1769 réponses à ce sujet

[biddypocket]

comicfan22 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...



Females being Bisexual is far more common than males being gay (and studies show men being bisexual is bullsh*t).

So the fact that I myself have loved both men and women is bull**t? I always have and I always will. I guess I must just not be real....

Sorry comicfan. You're WRONG. I believe mythical studies over you any day.

[KAT4N4]

biddypocket wrote...

Sabul wrote...

comicfan22 wrote...

Jack has also admitted to having a female love interest before so your argument is moot.

You really must know lesbians are far more common than gay males. Just read an article in most heterosexual men's magazines and you will learn of men having sex with multiple women at once. This obviously means women are far more inclined to homosexuality or bisexuality as the case may be. A five to zero ratio does not seem to unlikely given these breakthrough studies.

Sabul, I'm really interested to read these studies....becuase I don't think they're entirely true. Straight women who make out or have sex with other women in an attempt to please men may occur more visibly, but I would hardly call them bisexual/lesbian. There's a lot of literature to suggest they do it to please men, and do not actually enjoy it themselves. Although not as visible, there's just as many, if not more men seeking male/male "intimacy." Don't beleive me? Check out craigslist .

Also, I don't know if that post was meant to be sarcastic. If so, just ignore me

There are far more bisexual/lesbian women than gay men. It is not just because of "pleasing men" either. From a logic stand point, women are the more attractive/beautiful gender, so it makes sense woman would be attracted to them.  I know a bunch of gay/lesbian women and all of them are not doing it to "please men", I have even heard some of their boyfriends (of the bi ones) get jealous or worried they would cheat with a girl.

In regards to your Craigslist reference: it is obvious men are far more promiscuous than woman. Think of how many people men would sleep with if women were just as willing as men.

[Arik7]

KAT4N4 wrote...

Let me start by saying I am very liberal and support gay rights, gay marriage etc...

One of the main problems with having a gay Shepard is that the people you romance also have to be gay. In a squad of ~12 people, having at least 3 gay people (one option for girls, one for guys and of course Shepard) is a statistical anomaly. With only one romance option it would seem awfully convenient that you have a sexual attraction to the only gay squad member on the ship.

It would seem awfully convenient that a special-ops military team is filled with single attractive large-breasted women who all just happen to be attracted to their commanding officer.  Is that not an anomaly.  Normandy - the beer and boobs ship!

KAT4N4 wrote...
Having more than one option would make the Normandy the gayest ship in the galaxy. It also reduces the potential of straight romance options and is a large amount of content that will go largely unused. You could also argue that Shepard is simply not a gay character. Not having a gay option is not discrimination.

BioWare has stated that Shepard is YOUR character.  So their Shepard is not gay argument has no credibility, especially in light of the f/f relationships already present in the game.

[Sabul]

KAT4N4: I happen to know many male bisexual. I was even involved with a number of them for a time. Quite a few of them are dating women now or switch back and forth. Others are in open relationships where they are permitted to sleep with men on the side and their partner can sleep with whoever they wish as well. I am fairly certain they exist.



By the way my Shepard has been gay in both games. I have not been involved in any romances. Just because the romance options are there does not mean they were exercised by the player.



biddypocket: Haha. It was indeed sarcasm. I am sorry I should have made it more clear. I just thought referring to articles gentlemen's magazines as "breakthrough studies" would make it obvious enough. xD

[biddypocket]

KAT4N4 wrote...

biddypocket wrote...

Sabul wrote...

comicfan22 wrote...

Jack has also admitted to having a female love interest before so your argument is moot.

You really must know lesbians are far more common than gay males. Just read an article in most heterosexual men's magazines and you will learn of men having sex with multiple women at once. This obviously means women are far more inclined to homosexuality or bisexuality as the case may be. A five to zero ratio does not seem to unlikely given these breakthrough studies.

Sabul, I'm really interested to read these studies....becuase I don't think they're entirely true. Straight women who make out or have sex with other women in an attempt to please men may occur more visibly, but I would hardly call them bisexual/lesbian. There's a lot of literature to suggest they do it to please men, and do not actually enjoy it themselves. Although not as visible, there's just as many, if not more men seeking male/male "intimacy." Don't beleive me? Check out craigslist .

Also, I don't know if that post was meant to be sarcastic. If so, just ignore me

There are far more bisexual/lesbian women than gay men. It is not just because of "pleasing men" either. From a logic stand point, women are the more attractive/beautiful gender, so it makes sense woman would be attracted to them.  I know a bunch of gay/lesbian women and all of them are not doing it to "please men", I have even heard some of their boyfriends (of the bi ones) get jealous or worried they would cheat with a girl.

In regards to your Craigslist reference: it is obvious men are far more promiscuous than woman. Think of how many people men would sleep with if women were just as willing as men.

Link me with your empirical evidence, and I'll concede. You're not using logic, you're using false observations. There's a ton of studies/literature that proves you wrong. You could argue that there many be slightly more non-heterosexual women than men because there are simply more women on the planet, but proportionally they're about equal. 

And, just for reference, I think men are the more attractive/beautiful sex*. See what happenes when you use subjective observations?

[KAT4N4]

comicfan22 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...



Females being Bisexual is far more common than males being gay (and studies show men being bisexual is bullsh*t).

So the fact that I myself have loved both men and women is bull**t? I always have and I always will. I guess I must just not be real....

I would say you are gay, have female friends you love (but are not in love with them) and enjoy the feel of sex (who doesn't?)

Give this a read.
http://www.nytimes.c...alth/05sex.html

[JamieCOTC]

Liara "I'm not exactly a woman." = Bill Clinton "I didn't inhale." And what's the name of that new Kevin Smith movie? Cop Out?

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 15 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[Sabul]

KAT4N4 wrote...

There are far more bisexual/lesbian women than gay men. It is not just because of "pleasing men" either. From a logic stand point, women are the more attractive/beautiful gender, so it makes sense woman would be attracted to them.  I know a bunch of gay/lesbian women and all of them are not doing it to "please men", I have even heard some of their boyfriends (of the bi ones) get jealous or worried they would cheat with a girl.

In regards to your Craigslist reference: it is obvious men are far more promiscuous than woman. Think of how many people men would sleep with if women were just as willing as men.

You are aware what people find visually stimulating and "beautiful" is all subjective, right? I find my boyfriend beautiful. You would not think so as he is a man but I can assure you in my eyes there is no person male or female who could compare.

There are women who will make out with women to turn on their boyfriends. I would not consider these women bisexual but I take it you would.

I resent that statement. I have been in a long term committed relationship for a good while now. Neither of us have any desire to sleep with anyone else despite other men being "willing". Being gay is not the massive orgy most straight men seem to envision.

Modifié par Sabul, 15 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[biddypocket]

KAT4N4 wrote...

comicfan22 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...



Females being Bisexual is far more common than males being gay (and studies show men being bisexual is bullsh*t).

So the fact that I myself have loved both men and women is bull**t? I always have and I always will. I guess I must just not be real....

I would say you are gay, have female friends you love (but are not in love with them) and enjoy the feel of sex (who doesn't?)

Give this a read.
http://www.nytimes.c...alth/05sex.html

okay, first things first. If you want to play hardball science, don't send me NYTimes articles. Send me an APA reference with authors, title, journal, volume, issue, year, and pages.

I stopped reading after the first page when I saw that they had a sample of only 101 men. Kinsey himself had a database of qualitative interviews from over 100,000 men. So, your sample size is crap right from the start.

Without even reading the article, I can tell you that using a solely subjective measure of sexuality is HORRIBLE research methodology. If they wanted some hard, quantifiable data, they would have included some objective measurments as well (though I can't be certain as I haven't read the study). That scale they used must be pretty damn reliable (in terms of psychometrics and not common parlance) or this entire study is moot for me.

And, lastly, from the article itself:

" "The last thing you want," said Dr. Randall Sell, an assistant
professor of clinical socio-medical sciences at Columbia University,
"is for some therapists to see this study and start telling bisexual
people that they're wrong, that they're really on their way to
homosexuality."He added, "We don't know nearly enough about sexual orientation and identity" to jump to these conclusions." So, as the Columbia professor would agree, this is one tiny study with questionable research methodology facing a massive wall of research stating the opposite. As this article is published, there are likely to be many more stating the exact opposite results. That's psychology for ya.


Shizzam.

[KAT4N4]

Arik7 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

Let me start by saying I am very liberal and support gay rights, gay marriage etc...

One of the main problems with having a gay Shepard is that the people you romance also have to be gay. In a squad of ~12 people, having at least 3 gay people (one option for girls, one for guys and of course Shepard) is a statistical anomaly. With only one romance option it would seem awfully convenient that you have a sexual attraction to the only gay squad member on the ship.

It would seem awfully convenient that a special-ops military team is filled with single attractive large-breasted women who all just happen to be attracted to their commanding officer.  Is that not an anomaly.  Normandy - the beer and boobs ship!

KAT4N4 wrote...
Having more than one option would make the Normandy the gayest ship in the galaxy. It also reduces the potential of straight romance options and is a large amount of content that will go largely unused. You could also argue that Shepard is simply not a gay character. Not having a gay option is not discrimination.

BioWare has stated that Shepard is YOUR character.  So their Shepard is not gay argument has no credibility, especially in light of the f/f relationships already present in the game.

Jack doesn't have large breasts and Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect. FemShep,Tali, Ashley and Liara all have normal to slightly above average breasts.

If you want YOUR Shepard to be gay do it. RP him romancing, use your imagination. I am not protesting it to not be in ME3. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources.

[Treavor647]

KAT4N4 wrote...

Jack doesn't have large breasts and Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect. FemShep,Tali, Ashley and Liara all have normal to slightly above average breasts.

If you want YOUR Shepard to be gay do it. RP him romancing, use your imagination. I am not protesting it to not be in ME3. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources.

But the resources are already in the game.  In both Mass Effects, they had the script and voice actors do lines for m/m and f/f relationships. so its not taking away anything.

[Arik7]

KAT4N4 wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

Let me start by saying I am very liberal and support gay rights, gay marriage etc...

One of the main problems with having a gay Shepard is that the people you romance also have to be gay. In a squad of ~12 people, having at least 3 gay people (one option for girls, one for guys and of course Shepard) is a statistical anomaly. With only one romance option it would seem awfully convenient that you have a sexual attraction to the only gay squad member on the ship.

It would seem awfully convenient that a special-ops military team is filled with single attractive large-breasted women who all just happen to be attracted to their commanding officer.  Is that not an anomaly.  Normandy - the beer and boobs ship!

KAT4N4 wrote...
Having more than one option would make the Normandy the gayest ship in the galaxy. It also reduces the potential of straight romance options and is a large amount of content that will go largely unused. You could also argue that Shepard is simply not a gay character. Not having a gay option is not discrimination.

BioWare has stated that Shepard is YOUR character.  So their Shepard is not gay argument has no credibility, especially in light of the f/f relationships already present in the game.

Jack doesn't have large breasts and Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect. FemShep,Tali, Ashley and Liara all have normal to slightly above average breasts.

If you want YOUR Shepard to be gay do it. RP him romancing, use your imagination. I am not protesting it to not be in ME3. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources.

Why play Mass Effect 2 then, why not just "RP" the whole thing.  Just seat in your arm chair and imagine that you're shooting aliens and banging blue alien chicks.

Modifié par Arik7, 15 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[Sabul]

KAT4N4 wrote...


Jack doesn't have large breasts and Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect. FemShep,Tali, Ashley and Liara all have normal to slightly above average breasts.

If you want YOUR Shepard to be gay do it. RP him romancing, use your imagination. I am not protesting it to not be in ME3. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources.

You are aware in both ME and ME2 Bioware spent resources developing m/m and additional f/f romance options only to disable them shortly before release, right? Luckily for us it was left on all the disks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mwiqq-Y5r4

Everyone tries to use the resources argument. Trouble is those resources have already been used.

Modifié par Sabul, 15 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[comicfan22]

biddypocket wrote...




okay, first things first. If you want to play hardball science, don't send me NYTimes articles. Send me an APA reference with authors, title, journal, volume, issue, year, and pages.

I stopped reading after the first page when I saw that they had a sample of only 101 men. Kinsey himself had a database of qualitative interviews from over 100,000 men. So, your sample size is crap right from the start.

Without even reading the article, I can tell you that using a solely subjective measure of sexuality is HORRIBLE research methodology. If they wanted some hard, quantifiable data, they would have included some objective measurments as well (though I can't be certain as I haven't read the study). That scale they used must be pretty damn reliable (in terms of psychometrics and not common parlance) or this entire study is moot for me.

And, lastly, from the article itself:

" "The last thing you want," said Dr. Randall Sell, an assistant
professor of clinical socio-medical sciences at Columbia University,
"is for some therapists to see this study and start telling bisexual
people that they're wrong, that they're really on their way to
homosexuality."He added, "We don't know nearly enough about sexual orientation and identity" to jump to these conclusions." So, as the Columbia professor would agree, this is one tiny study with questionable research methodology facing a massive wall of research stating the opposite. As this article is published, there are likely to be many more stating the exact opposite results. That's psychology for ya.


Shizzam.

For a second I thought i was going to be written about in some sort of "real" myths book like a yeti or chupacabra

[biddypocket]

comicfan22 wrote...

For a second I thought i was going to be written about in some sort of "real" myths book like a yeti or chupacabra

.....Yetis DO EXIST. Haven't you ever seen the claymation Rudolph MOVIES?!??!!

[KAT4N4]

Sabul wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

There are far more bisexual/lesbian women than gay men. It is not just because of "pleasing men" either. From a logic stand point, women are the more attractive/beautiful gender, so it makes sense woman would be attracted to them.  I know a bunch of gay/lesbian women and all of them are not doing it to "please men", I have even heard some of their boyfriends (of the bi ones) get jealous or worried they would cheat with a girl.

In regards to your Craigslist reference: it is obvious men are far more promiscuous than woman. Think of how many people men would sleep with if women were just as willing as men.

You are aware what people find visually stimulating and "beautiful" is all subjective, right? I find my boyfriend beautiful. You would not think so as he is a man but I can assure you in my eyes there is no person male or female who could compare.

There are women who will make out with women to turn on their boyfriends. I would not consider these women bisexual but I take it you would.

I resent that statement. I have been in a long term committed relationship for a good while now. Neither of us have any desire to sleep with anyone else despite other men being "willing". Being gay is not the massive orgy most straight men seem to envision.

Beauty may be subjective, but if significantly more people find something more beautiful than something else the subjective becomes more objective. As a straight male I can easily tell you men that are more attractive than others and have no problem doing so. I think there are tons of men that are beautiful, just less so than women. Women are more graceful, elegant, "natural" etc...

What did I say to made you think that I think that attention ****s are bisexual? There are more women that are bisexual than men, that is a fact.

Tons of gay people are in committed relationships and I totally support that (remember how I am for gay rights and gay marriage). I have even written papers in college about it and argued with dozens of people on the topic. However, men are more willing to engage in sex than women are. So when both partners are men, logic would indicate that there would be a higher level of promiscuity. How would you explain that Craigslist has more Men Seeking Men, than Women seeking Women?

[SorenTrigg]

KAT4N4 wrote...

I would say you are gay, have female friends you love (but are not in love with them) and enjoy the feel of sex (who doesn't?)

So...if a woman has sex with both males and females, she is bisexual.
But if a man has sex with both males and females, he is gay. But happens to like having sex with women, because sex is so awesome that no matter who it is with, it is still great?
I...wha?

[KAT4N4]

Treavor647 wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

Jack doesn't have large breasts and Miranda is genetically engineered to be perfect. FemShep,Tali, Ashley and Liara all have normal to slightly above average breasts.

If you want YOUR Shepard to be gay do it. RP him romancing, use your imagination. I am not protesting it to not be in ME3. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources.

But the resources are already in the game.  In both Mass Effects, they had the script and voice actors do lines for m/m and f/f relationships. so its not taking away anything.

If they are in the game and were not used than there are two possible reasons for it.

1.) Creatively they felt it did not make sense or that it would distract from the rest of the game.

2.) They were avoiding controversy so they would make more money.

[SorenTrigg]

KAT4N4 wrote...

If they are in the game and were not used than there are two possible reasons for it.

1.) Creatively they felt it did not make sense or that it would distract from the rest of the game.

2.) They were avoiding controversy so they would make more money.

But, it could not have been 2. They have put gay romance into tons of games of theirs before.
And how would it distract from the rest of the game when they already *had* one f/f relationship in both games?

[biddypocket]

SorenTrigg wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

I would say you are gay, have female friends you love (but are not in love with them) and enjoy the feel of sex (who doesn't?)

So...if a woman has sex with both males and females, she is bisexual.
But if a man has sex with both males and females, he is gay. But happens to like having sex with women, because sex is so awesome that no matter who it is with, it is still great?
I...wha?

*pets* it's okay pumpkin, sometimes I don't understand straight men either

(just for the record, I do NOT enjoy sex with women....no matter how good of a friend they may be )

[KAT4N4]

SorenTrigg wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

I would say you are gay, have female friends you love (but are not in love with them) and enjoy the feel of sex (who doesn't?)

So...if a woman has sex with both males and females, she is bisexual.
But if a man has sex with both males and females, he is gay. But happens to like having sex with women, because sex is so awesome that no matter who it is with, it is still great?
I...wha?

From personal experience and from multiple studies I have read this is all I hear. Show me a study that shows otherwise. I am sure there are exceptions to this rule and am not saying bisexual men do not exist. I am just saying most of them are in denial of being gay, are confused, attention seeking or trying to help their (fat) female friend feel better.

Related topic: there are thousands of people in prison who have sex with/rape men (which is F***ed up) but are not necessarily gay.

[AnathamaDye]

SorenTrigg wrote...

KAT4N4 wrote...

If they are in the game and were not used than there are two possible reasons for it.

1.) Creatively they felt it did not make sense or that it would distract from the rest of the game.

2.) They were avoiding controversy so they would make more money.

But, it could not have been 2. They have put gay romance into tons of games of theirs before.
And how would it distract from the rest of the game when they already *had* one f/f relationship in both games?

Agree.  It is already there, they just need to reenable it.  I mean DragonAge is like one of the top RPGs on the Xbox and there is a bisexual Elf in there.  I'm sure it won't deter people from buying Mass Effect if there was a m/m romance.

[Jimmy Fury]

I'm back!
[looks through the last few pages of the thread]
Oh... goody. this debate again. I'll be short and organized in my points:
1: The Normandy SR2 has crew of about 30 people (I think? I can't be bothered to count all those generic NPCs but there's plenty of them about) so it's not just a matter of the probability of homosexuality amongst the dirty dozen.
2: Exactly 0% of earth's population is Turian, Quarian, Asari, Drell, or Krogan. Using real world statistics it's utterly impossible for you to have any alien squad members. This is why it's science fiction and not science fact.
3: Ending a sentence with "it's a fact" does not make something a fact. That requires proof. Prove that the majority of women are bisexual and then you can claim it's a fact. Until then it is speculation.
On the other hand, if you want to go by one of the most reliable studies of human sexuality, Kinsey found that 100% heterosexual and 100% homosexual are equally uncommon and that the vaaaaast majority of humans fall somewhere in between.

-edit- Blasted typos! Eh there are probably more I don't care.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 15 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[biddypocket]

KAT4N4 wrote...

From personal experience and from multiple studies I have read this is all I hear. Show me a study that shows otherwise. I am sure there are exceptions to this rule and am not saying bisexual men do not exist. I am just saying most of them are in denial of being gay, are confused, attention seeking or trying to help their (fat) female friend feel better.

Related topic: there are thousands of people in prison who have sex with/rape men (which is F***ed up) but are not necessarily gay.

Kat! NYTimes articles do NOT count as studies .

Let's just stop all this crazy talk. You're on our side, and we love you for it, regardless of whether or not you think bisexual men exist.......which is a crazy thought, still.

[KAT4N4]

biddypocket wrote...

(just for the record, I do NOT enjoy sex with women....no matter how good of a friend they may be )

I never said all gay men do this, some do, get over it. The vast majority of gay men and women have engaged in sex with people of the opposite sex though.