270 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I prefer the ME 2 model of unique armor, clothing, and design to the Dragon Age: Origins model of using the same bodies and armors as that of regular NPCs and the PC. Morrigan managed to get her ‘Morrigan specific’ outfit, and I’d have like to see the same for Leliana, Sten, Alistair, etc.

[Abriael_CG]

I prefer companions to actually be ABLE to wear armor, instead of wearing always the same clothes all the time (or a single lame just recolored version). God forbid we get a Dragon Age in which people always wear the same clothes like they're glued to their pixel skin.



In this aspect ME2 is definitely *not* the example to follow.

[AngryFrozenWater]

As long as DA doesn't end up with us being unable to select what the characters wear then I am OK with that. But if I want Morrigan in heavy armor (even if it is a stupid idea) then I should be able to do that as long as she has the proper stats and/or class.

I absolutely hate the fact that I cannot give the ME2 crew the armor that I want them to have. The ME2 system is a limitation. Take Miranda as an example. She must have (what someone on the ME2 forums called) "the best hair gel in the galaxy" to keep her hair in place in a vacuum.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 10 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[flem1]

Her hair is genetically engineered to be perfect, too.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Samara!

Edit: Sorry... That was silly. Impulsive.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 10 février 2010 - 06:31 .

[Merci357]

Well, Mass Effect 2 models have better bodies, are better animated, right body proportions (well, maybe not "right", but looks more natural in my eyes, smaller hands, smaller breasts), and at least the companions (plus some main NPCs, think Aria) have very unique clothings and facial features, so yes, I'd agree here. There is a lot to improve. But, to honest, wouldn't it be more fair to compare Dragon Age to Mass Effect, not ME2?

This door swings both ways - just look at the limited options to create a custom character in Mass Effect 2 - and compare to DA:O. While I prefer the aesthetics of my ME2 companions, I'd take my DA PC over my Shepards anyday. And then again, create a character in Age of Conan, even DA could add much much more - not only sliders for every facial feature, but also the whole body.

However, I'm curious - is there any exchange between the different teams of BioWare about these matters, about design and art choices at all?

Modifié par Merci357, 10 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[ponozsticka]

It is a strange perfection then

Nevertheless, I like DA models more for several reasons. Both games have outstanding graphic, thus in both game companions seem lively to me. But, as for the ME2 models I prefer to change cloths to my companions...hygiene maniac .)

[Abriael_CG]

Merci357 wrote...
 and at least the companions (plus some main NPCs, think Aria) have very unique clothings and facial features,

Umh, actually the human facial features in ME2 are all very similar, unless you're talking about aliens, and well, DA doesn't have aliens. As for their clothing, yes, it's unique, and in the most literal sense, meaning that they wear ONLY that. It's lame, and a BIG step back compared to ME, that was much better in that field.

Also, the expressiveness of companions in DA is much more refined, expecially on humans. Bioware simply cut a tons of corners on human models in ME and ME2.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 10 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[AlanC9]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Morrigan managed to get her ‘Morrigan specific’ outfit, 

Did you actually leave her in it?

[hexaligned]

What exactly do you gain by this? (besides money saved on development) You have the option to leave them in one "outfit" for the entire game already if that's the most important thing to you. Why take the option away from someone who dosen't want to see their warrior running around in a V neck leotard for 80 hours of gameplay.

[Sloth Of Doom]

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with most of the people here so far; Although the ME2 outfits looked good, it was somewhat annoying not to be able to change them at all.

[Maria Caliban]

**double post**

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[Maria Caliban]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Morrigan managed to get her ‘Morrigan specific’ outfit, 

Did you actually leave her in it?

Yes, and then later the upgraded version of it.

Merci357 wrote...

But, to honest, wouldn't it be more fair to compare Dragon Age to Mass Effect, not ME2?

No.

relhart wrote...

What exactly do you gain by this?

Unique designs for companions. Jack looked like Jack throughout the game while Samara looked like Samara. Jack’s boob strap and full-body tattoos fit her; you couldn’t have that if everything she wore had to be something Samara, Miranda, and FemShep could wear and vis-a-versa.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[Merci357]

Abriael_CG wrote...
Umh, actually the human facial features in ME2 are all very similar, unless you're talking about aliens, and well, DA doesn't have aliens. As for their clothing, yes, it's unique, and in the most literal sense, meaning that they wear ONLY that. It's lame, and a BIG step back compared to ME, that was much better in that field.

Hm, Zaeed similar to Jacob, Miranda similar to Jack? That's in my opinion a much larger difference then anything seen in Dragon Age, but then again, we are talking about opinions, not facts - and of course you are right, the aliens mix the picture, much more then the "difference" between elfes and humans.. 
On second thought, you are right, facial expressions Dragon Age wins, body language is ME2 way better. Haven't played Mass Effect in a few days, so I startet both games up, and made a back to back comparison.

I'd love to equip/customize armor for ME2 companions (while retaining the "uniqueness") like I could for Shepards - in that regard ME2 is dumbed down for the mainstream audience, I guess.

Modifié par Merci357, 10 février 2010 - 06:49 .

[Abriael_CG]

Merci357 wrote...
Hm, Zaeed similar to Jacob, Miranda similar to Jack? That's in my opinion a much larger difference then anything seen in Dragon Age

Zaeed has a different skin and a normal map to simulate the scars but feature-wise he isn't very different from the other humans you see all over the place. Miranda and Jacob are pretty generic, features-wise.

Jack is the only one that has some uniqueness in her model (and i don't mean the tattoos, but the facial features per-se), almost like she was designed by a different team.

mix the picture, much more then the "difference" between elfes and humans.. 

That's if one likes xenomorphs, thank goodness we don't have them in DA:O, they wouldn't be very appropriate.

Oghren has a very well designed face, that probably trumps every single companion shown in ME and ME2, sten is also very well designed. Mix it with their expressiveness (or intentional lack of thereof, which is often even harder to pull) and there's simply no comparison.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 10 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[Seagloom]

I don't care either way. That said, I prefer Mass Effect 2's approach. Having party members in one outfit all game is old hat to me after years of JRPGs. I shudder to think of how goofy some equipment in those games would look if they were actually represented visually on a character.

My issue with Dragon Age is that it's painfully obvious everyone is a disembodied head attached to a mannequin. Okay, maybe not that obvious, but it's hard not to notice when you throw Chasind Robes on any female and watch her breast size expand or when my character and Leliana both wear the same armor and look like twins at a distance down to the last pixel.

Unique outfits visually reinforces a party member's personality. Besides, it isn't as if most of these armors are realistic to begin with. Suspension of belief is already required. Having everyone stick to one outfit doesn't take much more IMO.

Modifié par Seagloom, 10 février 2010 - 06:55 .

[Abriael_CG]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Unique designs for companions. Jack looked like Jack throughout the game while Samara looked like Samara. Jack’s boob strap and full-body tattoos fit her; you couldn’t have that if everything she wore had to be something Samara, Miranda, and FemShep could wear and vis-a-versa.

And that's exactly the problem. They looked like they had only one set of clothing through the entire game, which in an RPG is lame. Oh wait.. i said RPG... ME2 didn't have much of an RPG indeed...

Even JRPGs after years and years of "same clothes for the whole duration of the game" are finally looking into visual itemization, Bioware on the other end made a very lame U -turn right into the stone age with ME2

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 10 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[hexaligned]

Agreed, I prefer complexity in all aspects of character custimization (in all aspect of everything really). . The entire system in ME2 came across as dull and unimaginative to me. Not that DAO is super complex or anything, but I would for sure be against anything that dumbed it down even more.

[Kalfear]

Abriael_CG wrote...

I prefer companions to actually be ABLE to wear armor, instead of wearing always the same clothes all the time (or a single lame just recolored version). God forbid we get a Dragon Age in which people always wear the same clothes like they're glued to their pixel skin.

In this aspect ME2 is definitely *not* the example to follow.

QFT

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Unique designs for companions. Jack looked like Jack throughout the game while Samara looked like Samara. Jack’s boob strap and full-body tattoos fit her; you couldn’t have that if everything she wore had to be something Samara, Miranda, and FemShep could wear and vis-a-versa.

And that's exactly the problem. They looked like they had only one set of clothing through the entire game, which in an RPG is lame. Oh wait.. i said RPG... ME2 didn't have much of an RPG indeed...

Even JRPGs after years and years of "same clothes for the whole duration of the game" are finally looking into visual itemization, Bioware on the other end made a very lame U -turn right into the stone age with ME2

Agreed, and I did enjoy ME2 for what it is, a solid cover shooter ala gears of war with somewhat of a deeper story than what you're used to with shooters. That being said though it wasn't anywhere near as deep of an RPG as the first game was and I agree that it took alot of steps backwards.

[AlanC9]

Seagloom wrote...

..., but it's hard not to notice when you throw Chasind Robes on any female and watch her breast size expand 

Yeah, the Chasind Robes are a particular offender.

I didn't so much mind getting off the item treadmill in ME2; I've never really liked how CRPGs are always about the stuff. I'm not sure if DA would have been better off with less tiers of stuff. But in practice there aren't really very many choices to make about equipment -- there's usually a right answer, and often it's pretty obvious.

[Maria Caliban]

Abriael_CG wrote...

They looked like they had only one set of clothing through the entire game, which in an RPG is lame.

I didn't find it lame. For me, companions are an important part of RPGs, and unique designs and abilities reinforce their personality. The ability for the PC to be able to select different clothing is important because it's a form of customization.

That said, in DA, I spent 75% of the game in the same two armor sets (Blood Dragon and Legion of the Dead), which made it look like I only had two sets of clothing.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

They looked like they had only one set of clothing through the entire game, which in an RPG is lame.

I didn't find it lame. For me, companions are an important part of RPGs, and unique designs and abilities reinforce their personality. The ability for the PC to be able to select different clothing is important because it's a form of customization.

That said, in DA, I spent 75% of the game in the same two armor sets (Blood Dragon and Legion of the Dead), which made it look like I only had two sets of clothing.

Thats not really a fair assesment, there were plenty more choices in DA than just Blood Dragon or Legion armor. Sophia's armor from Watchers isn't half bad, nor is the upgraded drake skin, or the king's set from RTO just as a few examples.

In ME2 you're not even picking different clothing really, ooo I can put my companions in a black version or their normal color varient of whats esentially the same outfit. Yeah lot of choice there.

[Abriael_CG]

.

Maria Caliban wrote.. I didn't find it lame. For me, companions are an important part of RPGs, and unique designs and abilities reinforce their personality. The ability for the PC to be able to select different clothing is important because it's a form of customization.

Interesting, since the companions in ME definitely lack in the uniqueness of their abilities, they're easily interchangeable with one another. Not that it's hard to look the same given that each companion has 4 abilities total to begin with (another lame trait).

There's no need to reinforce a companion's personality having him wear the same lame piece of clothing through the whole game, unless the companion has NO personality, which is indeed true for a couple companions in ME2 (Jacob comes to mind). On the other end, in DA:O their personality is perfectly designed by her extensive dialogue (as oppposed to ME2's limited options) and their facial expressiveness.

That said, in DA, I spent 75% of the game in the same two armor sets (Blood Dragon and Legion of the Dead), which made it look like I only had two sets of clothing.

Then I'm afraid you didn't explore the game really well. There are quite a lot of sets of massive armor around, and actually those two are the worst both looks and stat-wise.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 10 février 2010 - 07:27 .

[Seagloom]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yeah, the Chasind Robes are a particular offender.

I didn't so much mind getting off the item treadmill in ME2; I've never really liked how CRPGs are always about the stuff. I'm not sure if DA would have been better off with less tiers of stuff. But in practice there aren't really very many choices to make about equipment -- there's usually a right answer, and often it's pretty obvious.

Less tiers might have worked out for me. I agree in that it was obvious what was worth wearing throughout. My issue with DA's armors is most of them are junk to begin with. Alistair, for example, usually stays in the same splintmail he joins up with until I get him Warden Commander armor as a placeholder. From there he leaps once more to Knight Commander's Plate or some other massive set depending on the needs of my PC. That's how it was with the entire party in DA. It was a mad rush to get tier 6 or 7 equipment; some of which was available so early I felt no need to spend gold on intermediate gear. As Maria posted upthread from me, I'd end up seeing the same few armor sets anyway. Not that there was much visual variation with all the repaints of what models there were.

Given that and what I wrote in my last post, it's no wonder I find ME2's approach visually appealing in comparison.