90 réponses à ce sujet

[Agamemnon2589]

OP, I love you.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

finnithe wrote...

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Yes, feedback is worthless! DON'T LISTEN TO FEEDBACK BIOWARE!

you mean like when the first mass effect came out, and everyone complained about the MAKO and a complicated inventory system, and now everyone wants it again?


player feedback is the kryptonite of game sequels, i've seen it ruin good games before.

gears of war would be one of them.

I sort of understand some of the complaints because Bioware, instead of tweaking the systems, took them out altogether. They are adding the Hammerhead, which is a good example of a middle ground, but I don't think it will be integrated into the game very well. I like what Bioware did I just understand why some people are unhappy.

Of course, there are many others who are actually complaining for the worst reasons possible. They're not going to make Tali as a bisexual. Live with it.

i can respect why someone would be angry with the game changing, that is one of the most frustrating things with a game sequel to have it gutted and turned into a ugly remnant of its predeccesor because some "FPS action gamers" thought it was too boring.


but alot of the stuff the bioware community is asking for seems too demanding, especially through a patch or an update.

[ZennExile]

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.



Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.



Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

OP, I love you.

thank you, i truly do appreciate that, i wasn't sure if this thread was going to be worth the headache and the effort of responding to everyones counter-arguements, but if i'm saying what's on the minds of others, then i guess that makes it worth something.

[Yorick of the Damned]

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

Lets call the Whaaaambulance again.

Honestly, game company's aren't gods of nature that are extistentially perfect. They tried their best. Stop complaining and live with it. They tried their best with this game and it took them 3 years. Either like it or don't but don't whine about it here expecting to see sympathy. Bioware actually listened to our gripes over the first game and implimented changes. That's WAY more then other company's do. 

[SharpEdgeSoda]

Honestly, pointing that out solves nothing. This is a video game forum, everyone that has ever existed is full of bad ideas, and random demands and rage. You think this is bad? Try the Super Smash Bros Brawl forum after they announced 3rd party characters.

That forums became whatever circle of Hell they keep people with bad ideas in.

Nothing wrong with speculation, and bouncing ideas off OTHER people (key), but a lot of people think that there voice here always carries to the top. It doesn't. No one is going to implement your energy sword, melee class idea, sorry kid.

[ZennExile]

Yorick of the Damned wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

Lets call the Whaaaambulance again.

Honestly, game company's aren't gods of nature that are extistentially perfect. They tried their best. Stop complaining and live with it. They tried their best with this game and it took them 3 years. Either like it or don't but don't whine about it here expecting to see sympathy. Bioware actually listened to our gripes over the first game and implimented changes. That's WAY more then other company's do. 

Didn't you hear the Whaaambulance is equipped with troll spray now and you can't afford the hazmat suit because there is no open economy in ME2.  Just credit points that let you buy upgrades and useless crap...

[NvVanity]

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

20 more hours of DLC? Then the game is complete? I don't know what games your comparing ME2 to but ME2 is long compared to most other games out there and story wise better. It's already worth the 60 dollars. In fact it's worth the 70 dollars I paid for Collectors Edition.

[finnithe]

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

finnithe wrote...

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Yes, feedback is worthless! DON'T LISTEN TO FEEDBACK BIOWARE!

you mean like when the first mass effect came out, and everyone complained about the MAKO and a complicated inventory system, and now everyone wants it again?


player feedback is the kryptonite of game sequels, i've seen it ruin good games before.

gears of war would be one of them.

I sort of understand some of the complaints because Bioware, instead of tweaking the systems, took them out altogether. They are adding the Hammerhead, which is a good example of a middle ground, but I don't think it will be integrated into the game very well. I like what Bioware did I just understand why some people are unhappy.

Of course, there are many others who are actually complaining for the worst reasons possible. They're not going to make Tali as a bisexual. Live with it.

i can respect why someone would be angry with the game changing, that is one of the most frustrating things with a game sequel to have it gutted and turned into a ugly remnant of its predeccesor because some "FPS action gamers" thought it was too boring.


but alot of the stuff the bioware community is asking for seems too demanding, especially through a patch or an update.

I think generalizing that group as being FPS gamers is wrong. Hell, I have done 4 full runthroughs of KOTOR, 3 or more of KOTOR2, 2 of DA:O (the last being a 50-hour one just last month on Hard) and I still found the combat in ME1 to be boring. I always ended up with the same squad, depending on my class. In ME2, I actually switched up my squad several times during the game. ME1's combat was also broken. The so-called "unique" recharging ammo system is neither unique, nor is it a good one. Battlefront 1 and 2 both had a overheat-based ammo system for several of the weapons, and they both came out before ME1. I also hated how you could go through the entire game with just a pistol. ME1 might have been fun for some of you, but the gameplay was not acceptable.

In short, some of the changes in ME2 were very necessary. I don't agree with others, but some of the complaining is a classic example of "They Changed it so it Sucks".

[Yorick of the Damned]

Didn't you hear the Whaaambulance is equipped with troll spray now and you can't afford the hazmat suit because there is no open economy in ME2.  Just credit points that let you buy upgrades and useless crap...

Someone's angry

Credits mean jack in Mass Effect anyway. After your second playthrough with the first game you pretty much have Collosus X and everything else. In ME2 they focused on upgrades for you and your party members. That is MUCH better then having to scroll through a list of hundreds of armors and guns your never going to use and having to omni-gel things you might want to use while your in a battle.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

really? because from what i've heard of the first mass effect, it was just infested with bugs.

and also, the only game-breaking bug i've encountered would have to be the jack/miranda fight, where paragon options are always blacked out.

other than that, the game seems polished and fine to me.

[jerms510]

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

what games are you playing?? ME2 has BY FAR the least amount of bugs of any bioware game to date.

[finnithe]

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

really? because from what i've heard of the first mass effect, it was just infested with bugs.

and also, the only game-breaking bug i've encountered would have to be the jack/miranda fight, where paragon options are always blacked out.

other than that, the game seems polished and fine to me.

These guys should play Fallout 3 and Oblivion. It's just what happens when you make such a big game. There's bound to be some bugs in it.

[Agamemnon2589]

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

OP, I love you.

thank you, i truly do appreciate that, i wasn't sure if this thread was going to be worth the headache and the effort of responding to everyones counter-arguements, but if i'm saying what's on the minds of others, then i guess that makes it worth something.

No, seriously? I hate these people. I totally agree with you. I am sick and tired of people b*tching about the game, which was amazing. F*ck off and don't play it if you seriously don't like it that much.

[Yorick of the Damned]

jerms510 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

what games are you playing?? ME2 has BY FAR the least amount of bugs of any bioware game to date.

Especially when compared to Dragon Age's whole PC ram dump thing which makes the game almost unplayable.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

Honestly, pointing that out solves nothing. This is a video game forum, everyone that has ever existed is full of bad ideas, and random demands and rage. You think this is bad? Try the Super Smash Bros Brawl forum after they announced 3rd party characters.

That forums became whatever circle of Hell they keep people with bad ideas in.

Nothing wrong with speculation, and bouncing ideas off OTHER people (key), but a lot of people think that there voice here always carries to the top. It doesn't. No one is going to implement your energy sword, melee class idea, sorry kid.

the behemoth forums are enough for me to know what kind of **** ideas the gaming community likes to throw at developers, and how much praise the rest of the community will give them.

[Agamemnon2589]

jerms510 wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

what games are you playing?? ME2 has BY FAR the least amount of bugs of any bioware game to date.

Seriously...I encountered maybe three texture pop-ins in the ENTIRE game, and I only got glitched into a wall once in three freaking playthroughs. The final suicide mission is understandably stuttery in some parts - it is, after all, a mish-mash of a ton of different cinematics that the game has to put together based on the choices you've made. Seriously, where are the bugs?

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

finnithe wrote...

The_Awesome_Sloth wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

really? because from what i've heard of the first mass effect, it was just infested with bugs.

and also, the only game-breaking bug i've encountered would have to be the jack/miranda fight, where paragon options are always blacked out.

other than that, the game seems polished and fine to me.

These guys should play Fallout 3 and Oblivion. It's just what happens when you make such a big game. There's bound to be some bugs in it.

has anyone here ever been wandering around in the wasteland, and out of nowhere you start getting attacked by strange lines and squiggles coming of the geometry, and you have to restart the game because they are covering your camera and you can't see?

[BobbyTheI]

As somebody who has lurked on the BioWare forums since ME1, and am only now deciding to post a bit (mostly to do corny jokes, but hey), I'm of two minds on the subject.

On the one hand, my initial review of the game pointed out how I felt that ME2 was one giant, wet kiss to the fans, especially with all the minor references, cameos, and other things that showed how much BioWare pays attention to the forums and the fans.  Blasto, the refund guy, the turian/quarian conversation... none of that stuff would probably exist without the forums.  And yeah, neither would the Garrus and Tali romance paths, most likely.  Although some people may not think so, I think BioWare listens to the fans more than most other major video game companies out there.

So yeah, I think it's good that folks talk about stuff they'd like to see in ME3, because I think there's a good chance that somebody's going to pay attention.  Not that it's a guarantee you're going to see it, but it helps up the chances a little.

On the other hand... good GAWD, you people sometimes.  I've lost track of how many times I've come to one of these boards and seen three threads... on page 1... on the EXACT SAME TOPIC.  Now, don't get me wrong, there are fandoms that are a lot worse (glances back toward the dark abyss of hate that is the Fallout fandom), but honestly, I think there's a definite need to tone it down a little.

I may be wrong, but to me, I think one single well-reasoned post saying, "Here's something I didn't like about ME2, and here's some ways to improve" helps out a whole lot more than fifty posts saying, "OHMIGOD, Mass Effect is ruined FOREVER and I'll never buy another product by BioWare again unless things are changed to my EXACT specifications!"

No game's gonna be perfect. I don't think ME1 is perfect, and while I think ME2 is quite a bit better, I don't think it's perfect either. I don't even think Baldur's Gate II, which still ranks as perhaps my favorite game of all time, is perfect. But constructive criticism with a calm temperament helps a lot more to move us toward perfection than hysteria and anger.

That's my piece, I've said it, and I'll just go back to doing my 100th version of the same joke over at the CSI thread now.  

[ZennExile]

NvVanity wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

20 more hours of DLC? Then the game is complete? I don't know what games your comparing ME2 to but ME2 is long compared to most other games out there and story wise better. It's already worth the 60 dollars. In fact it's worth the 70 dollars I paid for Collectors Edition.

I don't know.  I tend to lean towards the practical myself and for $60 I can play an MMO every single day for 2  months.  For $70 3 months.  I expect single player experiences to compare to that in some manner if not exceed that.  Even as epic as ME2 is, it just doesn't meet the cost vrs entertainment achieved scale.  It just feels short of the mark in too many areas.

And before anyone jumps on the drool bib bandwagon, it should be obvious here that "some manner" allows for other aspects to compinsate for less "time played" like better graphics, deeper story elements, advanced gameplay mechanics etc..  If it's not obvious this will be here as a glaring reminder to think about things before you respond to them in case you are missing something that should be obvious but maybe isn't because you are distracted by something you do or don't like. 

[Yorick of the Damned]

BobbyTheI wrote...
I may be wrong, but to me, I think one single well-reasoned post saying, "Here's something I didn't like about ME2, and here's some ways to improve" helps out a whole lot more than fifty posts saying, "OHMIGOD, Mass Effect is ruined FOREVER and I'll never buy another product by BioWare again unless things are changed to my EXACT specifications!"

The last topic I saw that actually was a positive Mass Effect 2 review I replied "Finally a review that doesn't say ""OMG MASS EFFECT 2 SUCKS ASS. F*CK YOU BIOWARE""

Mass Effect 2 isn't perfect but it's a lot better then many, many things on the market. At least Bioware actually listens to their fans.

[Yorick of the Damned]

ZennExile wrote...

I don't know.  I tend to lean towards the practical myself and for $60 I can play an MMO every single day for 2  months.  For $70 3 months.  I expect single player experiences to compare to that in some manner if not exceed that.  Even as epic as ME2 is, it just doesn't meet the cost vrs entertainment achieved scale.  It just feels short of the mark in too many areas.

And before anyone jumps on the drool bib bandwagon, it should be obvious here that "some manner" allows for other aspects to compinsate for less "time played" like better graphics, deeper story elements, advanced gameplay mechanics etc..  If it's not obvious this will be here as a glaring reminder to think about things before you respond to them in case you are missing something that should be obvious but maybe isn't because you are distracted by something you do or don't like. 

If you don't like it, then don't play it. Sell it to someone who wants to play it. Don't **** and whine on Bioware forums expecting something to happen. It's just as simple as that. 

We don't have very much time on this Earth and spending it ****ing on the Bioware Social Network isn't really the highlight of our lives.

[The_Awesome_Sloth]

BobbyTheI wrote...

As somebody who has lurked on the BioWare forums since ME1, and am only now deciding to post a bit (mostly to do corny jokes, but hey), I'm of two minds on the subject.

On the one hand, my initial review of the game pointed out how I felt that ME2 was one giant, wet kiss to the fans, especially with all the minor references, cameos, and other things that showed how much BioWare pays attention to the forums and the fans.  Blasto, the refund guy, the turian/quarian conversation... none of that stuff would probably exist without the forums.  And yeah, neither would the Garrus and Tali romance paths, most likely.  Although some people may not think so, I think BioWare listens to the fans more than most other major video game companies out there.

So yeah, I think it's good that folks talk about stuff they'd like to see in ME3, because I think there's a good chance that somebody's going to pay attention.  Not that it's a guarantee you're going to see it, but it helps up the chances a little.

On the other hand... good GAWD, you people sometimes.  I've lost track of how many times I've come to one of these boards and seen three threads... on page 1... on the EXACT SAME TOPIC.  Now, don't get me wrong, there are fandoms that are a lot worse (glances back toward the dark abyss of hate that is the Fallout fandom), but honestly, I think there's a definite need to tone it down a little.

I may be wrong, but to me, I think one single well-reasoned post saying, "Here's something I didn't like about ME2, and here's some ways to improve" helps out a whole lot more than fifty posts saying, "OHMIGOD, Mass Effect is ruined FOREVER and I'll never buy another product by BioWare again unless things are changed to my EXACT specifications!"

No game's gonna be perfect. I don't think ME1 is perfect, and while I think ME2 is quite a bit better, I don't think it's perfect either. I don't even think Baldur's Gate II, which still ranks as perhaps my favorite game of all time, is perfect. But constructive criticism with a calm temperament helps a lot more to move us toward perfection than hysteria and anger.

That's my piece, I've said it, and I'll just go back to doing my 100th version of the same joke over at the CSI thread now.  

i don't know, some of the suggestions, like melee weapons, just seem terrible.

and it scares me that it could make it into mass effect 3.

[KPnuts123]

OP I agree with you about the way the forums are at the moment. It just seems that a lot of people who are complaining about the game have looked back on ME1 with a pair of rose tinted glasses on and they seem to forget that the community etc are the ones who wanted the Mako and Inventory system gone.



Also I know what you mean about Wandering through the wasteland even on 360 it was awful at times and I lost count of the amount of times I had to reload due to the screen going funny or my character glitching somewhere and not being able to get out of it.



I've played through ME2 once and am on a second playthrough an din all that time I've had one glitch. Again this was on 360.



I respect the right of people to have an opinion but can those that are for whatever reason unhappy with the game respect my opinion when I say that to me the game is while not perfect (and I do admit this) a great game to play.

[Mak89]

ZennExile wrote...

If we get about 20 more solid hours of DLC and story to compliment it, beyond this current story, it'll have been worth the $60. Otherwise people have a right to feel slighted. If they just tack on DLC that is part of the main arc it will just be seen as a gimmick to make up for an unfinished game. And rightfully so.

Bioware built a reputation on "Complete and Polished" games. It's a HUGE part of their design theory. Do it right the first time and make it fuXin EPIC. That is what Bioware has always done. ME2 is epic. But it's not finished or even remotely as bug free as previous titles have been. The entire experience feels rushed because the development was obviously rushed.

Bioware fans expect more from a company that depends on it's "Do it Right the First Time" reputation.

20 more hours of dlc? Are you out of your mind? Please enlighten me, how was ME2 unfinished? And I haven't come across ONE glitch yet. So tell me what was so obviously rushed?