218 réponses à ce sujet

[Pocketgb]

Hugmejohnny wrote...

Well if bioware has a good reason for the two of you splitting up would you play? I mean, lets face it, sometimes fate b**** slaps you. So if it made sense story wise would you suck it up?

Like I said, I would play it, but not as my Origins character. I'd play as a new character with the Orlesian origin.

If she's a cameo, I guess it would have to depend *on* the cameo to determine if I played with my original character. That's where my motto comes in: wait and see.

[Maria Caliban]

Not only does Leliana have several heretical beliefs, but the Chantry itself has no problem with carnal indulgences. Sex, dancing, alcohol, and rich foods are fine as long as they don't disturb the public peace.

[Ahisgewaya]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Not only does Leliana have several heretical beliefs, but the Chantry itself has no problem with carnal indulgences. Sex, dancing, alcohol, and rich foods are fine as long as they don't disturb the public peace.

Unless you do those things while having more than one god. THen you have to die, according to the Chantry. And Leliana is a follower of the chantry. SHe's a sister of the Chantry. WHich means she has at least stated acceptance of what the Chantry teaches. If you align yourself with such tyranny then I really don't care if you later tell me that you don't agree with everything it does. You're still aiding those who are the problem.

And Kabraxal, I know what puritanical means in the literal sense, as in "like a Puritan". And a Puritan to me is someone who burns people because they think they are a witch (the chantry does this to mages) and threatens to kill those who don't beleive what they do. Oh, and takes land from Native Americans. (The chantry does this to elves.)

I am not here to show you what a good debater I am. I frankly don't care if you think you can state a better arguement. Good for you. 

I am simply trying to inform Bioware that there are people who play this game who don't like Leliana, and that I am one of them. Hopefully they will listen and try to make her not as bracing if they include her in the expansion (hopefully they won't include her though).

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 13 février 2010 - 02:42 .

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Not only does Leliana have several heretical beliefs, but the Chantry itself has no problem with carnal indulgences. Sex, dancing, alcohol, and rich foods are fine as long as they don't disturb the public peace.

Unless you do those things while having more than one god. THen you have to die, according to the Chantry. And Leliana is a follower of the chantry. SHe's a sister of the Chantry. WHich means she has at least stated acceptance of what the Chantry teaches. If you align yourself with such tyranny then I really don't care if you later tell me that you don't agree with everything it does. You're still aiding those who are the problem.

And I know what puritanical means in the literal sense, as in "like a Puritan". And a Puritan to me is someone who burns people because they think they are a witch (the chantry does this to mages) and threatens to kill those who don't beleive what they do. Oh, and takes land from Native Americans. (The chantry does this to elves.)

I am not here to show you what a good debater I am. I frankly don't care if you think you can state a better arguement. Good for you. 

I am simply trying to inform Bioware that there are people who play this game who don't like Leliana, and that I am one of them. Hopefully they will listen and try to make her not as bracing if they include her in the expansion (hopefully they won't include her though).

Then at least give a list of reasons that isn't blatantly false.  It isn't that you hate her, it is the fact that all your supposed reasons have been proven wrong by in game evidence alone.  Really, hate her all you want but don't try to pass off that crock as truth.

[Ahisgewaya]

I don't need to givee you any reasons whatsoever why I don't like her.

And you have yet to show me that these reasons are false. SHe made a racist statement, this makes her racist. She laments not having pretty shoes, this makes her materialistic according to my own worldview.

Truth can be different to different people.

If I said fundamentalist, as you seem to think I should, that would bring up the question of what sort of fundamentalist I was referring to. Anyone who wishes to get back to what they consider the fundamentals of their particular belief system would qualify as a fundamentalist according to the logic you stated. (hmm looks like someone other than me doesn't know the meaning of words they use, huh?)

[Kabraxal]

Then hate her. But the moment you listed false reasons is the moment you opened yourself up to debate.

Materialism, in the sense that you are truly talking about, is an incessant compulsion towards material wealth. Leliana might have some desire for or us material things, LIKE ALL PEOPLE (so you are even slamming yourself with this pathetic reason), but she has clearly shown that she can leave it behind for something that clearly is not material in nature (ie spirituality). Your reason is false.

She is not a fundamentalist or a Puritan: she has clearly demonstrated tolerance and the willingess to accept that all religions are all facets of the same being or truth. She does not agree with killing or enslaving anyone because of thier beliefs... hell, she approves of charitable actions even to what the Chantry labels Maleficar. She holds belief in the Maker, but she does not force anyone else to hold to that belief nor doe she condemn anyone's soul to hell/oblivion for it either. Thus your reason is false again.

As for racism: she made a comment that borders on racism and might be contsrued as racism. As soon as it is pointed out, she is shocked, dismayed, and vows to study her attitude so she may change it. Yes, that is so clearly the racism that willingly and continually commits those acts or thoughts despite being shown that those ways might be or are racist. Again your reason is false.

Yeah... still haven't seen a good reason for the hate. Just so you hate her and move on. Listing these bad "reasons" isn't helping your cause.

Modifié par Kabraxal, 13 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

Leliana might have some desire for or us material things, LIKE ALL PEOPLE (so you are even slamming yourself with this pathetic reason)

My my, how well you know me for someone I've never met. Oh, wait, no you don't.
These are the sort of value judgement I expect from Leliana, so I'm not at all surprised you like her so much.
She can be shocked when you tell her she's racist all that she wants. It doesn't chnge the fact that she just said something incredibly racist. ANd if you don't think what she said is incredibly racist, well, then I really don't care what you have to say about the matter. You might want to see if you yourself don't have the same problem she does.

[Alexor Destroyer of Worlds]

I certainly hope that they don't just scrap all the party members. It would be cool if we could keep the ones our characters liked (most used ones, ones with high approval). Origins had really strong characters and I hope they aren't just thrown out.

[Ahisgewaya]

Alexor Destroyer of Worlds wrote...

I certainly hope that they don't just scrap all the party members. It would be cool if we could keep the ones our characters liked (most used ones, ones with high approval). Origins had really strong characters and I hope they aren't just thrown out.

This is what I myself would greatly prefer. ( That is, keep them or not based on our decisions in game). That way if we hate certain characters we aren't stuck with them.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 13 février 2010 - 03:07 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Leliana might have some desire for or us material things, LIKE ALL PEOPLE (so you are even slamming yourself with this pathetic reason)

My my, how well you know me for someone I've never met. Oh, wait, no you don't.

Are you claiming to have no material desires?

You appear to have at least a computer, an internet connection, and a copy of Dragon Age: Origins. All of which are material goods and services.

Ahisgewaya wrote...
You might want to see if you yourself don't have the same problem she does.

You're accusing him of racism against elves? Cause five seconds ago you thrrw a hissy because he said you have material desires.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 février 2010 - 03:18 .

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Leliana might have some desire for or us material things, LIKE ALL PEOPLE (so you are even slamming yourself with this pathetic reason)

My my, how well you know me for someone I've never met. Oh, wait, no you don't.
These are the sort of value judgement I expect from Leliana, so I'm not at all surprised you like her so much.
She can be shocked when you tell her she's racist all that she wants. It doesn't chnge the fact that she just said something incredibly racist. ANd if you don't think what she said is incredibly racist, well, then I really don't care what you have to say about the matter. You might want to see if you yourself don't have the same problem she does.

Do you wear clothes?  Do you buy material goods?  Do you have any luxury items... stupid question, you have a computer and a gaming console at least.  So yes, you are materialistic to the extent that Leliana is.  So my analysis is correct.  Next time think before you speak... or in this case type on a luxury item that belies your materialistic bent.

And I never said she didn't say something racist.  I said it can be construed as such or as borderline.  I personally think it crosses the line just a tad.  But she herself is not racist as evidenced by the fact that she doesn't actually hate or wish to descriminate against anyone.

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

And I never said she didn't say something racist.  I said it can be construed as such or as borderline.  I personally think it crosses the line just a tad.  But she herself is not racist as evidenced by the fact that she doesn't actually hate or wish to descriminate against anyone.

Ah, I see. You think what she said crosses the line JUST A TAD.
It makes perfect sense why you like Leliana. Glad you found a soulmate. Too bad she's not real.

I do indeed own a computer. But if I was on a jopurney to save the world I wouldn't complain that I didn't happen to have a caomputer and copy of Dragon Age with me. THe same cannot be said of Lelian, who is on a journey to save the world and complains about not having pretty shoes.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 13 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

And I never said she didn't say something racist.  I said it can be construed as such or as borderline.  I personally think it crosses the line just a tad.  But she herself is not racist as evidenced by the fact that she doesn't actually hate or wish to descriminate against anyone.

Ah, I see. You think what she said crosses the line JUST A TAD.
It makes perfect sense why you like Leliana. Glad you found a soulmate. Too bad she's not real.

Just another troll... move along, nothing to see here.

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

And I never said she didn't say something racist.  I said it can be construed as such or as borderline.  I personally think it crosses the line just a tad.  But she herself is not racist as evidenced by the fact that she doesn't actually hate or wish to descriminate against anyone.

Ah, I see. You think what she said crosses the line JUST A TAD.
It makes perfect sense why you like Leliana. Glad you found a soulmate. Too bad she's not real.

Just another troll... move along, nothing to see here.

Yeah, I don't like your favorite character and think she's a racist. Therefore I'm a troll.
Truly you are a paragon of logic.

[Kabraxal]

No, you are a troll because you continually insinuate that I am racist and then proceed to the whole "she's not real you dork" line.



Yeah, that clearly demonstrates your willingness to actually debate.

[Maria Caliban]

Not just racist. But racist against a fantasy race.

[Kabraxal]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Not just racist. But racist against a fantasy race.

And here I thought that being continualy Dalish and loving the culture meant I was a loving individual... but this whole time I have been a racist who secretly wishes to molest and murder every elf in sight.  Why didn't anyone tell me this?!?

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, that clearly demonstrates your willingness to actually debate.

I don't have a willingness to debate. I already told you why I posted what I did, and it's not to debate with you.

[Kabraxal]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, that clearly demonstrates your willingness to actually debate.

I don't have a willingness to debate. I already told you why I posted what I did, and it's not to debate with you.

Then don't try to give a counterpoint argument that your reasons weren't false.  That invites debate. 

[Ahisgewaya]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Not just racist. But racist against a fantasy race.

And as I told you in another thread, this entire issue bespeaks of a very real issue which hits a little too close to home for me. Maybe I shouldn't play this game. I thought that when I first read about it, but it's a Bioware game and now that I've played it, quite an amazing one at that. It just makes me a lot angrier than I'm accustomed to games making me.

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

And here I thought that being continualy Dalish and loving the culture meant I was a loving individual... but this whole time I have been a racist who secretly wishes to molest and murder every elf in sight.  Why didn't anyone tell me this?!?

How exactly would loving one culture and exclusively playing as it mean in any way that you are a loving individual? This attitude is what I am referring to.

[Mass Fraud]

Stop being so sensitive Ahisgewaya, it's just a game.

Ones own opinion shouldn't bother yours. It's not like your going to change their mind or anything....

[Kabraxal]

That is as much proof of being a non racist as your pathetic reasoning that I am one simply because I thought Leliana's comment was only slightly racist. Clearly your reasoning skills need work.

[Ahisgewaya]

Mass Fraud wrote...

Stop being so sensitive Ahisgewaya, it's just a game.
Ones own opinion shouldn't bother yours. It's not like your going to change their mind or anything....

Very true and good advice. I probably just need some sleep.

[Ahisgewaya]

Kabraxal wrote...

That is as much proof of being a non racist as your pathetic reasoning that I am one simply because I thought Leliana's comment was only slightly racist. Clearly your reasoning skills need work.

Whatever you think. Good night.