1769 réponses à ce sujet

[Arik7]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

Yeah, I support this, etc etc. What happened to the old thread? I don't have the attention span to read through it but last I checked it had mellowed out.

Stanley Woo said the thread has become unwieldy after 123 pages, and asked us to start a new one.  And here we are....

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

The previous thread was locked after reaching 123 pages.

SOME people have stated that Mass Effect 2 has no male/male romance option because Commander Shepard is a pre-defined character who "is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character."

However, that statement contradicts what Casey Hudson stated about Shepard back in 2007:
"Commander Shepard can be designed and created however you want, thanks to a very detailed character customization system. Between the development of your character's abilities and the customization of your equipment, vehicles and even other members of your squad, you will have a ton of opportunity to customize your game experience. Mass Effect starts with a deep character customization system, allowing you to choose Commander Shepard as you've seen him before or to create your own Commander Shepard. Your character can be male or female, and you will have an extreme level of detail in creating your character's appearance. You can choose a character class to get you started in defining your starting set of abilities, and you can even choose your back-story so that you can define what your life has been like leading up to the start of the game."
Source: www.xboxgazette.com/interview_mass_effect_en.php

Thank you Arik!
As much as I respect Dr. Ray, Casey is a lot more connected to the creation and continuation of Shepard. If I had to take one statement as gospel about the character, it would be Casey's.

@Wittand
cool sorry I just wasn't sure what you were saying lol

I'm still backing the DLC option. Just seems to be the easiest, least disruptive, and least confrontational.

edit: Oh and I don't think anyone could accuse a DLC character of being a "gay sex pack" since there isn't any explicit sex anywhere in ME.

People would say it was a "gay sex pack" anyway. Remember that whole thing with Liara's boob or something and 'cyber rape' from ME? Which of course I found hilarious.

[X 1ndulgence X]

I want my girl shepard to romance Jack, she gives off that vibe

[FKA_Servo]

People would say it was a "gay sex pack" anyway. Remember that whole thing with Liara's boob or something and 'cyber rape' from ME? Which of course I found hilarious.

This just comes back to support the idea of its been an automatic patch (at least on the xbox).  Disconnect, download, back online with the optional content.  Or, just stick it in a patch with enough content that it will drown it out.

[Dunhart]

It's a bit disappointing that even though Bioware has been the flagship of equality with it's other franchises, Mass Effect is still lagging behind. Sex with alien species is a-ok, but sex between two males is a big no no and scares the average gamer away. Arguments such as "we didn't write any of the male characters as bi/gay" and "Asari don't count as female" are becoming increasingly hard to swallow as well, considering there's a grand total of 8 romanceable characters and two of them swing both ways.

Mass Effect 2 was a great game and totally worth the money (and the week of extra waiting with the European CE mixup) but I thought I was done having to play female characters to get any emotional content from the romances, as much as I love Jennifer Hale's voice.

I oppose DLC as a rule (I mean, what's the point of spending money to get small tidbits that barely add bugger all to the storyline when you've already played the game through, ala Pinnacle Station?), but I'd totally buy it if it meant being able to have a male/male romance.

Modifié par Dunhart, 10 février 2010 - 03:51 .

[Nynaeve]

I support this thread

[biddypocket]

Dunhart wrote...

It's a bit disappointing that even though Bioware has been the flagship of equality with it's other franchises, Mass Effect is still lagging behind. Sex with alien species is a-ok, but sex between to males is a big no no and scares the average gamer away. Arguments such as "we didn't write any of the male characters as bi/gay" and "Asari don't count as female" are becoming increasingly hard to swallow as well, considering there's a grand total of 8 romanceable characters and two of them swing both ways.

Mass Effect 2 was a great game and totally worth the money (and the week of extra waiting with the European CE mixup) but I thought I was done having to play female characters to get any emotional content from the romances, as much as I love Jennifer Hale's voice.

I oppose DLC as a rule (I mean, what's the point of spending money to get small tidbits that barely add bugger all to the storyline when you've already played the game through, ala Pinnacle Station?), but I'd totally buy it if it meant being able to have a male/male romance.

I agree, and what's even more ridiculous is the fact that Ray Muzyka comes up with sh*tty excuses for why they were left out of the game. In an interview, he was asked if there would be m/m relationships in ME3 and he completely doged the issue. A 4th grader could have come up with a better explanation. It's all just a bunch of BS at this point.

Modifié par biddypocket, 10 février 2010 - 03:49 .

[Endurance_117]

Calling the CEO out will surely get him to join your cause lol

[IceSavage]

Still my take on it is. You wont get a DLC option of ME1 even with the old audio values available, why? ME1 is done. Adding it as a DLC, for that matter adding any DLC is just not worth the resources invested. New sales of more ME1 will not generate any significant revenue. That is why you will not get any thing new for ME1.



ME2 has a different issue. There is most likely no voice work for a gay option at that moment. That means you have to call in all the voice actors again, and you have to book another audio studio with all the people that are required. And that isn't exactly cheap. Don't think that they need to do this with other DLC, all that voice work has already been planned and done.



ME3 is your only hope now, but i think the devs are too set in there ways till then.

[biddypocket]

IceSavage wrote...

Still my take on it is. You wont get a DLC option of ME1 even with the old audio values available, why? ME1 is done. Adding it as a DLC, for that matter adding any DLC is just not worth the resources invested. New sales of more ME1 will not generate any significant revenue. That is why you will not get any thing new for ME1.

I don't think many people were advocating for a DLC for ME1 at this point. Hence, I would agree, it would be a waste.

ME2 has a different issue. There is most likely no voice work for a gay option at that moment. That means you have to call in all the voice actors again, and you have to book another audio studio with all the people that are required. And that isn't exactly cheap. Don't think that they need to do this with other DLC, all that voice work has already been planned and done.

ME3 is your only hope now, but i think the devs are too set in there ways till then.

That's not entirely true. I forget where, but someone posted that the voice actors had to return multiple times prior to the games release, but that doesn't necessarily mean all of the DLC content has been finished. In reality, the time/resources/money necessary to add one romance in, in comparison to adding an entire mission in a new place.

ME3 is your only hope now, but i think the devs are too set in there ways till then.

Indeed if this is our only option, we can only hope they'll listen to us. Hence why we're so vocal about it.

[Traumacrazy]

this

[Wittand25]

IceSavage wrote...

Still my take on it is. You wont get a DLC option of ME1 even with the old audio values available, why? ME1 is done. Adding it as a DLC, for that matter adding any DLC is just not worth the resources invested. New sales of more ME1 will not generate any significant revenue. That is why you will not get any thing new for ME1.

ME2 has a different issue. There is most likely no voice work for a gay option at that moment. That means you have to call in all the voice actors again, and you have to book another audio studio with all the people that are required. And that isn't exactly cheap. Don't think that they need to do this with other DLC, all that voice work has already been planned and done.

ME3 is your only hope now, but i think the devs are too set in there ways till then.

We all know that.
ME1 only gets metioned in the hope that after ME3 Bioware will release a directorscut trilogy version that has the samesex option enabled.
ME2 well there is a slim hope, it is likely that nothing will happen, but we can still dream about it happening can´t we ?
ME3 is the only real hope and the reason for not letting this kind of thread die to show that we want to have the option in ME3.

[Nautica773]

biddypocket wrote...
I agree, and what's even more ridiculous is the fact that Ray Muzyka comes up with sh*tty excuses for why they were left out of the game. In an interview, he was asked if there would be m/m relationships in ME3 and he completely dodged the issue. A 4th grader could have come up with a better explanation. It's all just a bunch of BS at this point.

What did you want him to do? Chew out the team for not completing the romance in time? Tell the media that it wasn't finished because it was a low priority?

To be honest, I can see Dr. Muzyka's response being rather fair. Developers rarely tell the media about things that were cut in during development. You may have some of the developers explain the situation on their boards, but they're not going to hurry out to advertisers and the like and give the impression that the product was rushed or incomplete. And let's face it, that's how the media would often spin the situation.

So Dr. Muzyka dodged the question while supporting the decisions of his team. Since he didn't directly work on it, if he wanted he could have just said they didn't get it done in time. He gave an answer that would likely satisfy the press while leaving his developers free to take the game in whatever direction they wanted.

Monstrion wrote...

Arent you supposed to be like 4%?

No seriously, I wouldnt mind them, its your problem where you want to stick it. But I totally hate the idea of gay Joker, Thane ... 
So if you make those, either make it a DLC or add a switch in options where you actually switch between real-4%-world and 100%-bi-world.

What do you mean by "you"?

If you include bisexuality in that little figure you now have a range in population from 10-50% depending on the source. 

And no toggles. First, it's annoying to BioWare for everyone wanting a toggle for everything. It's their game, if they're going to include content, they're going to include content. It's your prerogative to explore or avoid the content at your desire but it is still their vision and product. 

Modifié par Nautica773, 10 février 2010 - 04:34 .

[biddypocket]

Nautica773 wrote...

biddypocket wrote...
I agree, and what's even more ridiculous is the fact that Ray Muzyka comes up with sh*tty excuses for why they were left out of the game. In an interview, he was asked if there would be m/m relationships in ME3 and he completely dodged the issue. A 4th grader could have come up with a better explanation. It's all just a bunch of BS at this point.

So Dr. Muzyka dodged the question while supporting the decisions of his team. Since he didn't directly work on it, if he wanted he could have just said they didn't get it done in time. He gave an answer that would likely satisfy the press while leaving his developers free to take the game in whatever direction they wanted.

....While leaving the fans angry, which is what he did. Anyone with a brain can tell you that his response was simply a way to dodge and issue that he really has no answer for. I'm not going go into all the reasons, because there's many, but if they don't want to be forward with us than so be it. Regardless of whether or not he himself worked on the game, he is the voice of the company, and so we continue to ask for answers. We wont stop until we get some. *shrug* as a consumer who purchased their product, I'm totally within my rights to do so.

[Nautica773]

biddypocket wrote...
....While leaving the fans angry, which is what he did. Anyone with a brain can tell you that his response was simply a way to dodge and issue that he really has no answer for. I'm not going go into all the reasons, because there's many, but if they don't want to be forward with us than so be it. Regardless of whether or not he himself worked on the game, he is the voice of the company, and so we continue to ask for answers. We wont stop until we get some. *shrug* as a consumer who purchased their product, I'm totally within my rights to do so.

I think fans just like being angry in general. Have you seen the rage over less nekkid sex scenes? Or the inclusion of ammo? Or their paper thin plot? (yes, even I rage too)

I'm not sure what you want from them? We know they planned to include it, we know the company has a track-record for inclusion and we know it didn't make it into the final cut of the game. That sounds like something rather dull and predictable like running out of development time, difficult bugs or even disk space are the likely culprits and not some sort of imagined fear of a foreign trashy news station or imaginary pressure from a parent company. 

It could be very well that Dr. Muzyka didn't know why it wasn't included in the game. He may not have even know if it was planned to be in the game. There are too many possible scenarios to be frustrated over it. In the end, it's a meaningless quote that neither boosts or decreases the possibility of a gay romance in 3. I see his statement as a way of him supporting his team, something I wish more bosses did for their workers.

But if you really want to know, why not try emailing BioWare yourself? Maybe see if you can't get ahold of a lead writer or someone and see what they say. Likely nothing, but sometimes BioWare employees will give glimpse of the development process.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Actually he only left the gay fans angry. Which is less than 5% of the playerbase. 90% of people just couldn't care less and the other 5% are split between straight people who are for or against so...just give up the goat.
We've been over all the arguments, both contructive and downright trolling, over at least 250 pages now. It's impossible for Bioware not to have looked at it so I'm sure they're aware of the situation. So just give it a rest?
The answer you've been given is pretty definitive. He contrasts ME to DA, meaning that what they did in DA, they won't do in ME. The fact that it was a veiled answer for press reasons doesn't actually mean anything. This supported by the fact that they have decided against including it twice already amounts to pretty strong evidence and probability that it just wont appear in ME3. It's the final installment, relationships/plot/romances, all those have been built over 2 games and will be closed.

You aren't going to get them to give you a straight answer, it just isn't done.

EDIT: Sorry but lol at the 50% of people are Bi figure...that's just funny man. Where do you people get these percentages? The Onion?

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 10 février 2010 - 04:54 .

[Nautica773]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Actually he only left the gay fans angry. Which is less than 5% of the playerbase. 90% of people just couldn't care less and the other 5% are split between straight people who are for or against so...just give up the goat.
We've been over all the arguments, both contructive and downright trolling, over at least 250 pages now. It's impossible for Bioware not to have looked at it so I'm sure they're aware of the situation. So just give it a rest?
The answer you've been given is pretty definitive. He contrasts ME to DA, meaning that what they did in DA, they won't do in ME. The fact that it was a veiled answer for press reasons doesn't actually mean anything. This supported by the fact that they have decided against including it twice already amounts to pretty strong evidence and probability that it just wont appear in ME3. It's the final installment, relationships/plot/romances, all those have been built over 2 games and will be closed.

I think it's more telling that they tried to get it into the first two games. That's quite the effort on BioWare's part. It demonstrates a pretty strong desire for the content to be in the game. If the majority of the third game's cast are new faces, I'd say there's still that slim possibility of a gay romance. 

If it's all returning characters, I find it highly unlikely though.

You aren't going to get them to give you a straight answer, it just isn't done.

Agreed. Developers don't like discussing the failings. They also don't like being told they're discriminating, being controlled by ludicrous media networks, other companies or that they're self censoring to please an uncaring fanbase.

EDIT: Sorry but lol at the 50% of people are Bi figure...that's just funny man. Where do you people get these percentages? The Onion?

I can't remember most of the sources, it's been a couple of years since I took a psychology class. I believe the Kinsey report found approximately 50% of males and 47% of females engaged in sexual activity with members of both sexes over the course of their lives. The immediate rebuttal is that sexual identification is more complex than behaviour, but a simple definition of bisexuality as engagement into behaviour with both sexes would qualify 50% of the population.

Crude and inaccurate, but sexuality is a complex thing and the normative ideal of heterodoxy is more an illusion than anything else.

[FKA_Servo]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Actually he only left the gay fans angry. Which is less than 5% of the playerbase. 90% of people just couldn't care less and the other 5% are split between straight people who are for or against

Kay.  Where do you get your statistics?  I'm guessing from the same place.

This is a request for optional content that no one needs to see if they don't want to.  A lot of people think the lack of it is unusual, given the precedent for it and statements from the developers.  And, as a lot of people have noted, the support for it is greater than the opposition, based solely on the threads so far.  The ones against it are a small handful of loud idiots like Redshift, who's been doing this since the old forum.  Otherwise, it's support all the way.

If you neither support nor oppose it, there's really no point in posting here though.  Thanks for the bump, all the same.

[DigitalAnthrax]

It won't happen for ME2, that's for sure, though MAYBE for any newer DLC characters (Kasumi anyone?) but the people saying that Bioware is ignorant obviously never played Dragon Age. All you people can hope for is that ME3 comes with those options.

[comicfan22]

Btw, this is an article that i found quite interesting:


http://www.theglobea...article1387692/

While it praises Mass Effect for its F/F relationship it doesn't mention the fact that Gay or bi males have got no romance options available to us. It does however highlight some of the bigotry we have to deal with.We in the GLBT community tend to be left out of a lot in the gaming community in general.  All I'm, asking for is for there to be a romance option for us. As others have stated, it shouldnt be forced upon a player but it should be an option.

[jeffindenver]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Actually he only left the gay fans angry. Which is less than 5% of the playerbase. 90% of people just couldn't care less and the other 5% are split between straight people who are for or against so...just give up the goat....

Translation: You are insignificant, so give up.

[Jimmy Fury]

prerecording all the voice acting for all of the DLC seems a little unlikely. Not only did meer already say he'd been called back in to voice some DLC, but what if something gets added or scrapped during development 9 months from now?
I seem to recall reading that we were going to get a "good amount" of DLC over the next couple of years (the same way DAO promised two years worth) thanks to the new seperate-dev-team-system.
It seems highly highly unlikely that they would record all the VA work before they even started working on the DLC itself.

But, that one poster (sorry don't remember who) had a good point about the expenses needed to get all the various VA's back in the studio for 2 or 3 lines of dialogue. Even if it's in their contracts to come back, BioWare still has to front the money for the studios and for that little bit of work it's not cost efficient.

So... yeah I still don't see a patch being a cheap quick fix.

[Nautica773]

comicfan22 wrote...

Btw, this is an article that i found quite interesting:


http://www.theglobea...article1387692/

While it praises Mass Effect for its F/F relationship it doesn't mention the fact that Gay or bi males have got no romance options available to us. It does however highlight some of the bigotry we have to deal with.We in the GLBT community tend to be left out of a lot in the gaming community in general.  All I'm, asking for is for there to be a romance option for us. As others have stated, it shouldnt be forced upon a player but it should be an option.

I don't know how well Dragon Age avoids stereotypes. Both bisexual characters have personalities and histories of sleeping with just about anything that moves on two legs. 

[comicfan22]

Nautica773 wrote...

I don't know how well Dragon Age avoids stereotypes. Both bisexual characters have personalities and histories of sleeping with just about anything that moves on two legs. 

True enough. I think, that's why I like ME more though, I have a hope that in some tiny way a non-stereotypical either bi or gay romance will eventually be integrated.

[Nautica773]

comicfan22 wrote...
True enough. I think, that's why I like ME more though, I have a hope that in some tiny way a non-stereotypical either bi or gay romance will eventually be integrated.

I'm sure it'll come up eventually. I can forgive the stereotyping in DAO for a number of reasons. I think they were trying to make the character's sexuality "make sense" so they had it play a very prominent role in their history and character. Juhani is really the first gay character, and I can see BioWare doing more in the future too, whenever the opportunity arises. 

At any rate, I'll take the DAO stereotypes over nothing any day.

Also, as a somewhat unrelated comment on romances in general, I'd really like to see a 'mature' romance in the game. Not that it has to be a romance with someone that's old but just someone that's grown up. Miranda had the insecurities of a young adult. Tali is a young adult and Jack was... well... Jack.

But mostly I'm upset that Samara broke my heart.