28 réponses à ce sujet

[GCreature]

 I'm just not finding him useful on anything higher than Veteran. Obviously his barrier, incendiary rounds and shotgun build him up to be a close range fighter, but why take him over Grunt?

Grunt has the same up-close and personnel abilities, has a +50% passive health upgrade, the claymore (and he's an AI, so the limited ammo isn't a problem) and has an Assault Rifle for long range (The battle rifle works brilliantly for that). The only real difference seems to be pull and concussive shot, but 9/10 if you use either on a vulnerable enemy you'll kill 'em before they're back in the fight. I use pull all the time on S/B/A enemies with my Adept, as you can arc it around cover to stun them, but party members can't do that.

I suppose there's nothing stopping you from taking both, but if I'm taking another close range fighter, I'd prefer someone who's bringing something different to the party. Tali in particular works pretty well if she uses the combat drone to distract an enemy, then takes him apart with the shotgun.

Hell, on my last playthrough I edited Jacob to use assault rifles and equipped him to use the Revenant, you do after all get chars with the other bonus weapons. Sure it was a little powerful, but no more so than Legion with the widowmaker, or Grunt with the claymore. it also made him a little bit more unique than the rest of the gang.

So.... The real question is, am I missing anything? Is there some secret to using him? IMO, Miranda is great simply because of having warp and overload, Jacob should've got the passive squad skill.

[Jaekahn]

Well what class are you using? Jacob's role focuses on Biotic combat, specifically helping you out with crowd control. If you play a heavy hitter such as Soldier and Infiltrator, then he's not given the ability to use his biotics all that much. I found him quite useful on my Engineer, usually running with Miranda and Jacob. The idea is to get Squad Incinerary ammo in order to boost your weapon damage. My Engineer focuses on stripping the target's armor and shield, then I would set up a warp explosion combination with Jacob's Pull and Miranda's Warp. I found this to be very effective early on vs tech and even against the collectors. Once you complete his Loyalty, he has a better chance of surviving since he gets Barrier.



In other words, he can be fairly useful for an Sentinel and Engineer, quite possibly a Vanguard as well. If you're playing an Adept, I would bring Mordin for organic dominant missions (Area Incinerate is very powerful), as well as Miranda in order to set up warp explosion with you. Depending on your sniper rifle, it may also be useful to take Garrus and Zaeed with you. I saw a video where the Garrus and Zaeed had the M-29 rifle and dominated the field with damage.

[rumination888]

Yea, Jacob got shafted. Bland personality and completely overshadowed by Grunt in combat. Would've been better if Jacob got Disrupter Ammo so his role would be different.

[GCreature]

Jaekahn wrote...

Well what class are you using? Jacob's role focuses on Biotic combat, specifically helping you out with crowd control. If you play a heavy hitter such as Soldier and Infiltrator, then he's not given the ability to use his biotics all that much. I found him quite useful on my Engineer, usually running with Miranda and Jacob. The idea is to get Squad Incinerary ammo in order to boost your weapon damage. My Engineer focuses on stripping the target's armor and shield, then I would set up a warp explosion combination with Jacob's Pull and Miranda's Warp. I found this to be very effective early on vs tech and even against the collectors. Once you complete his Loyalty, he has a better chance of surviving since he gets Barrier.

In other words, he can be fairly useful for an Sentinel and Engineer, quite possibly a Vanguard as well. If you're playing an Adept, I would bring Mordin for organic dominant missions (Area Incinerate is very powerful), as well as Miranda in order to set up warp explosion with you. Depending on your sniper rifle, it may also be useful to take Garrus and Zaeed with you. I saw a video where the Garrus and Zaeed had the M-29 rifle and dominated the field with damage.

I've completed the game a Soldier and an Infiltrator, also just started with a VG (Hardcore for Soldier, Insanity for the others). I've also used the save editor to play around with various builds on later levels, mostly Adept and VG.

I've not tried an Engineer or a Sentinel, but if my Shepard/Other squaddie is built around AoE debuffing defences, then ordering grunt to use AoE Concussive shot (Blast, was it?) would be just as useful as Pull Field? Especially as you'd have enough time to deploy an AoE Cryo Blast or Inferno. 

 Grunt also gets Inferno/Squad Incendiary ammo.

I do agree about taking another sniper though, but again I think that'd work better with Zaeed/legion/Garrus and the almost invincible Grunt.

*Edited for GRAMMARZ and I forgot to say thanks for your input, food for thought*

Modifié par GCreature, 10 février 2010 - 02:48 .

[matt654321]

Jacob was supposed to be a mini-Vanguard. Problem is, Vanguards are good mostly due to Charge. Jacob gets left with the fairly useless parts of a Vanguard.



I kinda wish they gave him Shockwave, but I don't know if that would save him.

[GCreature]

rumination888 wrote...

Yea, Jacob got shafted. Bland personality and completely overshadowed by Grunt in combat. Would've been better if Jacob got Disrupter Ammo so his role would be different.

Yeah, disruptor would be nice, just something unique. 

Or maybe if his Barrier had a GSB style boost. Like if the improved version improved the stun time when you use a biotic power against a protected enemy.

[GCreature]

matt654321 wrote...

Jacob was supposed to be a mini-Vanguard. Problem is, Vanguards are good mostly due to Charge. Jacob gets left with the fairly useless parts of a Vanguard.

I kinda wish they gave him Shockwave, but I don't know if that would save him.

Perhaps, but then Jack would lose out to Jacob imo. Jacob has Barrier, also uses shotguns and has Incendiary Ammo.

[Jaekahn]

GCreature wrote...

Jaekahn wrote...

Well what class are you using? Jacob's role focuses on Biotic combat, specifically helping you out with crowd control. If you play a heavy hitter such as Soldier and Infiltrator, then he's not given the ability to use his biotics all that much. I found him quite useful on my Engineer, usually running with Miranda and Jacob. The idea is to get Squad Incinerary ammo in order to boost your weapon damage. My Engineer focuses on stripping the target's armor and shield, then I would set up a warp explosion combination with Jacob's Pull and Miranda's Warp. I found this to be very effective early on vs tech and even against the collectors. Once you complete his Loyalty, he has a better chance of surviving since he gets Barrier.

In other words, he can be fairly useful for an Sentinel and Engineer, quite possibly a Vanguard as well. If you're playing an Adept, I would bring Mordin for organic dominant missions (Area Incinerate is very powerful), as well as Miranda in order to set up warp explosion with you. Depending on your sniper rifle, it may also be useful to take Garrus and Zaeed with you. I saw a video where the Garrus and Zaeed had the M-29 rifle and dominated the field with damage.

I've completed the game a Soldier and an Infiltrator, also just started with a VG (Hardcore for Soldier, Insanity for the others). I've also used the save editor to play around with various builds on later levels, mostly Adept and VG.

I've not tried an Engineer or a Sentinel, but if my Shepard/Other squaddie is built around AoE debuffing defences, then ordering grunt to use AoE Concussive shot (Blast, was it?) would be just as useful as Pull Field? Especially as you'd have enough time to deploy an AoE Cryo Blast or Inferno. 

 Grunt also gets Inferno/Squad Incendiary ammo.

I do agree about taking another sniper though, but again I think that'd work better with Zaeed/legion/Garrus and the almost invincible Grunt.

*Edited for GRAMMARZ and I forgot to say thanks for your input, food for thought*

Grunt indeed has a better individual role and I also agree that grunt is probably one of the best squad mates for an insanity run. I do believe that Jacob is inferior to the other squad members, I was simply noting some uses for him.
 
However, despite Grunt's superiority over Jacob, I do believe Jacob has a few advantages over Grunt. One is his ability to crowd control. For example, because I specialize in Overload and Incinerate over Cryo, I, personally, lack in crowd control. My drone does its job, but I am inferior to the other spec option for an Engineer. I have the option to either bring Jacob, Jack, or Mordin to fill that role as a second crowd control. If I choose Miranda as my third with her warp and overload abilities, I think Jacob and his pull field will have an edge over Jack and Mordin, mainly for that pull field and incinerary ammo.

I'm not trying to say that Jacob's the wisest choice in insanity. Hell, I hardly used him after Horizon. I'm just trying to note some uses for him.

[Hoffburger]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[tangofish]

I just gave Jacob the new Cerberus shottie and took him to the IFF on insanity. With Inferno ammo and pull field he actually proved to be useful! Previously Grunt had the upper hand in this situation, but now that Jacob can use a shotgun that's ok against armour I think he actually is a better choice against Husks.

[GCreature]

Jaekahn wrote...

GCreature wrote...

Jaekahn wrote...

Well what class are you using? Jacob's role focuses on Biotic combat, specifically helping you out with crowd control. If you play a heavy hitter such as Soldier and Infiltrator, then he's not given the ability to use his biotics all that much. I found him quite useful on my Engineer, usually running with Miranda and Jacob. The idea is to get Squad Incinerary ammo in order to boost your weapon damage. My Engineer focuses on stripping the target's armor and shield, then I would set up a warp explosion combination with Jacob's Pull and Miranda's Warp. I found this to be very effective early on vs tech and even against the collectors. Once you complete his Loyalty, he has a better chance of surviving since he gets Barrier.

In other words, he can be fairly useful for an Sentinel and Engineer, quite possibly a Vanguard as well. If you're playing an Adept, I would bring Mordin for organic dominant missions (Area Incinerate is very powerful), as well as Miranda in order to set up warp explosion with you. Depending on your sniper rifle, it may also be useful to take Garrus and Zaeed with you. I saw a video where the Garrus and Zaeed had the M-29 rifle and dominated the field with damage.

I've completed the game a Soldier and an Infiltrator, also just started with a VG (Hardcore for Soldier, Insanity for the others). I've also used the save editor to play around with various builds on later levels, mostly Adept and VG.

I've not tried an Engineer or a Sentinel, but if my Shepard/Other squaddie is built around AoE debuffing defences, then ordering grunt to use AoE Concussive shot (Blast, was it?) would be just as useful as Pull Field? Especially as you'd have enough time to deploy an AoE Cryo Blast or Inferno. 

 Grunt also gets Inferno/Squad Incendiary ammo.

I do agree about taking another sniper though, but again I think that'd work better with Zaeed/legion/Garrus and the almost invincible Grunt.

*Edited for GRAMMARZ and I forgot to say thanks for your input, food for thought*

Grunt indeed has a better individual role and I also agree that grunt is probably one of the best squad mates for an insanity run. I do believe that Jacob is inferior to the other squad members, I was simply noting some uses for him.
 
However, despite Grunt's superiority over Jacob, I do believe Jacob has a few advantages over Grunt. One is his ability to crowd control. For example, because I specialize in Overload and Incinerate over Cryo, I, personally, lack in crowd control. My drone does its job, but I am inferior to the other spec option for an Engineer. I have the option to either bring Jacob, Jack, or Mordin to fill that role as a second crowd control. If I choose Miranda as my third with her warp and overload abilities, I think Jacob and his pull field will have an edge over Jack and Mordin, mainly for that pull field and incinerary ammo.

I'm not trying to say that Jacob's the wisest choice in insanity. Hell, I hardly used him after Horizon. I'm just trying to note some uses for him.

True, I guess not all party members aren't equal, however much I might want them to be.

[GCreature]

Hoffburger wrote...

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I laughed, I shouldn't have, but I did.

[GCreature]

tangofish wrote...

I just gave Jacob the new Cerberus shottie and took him to the IFF on insanity. With Inferno ammo and pull field he actually proved to be useful! Previously Grunt had the upper hand in this situation, but now that Jacob can use a shotgun that's ok against armour I think he actually is a better choice against Husks.

Nice, it might be worth taking him on Mordin's recruitment mission too.

[tangofish]

GCreature wrote...

tangofish wrote...

I just gave Jacob the new Cerberus shottie and took him to the IFF on insanity. With Inferno ammo and pull field he actually proved to be useful! Previously Grunt had the upper hand in this situation, but now that Jacob can use a shotgun that's ok against armour I think he actually is a better choice against Husks.

Nice, it might be worth taking him on Mordin's recruitment mission too.

I'd actually disagree with that point. Without barrier Jacob will just walk into bullets trying to get into range for his shotgun. Husks are one thing, Blue Suns and Blood Pack are another. Zaeed is vastly superior in the first act. Most enemies are either shielded or have armour, both of which he's strong against, and when paired with Miranda you can quickly burn through everything you face, regardless of your class.

As an above poster pointed out Jacob is a bit of a TBG, but he has his niche: Husk swarms.

[rumination888]

Grunt steamrolls through husk swarms. Literally.

[GCreature]

After thinking about it, I'm going to have him stick with the LMG, simply to make him stand out as a reasonably tough mid-range fighter, I'll just nerf it's stats.



It just seems that currently Grunt is better most of the time. If it's one of those moments that Jacob might be better, it's not by much due Grunt's Concussive Blast, Incendiary ammo and ridiculous constitution.

[Grand_Commander13]

The Pull on Jacob is really handy: sure you can strip an enemy's defense, but they're going to try to duck to cover and generally be pains to hit. So Pull them and they can't hide. Also functions as an improved Concussive Shot on enemies moving towards you.

[WillieStyle]

The only party member I find capable of surviving while wielding a shotgun is Grunt.

Jacob's spot is on the bench.



He's really useful early on though as you can max out Incindiery Ammo eary on for the Krogen and Vorcha heavy quests on Omega. After that though, he's basically useless.

[The_mango55]

I actually made a thread about this
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/913731

Jacob is the most useless member of the squad (except Tali vs organics).

[CmdrFenix83]

Wait, people use Jacob past Freedom's Progress other than his own loyalty mission? Hell I replace him with Zaeed immediately...

[GCreature]

Nah, I'd rate Tali higher, even if it is against organics. I mentioned it earlier, but it's amusing to get her to distract a nearby enemy with the drone, then shoot it in the back with a shotgun.



I used to think she was vastly inferior compared to legion (Widowmaker lolwut), but that's just because I was trying to use her in the same way, just stay way back and spam powers and snipe (with a pistol... fail..). The new shotgun also gives her a welcome boost.

[matt654321]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

The Pull on Jacob is really handy: sure you can strip an enemy's defense, but they're going to try to duck to cover and generally be pains to hit. So Pull them and they can't hide. Also functions as an improved Concussive Shot on enemies moving towards you.

Biotics for allies don't work the same way as they do for Shepard. You can't arc them - they go in a straight line from Shepard to the enemy and travel instantaneously.

[GCreature]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Wait, people use Jacob past Freedom's Progress other than his own loyalty mission? Hell I replace him with Zaeed immediately...

That's kind of the point. I want to use him past Freedom's Progress, it's just hard seeing a reason to use him as standard.

[GCreature]

matt654321 wrote...

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

The Pull on Jacob is really handy: sure you can strip an enemy's defense, but they're going to try to duck to cover and generally be pains to hit. So Pull them and they can't hide. Also functions as an improved Concussive Shot on enemies moving towards you.

Biotics for allies don't work the same way as they do for Shepard. You can't arc them - they go in a straight line from Shepard to the enemy and travel instantaneously.

Exactly, while concussive shot still has some homing abilities, although not as good as when Shepard uses it.

[Kajan451]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Wait, people use Jacob past Freedom's Progress other than his own loyalty mission? Hell I replace him with Zaeed immediately...

I don't and i don't want to. Even another weapon set wouldn't give him anything useful. His Abilities are plain and simple a waste of efford. I'd rather take Tali with me and her combat drone against Organics as i would take Jacob along.

I like the character, its fun talking to him (as male shepard) and building a "buddy buddy" thing between soldiers there. I can see him becoming as close with shepard as Garrus is... but i really don't see any use for him on the battlefield. Not with his skills. Pull on Squadmembers is a waste of time about 90% of the time... his loyality power is plain useless since i don't have squadmates standing out in the open for long... and the special ammo? Well... if i need that one i take Grunt with me. Grunt at least does charge enemies when they get close and doesn't play sitting duck. Even more so.. Grunt gets the claymore.

And when i feel like i need crowd control with shotguns i take jack. She at least gets a useful special ammunition. I find the fire ammunition quite useless. Yes, it makes people step from cover to put out flames when they get hit by a shot. Which can be nice.. and its also good against armor. But i rather take Garrus along (sniper+assault) and outfit him to have Squad AP as that i take Jacob or Grunt along for the fire one. If there would be powers to... don't know.. coat the enemy in oil or something...  if there would be barrels you can shoot to coat some area in oil... and then use fire on it to make them explode. Or have those gastanks explode even harder.

I just don't see the point. And i don't like taking Grunt along because he doesn't fit behind most covers. Even behind those he is usually to tall to be hiding behind them.

Maybe its just my playstyle and my love to hug cover as much as possible...  but in my list of useful Shotgun Characters it looks like this:

Tali (A well placed Drone forces a couple of enemies out of their cover to fight the drone in their backs, making that thing one of the best powers to me - i just wish she would have gotten Techarmor as Loyality power - the absorber is nice... but you know..)
Jack (she is small enough to hide behind covers and gets warp ammo which works great against collectors - allowing me to pick another bonus power)
Grunt (If he wouldn't be that tall, he would be on the same level with Jack)
Jacob (I don't find any reason to pick him above one of the others. And my 2nd Teammate always has some long range powers)

And if i would say.. give jacob instead of his gun a rifle.. having shotgun and assult rifle for example.. he would just loose to Samara, Zaeed and Garrus.

I don't need Jacob on my teams. I like him on the ship though (unlike the Drell.. he is just useless on all accounts - but he dies anyway.. so why bother?)