitely thinks about Liara as female.  So from a female Shepherd's perspective, and the gamers who play her, she is engaging in a relationship with another woman.

This is also born out in Samara's loyalty story with Morinth in ME2.  I won't include the details to avoid spoilers, but we have evidence that human females think of asari this way.

[Conway044]

Yeled wrote...

tmelange: I don't know if I go that far, since BW has definitely supported that kind of thing in other games, unlike most companies. You have to give them credit for that.

But I agree it does make a statement that m/m content was considered, produced, and cut from the final product. I also think that some of their "official" comments can be said to drip with hypocracy if, in fact, they cut content as a deliberate act of censorship, whether it was self inflicted or EA forced them. They claim artistic licence and that Shepherd is an established character that you direct but don't create. That's all well and good (though I don't necessarily agree with it), but if they censored the material because they or EA feared controversy, then its hypocritical to claim artistic license. Censorship is the antithesis of artistic license. Its curbing their art and pandering.

Your position seems to be based on your own feelings as to why they chose to cut the gay romance subplots.  Unless you have access to their internal discussions there is no way to decide if the decision was the result of outside censorship, self censorship to "pander", or an honest decision made to tell the story the creators wanted(which is their right). 

I understand not being happy when you don't get everything that you want, but attacking people's character and making up motivations for individuals you don't know is a bit childish.  Unless you have access to their internal decision making processes, in which case I would owe you an appology.

[Conway044]

Yeled wrote...

Conway044 wrote...

I don't really have strong feelings on this issue but I did want to chime in on two things.  While most people do see Liara as female, she herself tells you that male and female have no meaning to Asari.  Now female pronouns are used for the Asari throughout the game, so there is certainly an arguement to be made for either side.  I'm just in the middle of an ME 1 playthrough and have been chatting with her.

 

Yes, but Liara is female as all Asari are female.  Whether or not Liara thinks about a relationship with femshep as one consisting of two females, femshep definitely thinks about Liara as female.  So from a female Shepherd's perspective, and the gamers who play her, she is engaging in a relationship with another woman.

This is also born out in Samara's loyalty story with Morinth in ME2.  I won't include the details to avoid spoilers, but we have evidence that human females think of asari this way.

I don't disagree at all.  I've just noticed that Liara's own feelings are rarely considered.  Just wanted to make sure they were represented at least once.  The fact that the developers decided to clearly make the Asari look like human women supports you 100%.  There isn't any rational reason for Asari to look exactly like human women with funky heads.  Giving all female aliens breasts is something that gets a bit annoying after a while.   

[Yeled]

Conway044 wrote...

Your position seems to be based on your own feelings as to why they chose to cut the gay romance subplots.  Unless you have access to their internal discussions there is no way to decide if the decision was the result of outside censorship, self censorship to "pander", or an honest decision made to tell the story the creators wanted(which is their right). 

I understand not being happy when you don't get everything that you want, but attacking people's character and making up motivations for individuals you don't know is a bit childish.  Unless you have access to their internal decision making processes, in which case I would owe you an appology.

Actually, since I'm straight its not precisely what I want....

But you're right.  Which is why I said "if" it turns out to be true its hypocritical.  There is strong evidence to support the notion that leaving that content out was due to censorship, especially since it was written, produced, voiced, etc. but ultimately not included for some reason.  But we don't know.  Its possible they did all that work and decided they didn't like the end result.

[Lopake]

I feel for the gays but i dont think a gay marine is a good political statement

[Lopake]

for the male shep ofcourse

[SimonTheFrog]

Conway044 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

tmelange: I don't know if I go that far, since BW has definitely supported that kind of thing in other games, unlike most companies. You have to give them credit for that.

But I agree it does make a statement that m/m content was considered, produced, and cut from the final product. I also think that some of their "official" comments can be said to drip with hypocracy if, in fact, they cut content as a deliberate act of censorship, whether it was self inflicted or EA forced them. They claim artistic licence and that Shepherd is an established character that you direct but don't create. That's all well and good (though I don't necessarily agree with it), but if they censored the material because they or EA feared controversy, then its hypocritical to claim artistic license. Censorship is the antithesis of artistic license. Its curbing their art and pandering.

Your position seems to be based on your own feelings as to why they chose to cut the gay romance subplots.  Unless you have access to their internal discussions there is no way to decide if the decision was the result of outside censorship, self censorship to "pander", or an honest decision made to tell the story the creators wanted(which is their right). 

I understand not being happy when you don't get everything that you want, but attacking people's character and making up motivations for individuals you don't know is a bit childish.  Unless you have access to their internal decision making processes, in which case I would owe you an appology.

Agreed... but often the most obvious solutions are the correct ones.

In this case: BW has a history of including m/m and f/f romances in their games. That includes both medieval fantasy and scifi games. So, what is different with ME that from an artistic point of view this sort of romance is inappropriate? 
If you then look at all the innuendo and f/f stuff that they DID include, it's becoming even less understandable why gay romances should be inappropriate in this game. 
When you look at the big picture of BW's history and this type of game, it's just NOT MAKING SENSE AT ALL to exclude this option.

Hence the doubt that they felt it was artisticly necessary to cut the already produced content from happening ingame.

*** edit ***
Being a marine, or soldier anyway, is a job. Not genetic disposition. There is no connection either way between the job and the sexual orientation of the employee... and in my eyes: a gay marine would be an awesome statement. Just like gay cowboys etc.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 13 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Lopake wrote...

I feel for the gays but i dont think a gay marine is a good political statement

1: It's not a political statement.
2: Shepard's not a marine.
3: Lt. Dan Choi, The most vocal and well known case of DADT resulting in the loss of an arab linguist,
the poster boy for repealing DADT, was recently called back  to
combat duty. This is *after* he was taken out of combat duty and set to
be discharged for being openly gay.

[PyroFreak301]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Lopake wrote...

I feel for the gays but i dont think a gay marine is a good political statement

1: It's not a political statement.
2: Shepard's not a marine.
3: Lt. Dan Choi, The most vocal and well known case of DADT resulting in the loss of an arab linguist,
the poster boy for repealing DADT, was recently called back  to
combat duty. This is *after* he was taken out of combat duty and set to
be discharged for being openly gay.

I hadn't heard about this, but it's good news.

America has been pretty behind the rest of western society on the DADT rule, pretty much every country in the EU allows gay people to serve openly. It's good to see their society actively trying to give people the rights and freedoms they deserve.

[Fade9wayz]

Besides, we are talking about Earth Marines, not US Marines, in some distant, hypothetical future. Your famous DADT might simply not exist.
Even now and here, you can be openly gay and still follow a military carrier in many other countries, albeit you'll probably have to contend with some prejudice, depending on how accepting the society of this country is about homosexuality. Being gay wouldn't be a cause for being fired from the forces in any case.

Edit-> ah, we must have posted at the same time, Pyro

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 13 février 2010 - 05:52 .

[Sabul]

Beregar wrote...

Heh ditto. I just have hard time performing renegade actions even in game. I mean I know it's just a game but still...

I also share the interest about knowing NPCs and their backgrounds without wanting to sound like a jerk - even if they are in game characters. I mean it's pretty easy to figure out signs of someone being interested in you in real life and turn down them gently, actually slightly adjusting your behaviour so that it doesn't even come down to that. I can think only one time in my life where I had to outright tell someone I'm not interested in them. After that I learned to do a bit more "preventive damage control" if the signs were there.

Sadly I think there's some truth to the NPC reactions. If you are willing to listen someone, be nice to them, and learn about their life, troubles and everything, it seems they eventually start showing interest in you. Sometimes even if they are in a relationship.

I would have to agree with you on the NPCs. I suppose that is one bit of realism gamers would prefer not having though. Or atleast have a clear way for Shepard to initiate it and then  those reactions can begin.

[Sabul]

PyroFreak301 wrote...

I hadn't heard about this, but it's good news.

America has been pretty behind the rest of western society on the DADT rule, pretty much every country in the EU allows gay people to serve openly. It's good to see their society actively trying to give people the rights and freedoms they deserve.

What I find most amusing is Bioware is not even an American company. Yet in it's vision of the future American policies rule the Alliance? I am sorry but I could have sworn it was a entirely new military branch representative of the entire human race originally funded by all countries and ruled by none.

Modifié par Sabul, 13 février 2010 - 06:11 .

[Sabul]

I came across the ME2 mod two weeks ago or so. It was still in the early stages. It required you to play through the game as a female Shepard till after you beat it. Then the mod transforms you into male Shepard. When you call whoever you romanced up to your room it allows you to do the cuddling together and all that from ME2 as m/m. As far as I am aware a proper unlock mod has not been completed however is still in the works.

Modifié par Sabul, 13 février 2010 - 06:38 .