1769 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
Collider: Haha. I was wondering when you would return.No one has called Bioware any of those things.

This is somewhat true, in the context of this thread and my own experience. Meaning I have not specifically seen anyone in this thread saying that Bioware is making political statements or being offensive in regards to the inclusion or exclusion of homosexual content. However, I HAVE seen it in other threads, where people seem to think that Bioware is obligated to include them and if they don't, they are being offensive or whatever.

My point was it was companies like Bioware including actual realistic gay characters in their games that were making such things no longer taboo.

Yea, that's true, portraying homosexuals in video games contribute to the eventual toleration of them - if done "right." Not that it's Bioware job to do it. To be fair, the most blatant homosexual male romance, Zevran, isn't exactly the a perfect portrayal of an average joe kind of person. Zevran isn't without his vices, among them the morally questionable assassinations. In that regard, should Bioware make another homosexual romance, it may be "better" in my eyes for it to be someone rather mild or at the very least more morally correct. However, I do hold the wishes of the writers and the integrity of the characters as most important above all.

Modifié par Collider, 14 février 2010 - 07:31 .

[Sabul]

Collider: You seem a bit more aggressive and confrontational today. Is everything alright?



LOST SPARTANJLC: I agree with you. As far as I am aware this topic is not demanding anything but rather making suggestions and letting them know their is a group interested in this content. Much the same as the Tali and Garrus fans.

[Collider]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Simmer simmer nobody is denying you your opinion.

Fair enough. You responded to me, so I responded to you. I never said that no one is allowed or shouldn't be allowed their opinions. I was merely stating mine.

I said that people are allowed to think whatever the heck they want to think.

I agree.

(Am I the only one who sees the irony in "You can't have that opinion." "IT'S MY OPINION!!!")

That would be ironic, had I expressed that, but I didn't.

Modifié par Collider, 14 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
Collider: You seem a bit more aggressive and confrontational today. Is everything alright?

That's actually funny that you mention because I considered what I posted today to be less acerbic than when I posted before. Emotion and feelings are often lost within typed words, so let me go ahead and say that I don't feel aggressive. Debating is among the things I love to do, in general.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Bleak? The vision of the future Bioware has isn't nearly bleak enough.



I don't see why the Systems Alliance shouldn't have regulations and standards comparable to the American military. Yet most people probably think the Systems Alliance should mirror their own society and military. And naturally some countries are more conservative or liberal than others in terms of social views. So I think it would make for Bioware to take a "middle-ground" approach.



Anyway I am done feeding this nightmare of a topic. I gave my opinions, your not changing them (this is the internet after all), and my continued involvement will just lead to me hating each and every one of you.

[Collider]

Or they could just not mention whatsoever the Alliance's policy towards the LGBT community, if there even *is* a policy.

[Sabul]

]Collider: I understand what is making you upset. For the most part the people in this topic have been very rational however. Please do not let your feelings towards other affect your interaction with those here. We tend to have very differing opinions.

I did not think it was their job to do so. however they were doing so for a good while now. So it is understandable for fans to feel let down when things suddenly seem to change. Zevran was an interesting character. I did enjoy him. However upon reading some posts on the old forums I felt uneasy about players having the option to kill him right off the bat. That started when I read of people enjoying to kill him when they found his sexual orientation. I agree though a more realistic and I suppose likable is the word character would be best.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

You sure about that , I'm not entirely convince everyone's on that page.Not exclusive to this thread but other threads some think because it was done on one game , you've got to allow it it for another game.



On the previous post yes some really do think that it's bad enough to cause folks to run wild in the streets.Churches / Religious places torn down or remade into something wicked.But again it's no different than the civil rights issue.



Yes , I know were only talking about one game , but some believe if you give here it spreads like wildfire to other things.

[Sabul]

Collider: This is good. I must admit I was a little worried about you mate. It just seemed like something was really bothering you.

ReconTeam: You amuse me. I really enjoyed having you here. Considering the Systems Alliance was funded by all countries on Earth and was not under any ones rule. I cannot imagine one countries policies outweighing all others. Even now more countries permit homosexual to serve than not to do so. One would think come the time of Mass Effect these numbers would be even higher.

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
]Collider: I understand what is making you upset.

Oh, upset is a bit of an exaggeration. I don't really argue with people invariably because I am upset or anything of that sort. A simple disagreement is enough.

For the most part the people in this topic have been very rational however. Please do not let your feelings towards other affect your interaction with those here. We tend to have very differing opinions.

I have and still stress that I am arguing against other's arguments, and not arguing against them, if you know what I mean. I have no particular ill will towards anyone person in this thread, because I know to seperate a person's arguments from a person's character, except in extreme cases. Whether the people I am arguing against adopts the same philosophy is another question.

I did not think it was their job to do so. however they were doing so for a good while now. So it is understandable for fans to feel let down when things suddenly seem to change.

Down is fine, the line is drawn when people begin to regard Bioware as considering the LGBT community lesser.

Zevran was an interesting character. I did enjoy him. However upon reading some posts on the old forums I felt uneasy about players having the option to kill him right off the bat. That started when I read of people enjoying to kill him when they found his sexual orientation. I agree though a more realistic and I suppose likable is the word character would be best.

Actually, you've no indication that he may be bisexual upon the opportunity to kill if, if you've no outside references. I actually did kill Zevran, because he tried to kill me. If I am not mistaken, you do not have the ability to kill him upon finding out he is bisexual in camp. You've another opportunity to kill Zevran later in the game, but it is seperate from the initial reveal of his sexuality.

Modifié par Collider, 14 février 2010 - 07:40 .

[AnathamaDye]

I actually am surprised this isn't in, I agree with this.

I don't understand why this upsets people though...if you don't want "your" Shepard gay then don't make him/her gay.  Like with femshep.  If you don't want her to be a lesbian don't make her fall in love with Liara (yes I know her species is different but she is still a girl) or that Kelly girl. 

I am a female shep and will probably not play as a male shep but I think it'd be nice to have more options for people.  Though I was upset I couldn't romance with Jack   I went with Garrus on my second playthrough and my first one I imported my ME1 save and stuck with Liara.

Modifié par AnathamaDye, 14 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[Sabul]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

You sure about that , I'm not entirely convince everyone's on that page.Not exclusive to this thread but other threads some think because it was done on one game , you've got to allow it it for another game.

On the previous post yes some really do think that it's bad enough to cause folks to run wild in the streets.Churches / Religious places torn down or remade into something wicked.But again it's no different than the civil rights issue.

Yes , I know were only talking about one game , but some believe if you give here it spreads like wildfire to other things.

I make no claim to speak for all homosexuals or even any of those within this topic. A lot of us have very different opinions. The consensus within this thread seems to be for the most part very rational. Some people are just childish and should not be taken seriously. Even if they are attempting to support a similar cause.

Some people are morons. I do not know anyone who wishes to destroy organised religion or the society they live within. People reacted the same to black people not too long ago.

Modifié par Sabul, 14 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Personally I wish Bioware would release details of what might be in ME3.Then hold polls for certain features , it would solve the problem more or less.Not just this issue , because there's many more like a similar board about nudity censored vs what was in ME1

[Sabul]

Collider wrote: I happen to like you Collider even if we do not often seem to agree.

Please point out where I crossed this line. I am fairly certain I have never done so. I understand anger at others doing so. I consider them idiots myself. I made no such statement.

I am aware you could not kill him at the start. These people were enjoying doing so on their following playthroughs. It is fine to kill him because he attempted to kill you. They actually admitted to enjoying killing him because of his sexuality. That was what bothered me.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

My own personal view is society won't cease to exist and another group of people gain rights.

[Sabul]

AnathamaDye: I very much agree. Hopefully you will get your desired content come ME3.

LOST SPARTANJLC: That would be wonderful and I would love to see it happen. However it is not something I would consider likely. I also saw that nudity topic. It was rather condescending to call the fans "childish" iirc.

Haha. It is getting difficult to reply to all of you. I need Jimmy Fury back.

Modifié par Sabul, 14 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
Collider wrote: I happen to like you Collider even if we do not often seem to agree.

I feel the same. I also can't remember a time where we actually did not agree with eachother, instead of simply misinterpretating the other.

Please point out where I crossed this line. I am fairly certain I have never done so. I understand anger at others doing so. I consider them idiots myself. I made no such statement.

We've a misunderstanding. I was referring to other people when I talked about the line being drawn, not you at all.

They actually admitted to enjoying killing him because of his sexuality. That was what bothered me.

I agree, it is troubling to think that killing or harming people based upon their sexuality is right or entertaining. Though I have no problem with being able to kill Zevran in particular.

[Sabul]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

My own personal view is society won't cease to exist and another group of people gain rights.

Have I told you I like you yet? I have been meaning to do so.

[Collider]

Sabul wrote...
It was rather condescending to call the fans "childish" iirc.

I would have to agree with calling some of those people childish. Some of there arguments say that nudity is ultimately relatively inconsequential and unimportant to an adult audience. By the very same logic, you have the question of why nudity or more explicit sex is important to these people if they truly believe that nudity and sex in mass effect are largely trivial matters.

[AnathamaDye]

Sabul wrote...

AnathamaDye: I very much agree. Hopefully you will get your desired content come ME3.

Haha, thanks.  I am probably going to be sticking with Liara on my first playthrough in ME3, but I would like to see more options.  They did it in DragonAge right...and it's the same company.  I think they actually might make a male companion for a male shep in the third game with all these topics coming back.  Keep it up!!

[Sabul]

Collider: Haha. We should try not to do so then.

I know you were. I was just trying to say that your feelings toward them were not up for debate as I agree with them.

I have no problem with being able to kill him as well. I just have a problem with how people chose to view doing so. If he were not the only male romance option and I did not enjoy his character I would probably do so as well.

[Sabul]

Collider wrote...

I would have to agree with calling some of those people childish. Some of there arguments say that nudity is ultimately relatively inconsequential and unimportant to an adult audience. By the very same logic, you have the question of why nudity or more explicit sex is important to these people if they truly believe that nudity and sex in mass effect are largely trivial matters.

Well the topic was more about them changing their stance after fighting so hard for those scenes in the first game. They wanted to accurately portray adult relationships in an artistic way. This was understandable and very well done. Mass Effect was their art and it was splendid. To see them go from something so beautifully done to something so laughable. Well it is understandable for some fans to be upset.

AnathamaDye: I would like to see a male companion make it to release. However the Dragon Age team while part of Bioware is not the same as the Mass Effect team. Still the fact the ME team did intend a m/m option in the first and second games up until near release does show they are at least willing to consider doing so. I will do my best to help continue drumming up support as I am sure many others will. Thank you.

Modifié par Sabul, 14 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[BrianWilly]

Collider wrote...

Bioware is not obligated to make homosexual romances,

I do agree on this point in theory, though I will point out that making a homosexual romance in the first game and then coquettishly backpeddling from that sort of content in the second game is very suspect, and any examination of that decision would be well-deserved.  No one's dogpiling on Bungie or Rockstar for skimping on gay content, after all; Bioware opened this door themselves, both with this series and with their other games.

Collider wrote...

and the inclusion or exclusion of homosexual content is not indicative of Bioware's collective opinion regarding homosexuality.

The exclusion of homosexual content does not necessarily indicate homophobia on Bioware's part, that is very true.  But, but to blunt, it sends a very clear message.  That message might not be "We hate gays," but it can nonetheless be nearly as exclusionary.

"We're not comfortable putting gays in this product."
"Gay women are acceptable characters in our game.  Gay guys are not."
"Commander Shepard's race, gender, life history, skillset, interests, spirituality, temperment, world views, and choice of nine romantic interests between the two games are all up for you to decide...except that he can't be gay, that's totally pre-defined."

And so on and so forth.  Let's me try to be clearer on this point: no game in the world is obligated to do anything at all, much less adding an option to make the protaganist gay.  But when your company has a history of being open to this sort of content, and when your game itself seems flawlessly designed to accomodate that sort of content (with its emphasis on choice and character development and wide range of diverse romantic options) to the point where the exclusion of said content would feel more conspicuous than otherwise, and then you go ahead and specifically exclude that content...well, that sends a message all right, loud and clear.

[AnathamaDye]

Sabul:  They intended a m/m romance for both ME1 & ME2?  Who was it supposed to be and how did you find out?  Was it some script on the pc version?

[Sabul]

They intended both m/m and  f/f.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mwiqq-Y5r4

Dialog was recorded, scenes scripted and animated, as well as put into the story. The content is on the game disks finished or near finished. It was disabled near release. However can be reenabled via mods. The romance options for ME2 were supposed to be Thane and Jack as bisexuals.

BrianWilly: I am so happy to no longer be alone in here. Far too many replies.

Modifié par Sabul, 14 février 2010 - 08:12 .