218 réponses à ce sujet

[MaxQuartiroli]

Wishpig wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

I have to agree with the earlier sentiment. If the expansion and sequels for Bioware properties continually start sidelining characters from the original game, they just need to stop planning on franchises or trilogies. Reading between this and the ME forums, people are worrying themselves to death that Bioware is content on lobbing new squads out with every game.

With each new game companions get deeper, they can evolve, they can go down diffrent paths, meet diffrent fates, and are generally more and more real.

Because of this they get more and more difficult to carry into sequals and expansions. They can branch into so many diffrent directions that the devs just can't carry them over and do them justice or in the case of characters that die... make all the effort worth it.

Everyone uses BG series as an example, but it's a terrible terrible example. Most of the characters really couldn't evolve or go in anyother direction. They were there and they had their set personalites. They didn't evolve and their fates were set. In truth they had allot of problems people claim Oghren has... thus they were easy to carry over. And the few characters who could "evolve" like Anomen (or whatever his name was) really didn't stick to that path in their dialog... it was flawed.

The bottom line is you can't have your cake and eat it too. Many have fallen in love with Leliana because you can truly guide her personality and ultimate fate... and like I said the more her story branches out the harder it is to keep them all in check. Sadly thats just how it is.

What are you saying is right.. I accepted the fact that continue with some characters may be very difficult.... But I believe that people (most of people) will be happy just to see beloved characters into 1/2 scenes where they see they are again in love with them.. even if they will not be playable... This is not so difficult to do if they want... after that you will be free to decide if continue your "platonic" romance, and see your character at the end of the game coming back o his/her love or cheat (but this is your free choice). Do you believe is so difficult to add just a short clip at the end of the game where you see you character going back to Lel/Zev/Ali whoever you wants?

Many people asks just this.... If i will see something like this I will be happy... it would be enough to me... But.. damn..if they decide to end all in a tragic way... my question   should be.. "Why??? Was it really necessary???"

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 12 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[SinYang]

Wishpig wrote...
Resorting to personal attacks now eh? How cute.

I suffer from the common and o' so lovely "timed out accessing online profile" bug. Look it up.

Never fully beat BG (couldn't go from BG2 to BG) and never played sword coast but I beat BG2 and ToB at least 4 times. And i've played every bioware game sense. Watch me drop facts like rhymes...

The romance with the half-elf harper is bugged to hell often getting stuck halfway through, happened to me.

Korgan = best character ever. He drops Ozzy Osborn refrences in his dialogs with minsc.

ToB's main villian is as predictible as the ending to titanic.

Hope that clears me from all charges judge.

I dont consider that a personal attack, its merely pointing out a fact. Timed outs can simply be solved by  constantly relogging (You will know when its successful by screenshots on a profile reading X amount rather than -1 / -1).

Anyway this is derailing the thread, which isnt nothing to do about Oghren or bugs.

[Bann Duncan]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

@worksa8 Last week I wrote in a thread... "Now I have finished to play DAO I feel forced to travel all the world until I will found a girl like Leliana"

Well.. my girlfriend was not so happy to read this...  0_o

I like how you subtly try to mention you have a girlfriend so that you sound slightly less desperate for being in love with a virtual character.

This post is pure win.

[Ahisgewaya]

I've said this before and I will now say it again.

If Lelianna is in Dragon Age Awakening as a party member then I will send her alone to face a dragon or many abominations or something just so I can WATCH HER DIE AGAIN AND AGAIN.

FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Bann Duncan wrote...

MEUTRIERE wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

@worksa8 Last week I wrote in a thread... "Now I have finished to play DAO I feel forced to travel all the world until I will found a girl like Leliana"

Well.. my girlfriend was not so happy to read this...  0_o

I like how you subtly try to mention you have a girlfriend so that you sound slightly less desperate for being in love with a virtual character.

This post is pure win.

You should read my answer... it was a better win.

[Ahisgewaya]

And Wishpig, I wanted you to know that I find Oghren hilarious ( and I also loved Baldur's Gate 2, almost but not quite as much as Torment). But the best thing about him is he's a warrior, so if you don't like him he's easily replaced. Not so with Lelianna, only one of two rogues and the other one is an evil assassin who hates it when you save a puppy.

By the way, Max, if you yourself say that your own post is full of win, that's usually a good indication that it's not.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 12 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

uh? i can't speak english so well... win = victory? or not?

BTW.. it doesn't really matters too much.. I registered here just to talk, share my opinion about a game I loved, and act as a full-involved RPG player.. not to answer to people who attacked me without knowing nothing about me..

BTW 2.. My life goes on anyway...

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I've said this before and I will now say it again.
If Lelianna is in Dragon Age Awakening as a party member then I will send her alone to face a dragon or many abominations or something just so I can WATCH HER DIE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

Do you even know the meaning of the words you are spewing... for cyring out loud Leliana is the farthest thing from a puritan or any such fundamentalist, she only has some materialistic desire that is normal in a human being, and she really isn't that racist considering she can fall in love with elves or dwarves... as for shallow, that alone basically proves that you either did not talk to her or have not played the game and paid one whit of attention to what was going on.

[Hugmejohnny]

Kabraxal wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I've said this before and I will now say it again.
If Lelianna is in Dragon Age Awakening as a party member then I will send her alone to face a dragon or many abominations or something just so I can WATCH HER DIE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

Do you even know the meaning of the words you are spewing... for cyring out loud Leliana is the farthest thing from a puritan or any such fundamentalist, she only has some materialistic desire that is normal in a human being, and she really isn't that racist considering she can fall in love with elves or dwarves... as for shallow, that alone basically proves that you either did not talk to her or have not played the game and paid one whit of attention to what was going on.

Hehe, it's not nice when someone rips on a character you like is it? Not saying you excatly but I guantee allot of people who bash Oghren would throw a hissy fit if Leliana was mocked.

Modifié par Hugmejohnny, 12 février 2010 - 05:24 .

[Kabraxal]

Hugmejohnny wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I've said this before and I will now say it again.
If Lelianna is in Dragon Age Awakening as a party member then I will send her alone to face a dragon or many abominations or something just so I can WATCH HER DIE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

Do you even know the meaning of the words you are spewing... for cyring out loud Leliana is the farthest thing from a puritan or any such fundamentalist, she only has some materialistic desire that is normal in a human being, and she really isn't that racist considering she can fall in love with elves or dwarves... as for shallow, that alone basically proves that you either did not talk to her or have not played the game and paid one whit of attention to what was going on.

Hehe, it's not nice when someone rips on a character you like is it? Not saying you excatly but I guantee allot of people who bash Oghren would throw a hissy fit if Leliana was mocked.

I don't bash any of the DA characters, so I guess I'm entitled to passionately defend my favourites... however, if this guy had made stupid comments about Oghren being a sober stick in the mud I would have been just as incredulous.  First, know the definitions of words used (the puritan line was a definite WTF) and second, at least hit on actual "flaws" or foibles of a character.  Bashing a character for what they are is understand-able, but bashing a character because of a serious misconception or ignorance is just pathetic.

By the way, I don't hate Oghren...granted I would much prefer Alistair, Leliana, or Zevran as my companion in Awakenings, but Oghren was decent enough... he named his child after me for crying out loud.  How can I hate him after that?!?

[Rafaelan]

dark-lauron wrote...

Gaider mentioned in the past they cannot afford to make all companions come back. We must accept that we'll potentially get disappointed. Which means, it could not be Oghren. And besides, this is a Leliana thread, is it not?

Yeah but that was sort of a bs comment, because the epilogues pretty clearly thinned out the possible companions who could or would want to return anyway...and it also left ambiguity on a few of the others to make it seem highly PLAUSIBLE (as in not cheesy death scene) why they would not return as a companion.

So for him to say they cannot afford to make all companions come back is accurate, and I certainly can understand why that would be so...However to have 2-3 come back would certainly seem doable and REASONABLE...and quite frankly there are only a small few who are even possible....namely Leliana (the most obvious), Zevran, Alistair (looks like his return is a cameo) and Oghren....I guess, though nowhere does it state that he accompanies the companion, and there is only ONE potential epilogue where he stays as a general in Fereldan army, which would lead me to believe he may be there as as a cameo NPC or as a temporary companion.

Modifié par Rafaelan, 12 février 2010 - 06:37 .

[Hugmejohnny]

Kabraxal wrote...

Hugmejohnny wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I've said this before and I will now say it again.
If Lelianna is in Dragon Age Awakening as a party member then I will send her alone to face a dragon or many abominations or something just so I can WATCH HER DIE AGAIN AND AGAIN.
FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

Do you even know the meaning of the words you are spewing... for cyring out loud Leliana is the farthest thing from a puritan or any such fundamentalist, she only has some materialistic desire that is normal in a human being, and she really isn't that racist considering she can fall in love with elves or dwarves... as for shallow, that alone basically proves that you either did not talk to her or have not played the game and paid one whit of attention to what was going on.

Hehe, it's not nice when someone rips on a character you like is it? Not saying you excatly but I guantee allot of people who bash Oghren would throw a hissy fit if Leliana was mocked.

I don't bash any of the DA characters, so I guess I'm entitled to passionately defend my favourites... however, if this guy had made stupid comments about Oghren being a sober stick in the mud I would have been just as incredulous.  First, know the definitions of words used (the puritan line was a definite WTF) and second, at least hit on actual "flaws" or foibles of a character.  Bashing a character for what they are is understand-able, but bashing a character because of a serious misconception or ignorance is just pathetic.

By the way, I don't hate Oghren...granted I would much prefer Alistair, Leliana, or Zevran as my companion in Awakenings, but Oghren was decent enough... he named his child after me for crying out loud.  How can I hate him after that?!?

Thats why I said not you, I'm just pointing out how it's almost funny how all characters have haters and people who defend them. And you know allot of people who bash Oghren would be offended if someone mocked their favorite character. Thats just the way people work.

Once agian, I'm sorry I didn't make it clear enough , not refering to you just something your post got me thinkin about.

[KumoriOokami]

I'm of two minds about this... I'd really like to see Leliana back in the expansion because she's my favorite ^^.... However if she's not back I would have less reason to buy the expansion and could thusly save some money. ^^...

[Kabraxal]

KumoriOokami wrote...

I'm of two minds about this... I'd really like to see Leliana back in the expansion because she's my favorite ^^.... However if she's not back I would have less reason to buy the expansion and could thusly save some money. ^^...

Pfft.  Money - Leliana loving... Lelian loving - money.  Who are we kidding?  Leliana loving all the way!

[Maria Caliban]

Ahisgewaya wrote...
FOr the love of all that is holy don't put that shallow, racist, materialist, puritanical **** back in the game, Bioware.

Yes. If only she could embrace your non-judgmental attitudes.

[Randomname1212]

Leliana should be back, she is crazy but shes good.


And you know what they say about crazy girls.

Modifié par Randomname1212, 12 février 2010 - 10:56 .

[Ahisgewaya]

I spoke to her quite a bit. I can't stand her but her rogue skills are usefull and I like to keep party members happy. She is in your party because she thinks god told her to be.
The thing she misses most about Orlay is shoes. Not practical shoes mind you, the frivolous ones. That's materialistic. Her priorities are in the wrong place.
She claims to be about acceptance and love, but have you ever even talked to her as an elf?
She says that elves in Orlay are better off being servants (slaves) and some are treated like pampered pets. This is after a codex entry states quite clearly that elves in Orlay are sometimes packed together in very tiny rooms like livestock. This marks her as very racist. Finally, she pitches a fit anytime I say something bad about the damn chantry, which is puritanical. (By which I mean the chantry is puritanical and so is Leliana, who is an avid follower of said chantry.) I hate hypocracy, and Leliana has this in spades. Did you take her to the village of Haven and have a chat with the spirit guarding the ashes of Andraste? He has some interesting things to say about Leliana. (That she made up her whole vision thing subconciously in order to get attention)

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 13 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[Maria Caliban]

Randomname1212 wrote...

Leliana should be back, she is crazy but shes good.


And you know what they say about crazy girls.

They'll slit your throat while you sleep so they can steal your eyelashes?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 février 2010 - 12:46 .

[Ahisgewaya]

And I never once claimed to be non judgemental. People like Leliana are what is wrong with the world.

And saying "oh we're not judgemental like you!" is a pile of crap. You all bash Oghren quite a bit on these forums (and by you all I mean the Leliana sheep). I never voted in your who to hurt who to kill rediculousness, and I would imagine many others who play the game also didn't. A forum poll does not mean most people who play Dragon Age Origins love Leliana. I've seen polls that say all Americans love George W. Bush.

[Allison W]

Leliana is naive and uninformed about a lot of things, but entirely redeemable (and I chose to do so). And yes, I'm playing an elf.

Modifié par Allison W, 13 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[Curlain]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I spoke to her quite a bit. I can't stand her but her rogue skills are usefull and I like to keep party members happy. She is in your party because she thinks god told her to be.
The thing she misses most about Orlay is shoes. Not practical shoes mind you, the frivolous ones. That's materialistic. Her priorities are in the wrong place.
She claims to be about acceptance and love, but have you ever even talked to her as an elf?
She says that elves in Orlay are better off being servants (slaves) and some are treated like pampered pets. This is after a codex entry states quite clearly that elves in Orlay are sometimes packed together in very tiny rooms like livestock. This marks her as very racist. Finally, she pitches a fit anytime I say something bad about the damn chantry, which is puritanical. (By which I mean the chantry is puritanical and so is Leliana, who is an avid follower of said chantry.) I hate hypocracy, and Leliana has this in spades. Did you take her to the village of Haven and have a chat with the spirit guarding the ashes of Andraste? He has some interesting things to say about Leliana. (That she made up her whole vision thing subconciously in order to get attention)

Well concerning the elven thing, she just hasn't really thought much about it till that point (I assume she really hadn't really known any elves before an elven Warden, where this convo comes up, on a personal basis).  The views she gives are the views allot of humans probably have, it's not something she's really ever thought much about an are the kind of mild prejudices we can have over certain things where we haven't encountered people in those groups or situations or given any real thought to the issues.  This is particularly the case where such views are the accepted norm, and to her credit once an elven Warden says how offensive this is to them, she realizes that it is a prejudiced attitude now she actually thinks about it, and changes her mind.

It's really a human thing, and she changes it once she gets to actually know a elf and see it from their perspective, and as for the Chantry stuff, I never found her really pushing her views or puritanical at all, she had her beliefs and they guided her, but she never forced them at all.  As for the Guardain, he is framing a question, not stating it as absolute fact, and it's something she refutes herself in that scene, so I guess that up to how you interpret it.

Anyhow I never really considered her racist at all, just someone who hadn't really thought through a wide-spread prejudice until that point (my first city elf romanced her, and definitely wouldn't have done so if she had been an elf-hater/racist)

Modifié par Curlain, 13 février 2010 - 12:58 .

[Pocketgb]

I really did not like her at first, choosing to stick with Morrigan. But as my quest grew on, I in turn grew more and more attached to her. I then realized that I was with Morrigan just because I thought she was the "best" option at that point, and found out that Leliana is zounds above her in terms of character and what my character was looking for in terms of companionship.



It will be a *real* kick in the quads if even after all the "I want to stay and adventure with you 'til our lives end" talk to depart from her. If we can't get her in our party, I'll be forced to put my main's adventures on hold as I play as an Orlesian - which I really don't want, honestly.



/crossfingers

[Ahisgewaya]

Curlain wrote...

Well concerning the elven thing, she just hasn't really thought much about it till that point (I assume she really hadn't really known any elves before an elven Warden, where this convo comes up, on a personal basis).  The views she gives are the views allot of humans probably have, it's not something she's really ever thought much about an are the kind of mild prejudices we can have over certain things where we haven't encountered people in those groups or situations or given any real thought to the issues.  This is particularly the case where such views are the accepted norm, and to her credit once an elven Warden says how offensive this is to them, she realizes that it is a prejudiced attitude now she actually thinks about it, and changes her mind.

It's really a human thing, and she changes it once she gets to actually know a elf and see it from their perspective, and as for the Chantry stuff, I never found her really pushing her views or puritanical at all, she had her beliefs and they guided her, but she never forced them at all.  As for the Guardain, he is framing a question, not stating it as absolute fact, and it's something she refutes herself in that scene, so I guess that up to how you interpret it.

Anyhow I never really considered her racist at all, just someone who hadn't really thought through a wide-spread prejudice until that point (my first city elf romanced her, and definitely wouldn't have done so if she had been an elf-hater/racist)

Hmm. well I honestly can't say anything about how she is after that conversation, as I kicked her out of my party immediately afterward. If she really can be reformed maybe I was to hasty in booting her out. I can't stand how she is at the beginning though.

[Hugmejohnny]

Pocketgb wrote...

I really did not like her at first, choosing to stick with Morrigan. But as my quest grew on, I in turn grew more and more attached to her. I then realized that I was with Morrigan just because I thought she was the "best" option at that point, and found out that Leliana is zounds above her in terms of character and what my character was looking for in terms of companionship.

It will be a *real* kick in the quads if even after all the "I want to stay and adventure with you 'til our lives end" talk to depart from her. If we can't get her in our party, I'll be forced to put my main's adventures on hold as I play as an Orlesian - which I really don't want, honestly.

/crossfingers

Well if bioware has a good reason for the two of you splitting up would you play? I mean, lets face it, sometimes fate b**** slaps you. So if it made sense story wise would you suck it up?

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

I spoke to her quite a bit. I can't stand her but her rogue skills are usefull and I like to keep party members happy. She is in your party because she thinks god told her to be.
The thing she misses most about Orlay is shoes. Not practical shoes mind you, the frivolous ones. That's materialistic. Her priorities are in the wrong place.
She claims to be about acceptance and love, but have you ever even talked to her as an elf?
She says that elves in Orlay are better off being servants (slaves) and some are treated like pampered pets. This is after a codex entry states quite clearly that elves in Orlay are sometimes packed together in very tiny rooms like livestock. This marks her as very racist. Finally, she pitches a fit anytime I say something bad about the damn chantry, which is puritanical. (By which I mean the chantry is puritanical and so is Leliana, who is an avid follower of said chantry.) I hate hypocracy, and Leliana has this in spades. Did you take her to the village of Haven and have a chat with the spirit guarding the ashes of Andraste? He has some interesting things to say about Leliana. (That she made up her whole vision thing subconciously in order to get attention)

She likes shoes, but she can live without in times of need.  She is not obsessed with material wealth... hmm, thus she is not materialistic in the sense that it runs her life.  Really, everyone has some form of materialistic desire, so being materialistic just because of that one thing isn't saying anything.   Everyone has that attitude.  The point fails.

As for the elf talk: she shows a bit of bias, however if she were truly racist she would not love an elf or dwarf.  Also, if you actually paid any amount of attention, you would have noticed that she was shocked and dismayed at that revelation tha she showed any tinge of racist tendencies.  Again, the point fails.

The puritanical comment: puritans are a subsect of fundamental christainity that abstain from the pleasure of life they consider sins... drink, sex, anything that remotely resembles the seven deadly sins.  Seeing as how Leliana is not averse to drink, willing and open in her sexual drive... really learn what a puritan was before you open your mouth and plant your foot firmly.

What you are talking about is fundamentalism... but surprise!  You are still wrong.  Leliana is open to the idea that the religions of each culture are merely the Maker revealing himself to his children in a different way.  She also does not force her beliefs on to any character at any point in the story.  She willingly protects her own beliefs when she feels that something is not right (defiling the ashes), but that is just being true to your belief.  Also, the comments by the Guardian... it does not actually state anything, it merely forces Leliana to confront her own doubts.  Does she truly believe she is better?  Is the Maker really speaking to her?  If you had actually paid attention, you would have realised that the Guardian had asked probing questions of all teammates if they allowed it... Leliana was no different.  Point fails.

Really, pay more attention instead of coming at the character with a blatantly closed mind.  Otherwise you will simply continue what you have done here an spout nonsense about the character or terms you seemingly don't understand.